Advice & Help Needed!! "Purple Stems" (Clones)

Alright Folks, i've been having a major issue recently and with all my experience i can't figure out what's going wrong... I've been growing for 6 years now with good results all the time, different places and different setups. Tried DWC, Rockwool, Promix & Coco and never had an issue.

Now back to the problem: So far i got 5 different Batches of clones, each batch from a different place, And every batch was a different strain. ( I din't stick to 1 strain to figure out whether it's a clone issue or something else). And obviously the problem is on my side....

Every time i get new clones, i transplant them in half gallon pots filled with Coco, and water them at 400ppm.
What happens next is the following: After 3 days, all the stems of the clones turn completely purple followed by stunted Growth, eventually they end up growing up but it's not the kind of Veg a grower is looking for. After one month of Veg, my trees end up being 1 foot tall, pretty bushy and with small fan leaves.

I just don't know what's going on really...

Details:
Veg Room Size: 6X9X8
AC: 12000BTU Portable
Water: RO (Growonix 200Gal/day RO)
Nutrients used: House & Garden Coco A+B, Root Excel, Calmag & Great White.
Medium Used: House & Garden Coco (also Tried Canna Coco & Botanicare Aeration Coco, again with Shitty Results)
Room Temperature: Lowest 74, Highest 80
Fans: A Small rotating fan to create a Gentle breeze for the Babies
Humidity: Lowest 45, Highest 65
Fresh Air: Whenever the AC is cooling the room, it sucks air from the outside (the AC turns on for a minute every 5 to 6 minutes, so i have fresh air coming in the room for 1 min every 5 to 6 minutes).
Pests & Diseases: None, I keep my room very clean. Every time, before getting my new clones in the room, i wash everything with Bleach, spray pesticides and use a can of doktor doom to get rid of flies if there are any.
Lights: i use T5s, currently 1 foot away from the clones, Tried getting the lights closer with a previous batch and farther with another, didn't make any difference.
PH: i Adjust my PH at 6.0 as House and Garden Recommends, Tried to start with 5.5 the previous batch, but no luck.
Water Temp: 67-68

I've had my clones in the half gallon pots for 3 days now, and the coco almost seems to be as wet as the first day that i watered.

What the hell is going on? Any suggestions?
Thanks In Advance.

Sounds normal to me. I always expect the first 2-3 weeks for the plants to be building their roots. Same with the watering, I almost always experience some times when they slow down drinking, usually surrounding some type of stress(generally caused by me).

Purple stems also seem normal, I grow almost exclusively from clones. It can be a sign of a deficiency, but I wouldn't worry about it early in veg from clones, at least I don't.

I was gonna mention i probably wouldnt start at 400ppm

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Alright guys, today is the 4th day for my clones, they started yellowing a little bit and the leaves are getting wilted... Anything? anyone? I wish I took some photos yesterday, nonetheless i'll post some pix when i get home tonight! Peace!

clones always look like shit for a good week then perk right back up. i have always seen purple stems throughout growing, some because it was genetics and some i couldnt quite figure out such as yourself. The guy at the local hydro shop here is pretty knowledgeable and helps all his buddies with their grows. He says that most commonly its caused by PH imbalance. I know you say you are ph'ing your water to 5.5. and 6.0. You normally want to stick to 6.0-6.5 in soil.. i dono about coco though. Isnt coco more acidic? there for you might want to balance your water at 6.5... thats just a suggestion. I have no idea of the actual problem myself either.

My mother plant had purple stems. My buddies didnt. We just used tap water for a straight month without balancing the ph. I cloned both mothers... the clones from my plant has greener stems now. The clones from my buddies plant are purple now... and ive been PH'ing the water for the clones. NO FUCKING CLUE hahaha! And its said normally obviously to go easy on the nutes with the babies but its also all about reading your plants. mine are a week or so old and i gave them a full dose of a bunch of shit and they are doing amazing. For example I used voodoo juice at full strength on week old clones. Voodoo juice ive had recommended to me so many times to be very careful with it also in flower... when they should be stronger to handle it and yet they took it at full dose so early.

Everything I read about coco is that it should be treated just like hydro, so your ph SHOULD be right on.

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As long as the medium is most while the clones are rooting that's what matters most. Remember your clones have little or no roots to uptake water and nutrients in the early stages so you really don't need that much ppm until you start to see some real new growth. Your clones will however benefit from either humidity domes or just plain old misting by hand, because they are absorbing moisture through there existing leaves for the most part that early on. I'm thinking even though you medium is wet, your clones just start off a bit dehydrated due to lack of roots. Either way, a 1 foot bush at 30 days past cutting is totally fine.

Thanks for the replies guys, Much Appreciated!
I made some adjustments yesterday night, raised my T5 about 3 feet above the clones, set the AC temp to 79 & sprayed the clones with some REVIVE, and this morning when i woke up, I saw a major difference, the babies picked up and they're doing much better, i guess i was stressing them with the light by keeping it quiet close to them.

Another point: a friend of mine recommended watering the newly transplanted clones with a small cup the first day (so that it dried up within 2 days or 3 max), which made sense, since there are no roots in the pot and there's no need to water the whole half gallon pot. if the water is staying in the medium for a week, then you'r risking a PH Fluctuation which could lead to a bad Veg Start.

CHEERS!

Your problem was NOT the T5, bring that sucker back down to your plants once you feel confident you have developed roots.

Greenlikemoney is absolutely correct your lights are now way to far away, likely the REVIVE/extra humidity around the leaves from, is what helped your clone, lower those babies back down and your biz.

Wolfheart - I'm having the exact same problem. Been growing for years myself, and still am baffled as to why I'm still having this issue, haha. My specs are near identical to yours somehow - H&G nutes, H&G coco medium and PH'd to 5.8 and 6, same temps, etc... Only difference is I'm using 750watt MH instead of a T5.

Anyhow, did you ever figure out what was causing this, or how to mitigate the problem? Im experiencing this as we speak with some small cuttings I transplanted a little less than a week ago. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

How much calmag are you adding ? In coco you do need to add a fair bit. I'm growing in 100% coco at the moment using canna coco Nutes. I use 2mls each of the a & b and then add 3 mls of cal mag. Nothing more nothing less and are having perfect results so far.

Can I suggest stripping all other Nutes out other than your main Nutes and calmag to see how that goes. Water everyday just a little until you see run off from your pots then empty the run off. Your ph for coco is spot on. Maybe to a run off ph test and post the results

Good luck

mattyblade1 said:

How much calmag are you adding ? In coco you do need to add a fair bit. I'm growing in 100% coco at the moment using canna coco Nutes. I use 2mls each of the a & b and then add 3 mls of cal mag. Nothing more nothing less and are having perfect results so far.

Can I suggest stripping all other Nutes out other than your main Nutes and calmag to see how that goes. Water everyday just a little until you see run off from your pots then empty the run off. Your ph for coco is spot on. Maybe to a run off ph test and post the results

Good luck

Click to expand...

I wasn't adding any cal-mag since there's already some in my nutes, but I did rinse/ pre charge the coco with Cali-Magic and R/O water, mixed with a little well water. So I figured just giving them the nutes would be plenty for the first couple weeks. Well. . . it wasn't, they really like the cal-mag, I've been supplementing it in with my base A/B nutes, and the roots excelurator gold like you mentioned, and they've started to turn around. (I dropped the other nutes listed on the H&G chart like the nitrogen boost, amino acids, algen extract, and the multi-zen) I also bumped my ppm up to 400, and did a couple foliar feeds, and they've really responded. Thanks for the info

Good stuff mate. Keep your PH in check also and you'll be fine. Keep me updated and good luck

wolfheart_48 said:

Alright Folks, i've been having a major issue recently and with all my experience i can't figure out what's going wrong... I've been growing for 6 years now with good results all the time, different places and different setups. Tried DWC, Rockwool, Promix & Coco and never had an issue.

Now back to the problem: So far i got 5 different Batches of clones, each batch from a different place, And every batch was a different strain. ( I din't stick to 1 strain to figure out whether it's a clone issue or something else). And obviously the problem is on my side....

Every time i get new clones, i transplant them in half gallon pots filled with Coco, and water them at 400ppm.
What happens next is the following: After 3 days, all the stems of the clones turn completely purple followed by stunted Growth, eventually they end up growing up but it's not the kind of Veg a grower is looking for. After one month of Veg, my trees end up being 1 foot tall, pretty bushy and with small fan leaves.

I just don't know what's going on really...

Click to expand...

wolfheart_48 said:

Details:
Veg Room Size: 6X9X8
AC: 12000BTU Portable
Water: RO (Growonix 200Gal/day RO)
Nutrients used: House & Garden Coco A+B, Root Excel, Calmag & Great White.
Medium Used: House & Garden Coco (also Tried Canna Coco & Botanicare Aeration Coco, again with Shitty Results)
Room Temperature: Lowest 74, Highest 80
Fans: A Small rotating fan to create a Gentle breeze for the Babies
Humidity: Lowest 45, Highest 65
Fresh Air: Whenever the AC is cooling the room, it sucks air from the outside (the AC turns on for a minute every 5 to 6 minutes, so i have fresh air coming in the room for 1 min every 5 to 6 minutes).
Pests & Diseases: None, I keep my room very clean. Every time, before getting my new clones in the room, i wash everything with Bleach, spray pesticides and use a can of doktor doom to get rid of flies if there are any.
Lights: i use T5s, currently 1 foot away from the clones, Tried getting the lights closer with a previous batch and farther with another, didn't make any difference.
PH: i Adjust my PH at 6.0 as House and Garden Recommends, Tried to start with 5.5 the previous batch, but no luck.
Water Temp: 67-68

I've had my clones in the half gallon pots for 3 days now, and the coco almost seems to be as wet as the first day that i watered.

What the hell is going on? Any suggestions?
Thanks In Advance.

Click to expand...

I'd be taking my temp control a lot more seriously

to my blog on the red stem issue:

https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/understanding-red-stems.30159/

Ok so they responded, but some of the newer leaves are now starting to show burnt tips. Over nute maybe?? The fact that they're kind of a lime greeny color leads me to think that they're not fed enough, no? Or is this still a cal-mag deficiency? I have a 1000w MH light hanging about 4' above it so I don't think it's too much light. Day temps are 74ish, night 66ish (humidity is low @ 40%, can't seem to get it any higher at the moment)

I just transplanted them from a solo cup to these 1 gallon pots a week ago. Overall, they're 2 weeks old from when I got the small rooted cuttings. I've only watered them once with the nutes listed above about 4 days ago, and they're still heavy and the top layer is definitely moist. If it's over nute, I'd like to flush out some of those salts, but I don't want to overwater either. Thoughts on what may be going on here?

Not a coco grower but could it be a root issue? Rot perhaps?

Budley Doright said:

Not a coco grower but could it be a root issue? Rot perhaps?

Click to expand...

Yeah, theres definitely something going on in the root region, just trying to figure out what, haha. Could root rot happen in coco after a week or two? Hoping a coco grower who may have experienced this will have an opinion.

Here's my guess, but it is. . . just a guess, based on some material I've been reading. . .
I'm thinking the root zone is too cold. It's winter right now and it's roughly 15 degrees F outside. I brought my RO water reservoir inside my grow room to keep it warmer but its still only sitting at 59 degrees F in a room thats 74F, leading me to think that my root zone in a wet/moist coco pot would be nearly the same temps. So I'm going to try to heat that water up a bit tonight when I water with an aquarium water heater. When I have to transplant next, would transplanting into a smart pot help keep the roots warmer maybe? I was also thinking I might try to raise the ph a hair to 6.2 as opposed to the 5.8-5.9 I've been giving them to help increase the cal-mag absorption.

I have some experience in both soil and coco. Currently im experiencing something similar to your problem. Coco transplants in my opinion are a little more temperamental compared to soil, especially during the clone to veg transition. I've used 1/2 gal pots for starters but in my experience its almost too much to soon. I now use plastic cups as starters and im seeing much better results with the environment that I grow in. Try putting them in plastic cups next time under the same lights at the same distance , 10"-14". Wait until you see a few roots poking out the bottom of the drain holes before transplant. Its an easier transition for the clones rather then to throw them straight into 1/2 gal pots.

What this does is it allows the coco to properly dry out as the roots continue to search for the water/nutrient feed. I usually water them right as the top layer of coco around the stem starts to look a tad dry. I only water enough so a little comes out of the bottom to ensure complete saturation. Just make sure you have plenty of drain holes and you should be golden. Hope this helps

GhostBud420 said:

I have some experience in both soil and coco. Currently im experiencing something similar to your problem. Coco transplants in my opinion are a little more temperamental compared to soil, especially during the clone to veg transition. I've used 1/2 gal pots for starters but in my experience its almost too much to soon. I now use plastic cups as starters and im seeing much better results with the environment that I grow in. Try putting them in plastic cups next time under the same lights at the same distance , 10"-14". Wait until you see a few roots poking out the bottom of the drain holes before transplant. Its an easier transition for the clones rather then to throw them straight into 1/2 gal pots.

What this does is it allows the coco to properly dry out as the roots continue to search for the water/nutrient feed. I usually water them right as the top layer of coco around the stem starts to look a tad dry. I only water enough so a little comes out of the bottom to ensure complete saturation. Just make sure you have plenty of drain holes and you should be golden. Hope this helps

Click to expand...

I definitely agree with you! I put my clones in too big of containers to begin with and the roots aren't big enough to absorb the water fast enough leaving me with soggy pots that take TOO LONG to dry up in-between waterings. It's too late to go back now and transplant back into smaller containers, but I will definitely be transplanting differently next time, in smaller increments. I did add a small humidifier to the room today to bring my RH up from 38% to around 60-70%.

I have a 1000 watt bulb (turned to 75% on the ballast) so a 750 watt MH bulb in a hood hanging about 3-4' above these plants. Are you recommending I bring it down to 10-14"? I could see keeping a T5 or similar that close, but a MH?