Advice on Air Exchange in 4x4

Chefman86

Member
I have a 4x4x80 tent setup with (2) 1000watt phlizon cree cob LED lights. AC infinity T6 that is pulling air out of my tent. I have a carbon filter, but I am not attaching it until I hit flower. At the other side of my tent at the bottom (opposite my exhaust fan) I have a HEPA shop vac air filter with a ducting convertor that goes from 4" to 6". Then a piece of 6" ducitng that is going into the bottom porthole of my tent for intake. I don't have a intake fan as I thought the T6 would be sufficient enough to pull in air from the bottom. I am running the AC infinity in Auto Mode and have the fan speed set at 7.
My temp hovers at 81-83 degrees and RH is 55%.
I am concerned bc I don't have the lights on full power, just the one veg setting switch on and not the cree cobs on both lights.
Where I am keeping the tent is in the basement and the ambient temperature is 75-79F.
Am I doing something wrong as I am getting alot of negative pressure in my tent. Is that just the T6 doing its job? I don't have any portholes or vents open as I wanted to filter everything through the HEPA filter intake.
Here are some pictures of my setup. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
20200728_222058.jpg
 

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f series

Well-Known Member
Ok I over looked your intake, lol.
Increase your intake until it can equalize

If you're okay with the amount of air flow, or displacement, then increase intake.

Matching two ac infinitys on the same controller is what I did to controll my intake/exhaust.

It really doesn't take much power to remove "stagnant" air.

The thing you should be worrying about, is circulation within your grow space, and canopy. So make sure you have fans within your tent!
 

Chefman86

Member
Ok I over looked your intake, lol.
Increase your intake until it can equalize

If you're okay with the amount of air flow, or displacement, then increase intake.

Matching two ac infinitys on the same controller is what I did to controll my intake/exhaust.

It really doesn't take much power to remove "stagnant" air.

The thing you should be worrying about, is circulation within your grow space, and canopy. So make sure you have fans within your tent!
Increase my intake until it can equalize? So how do I do that? Do I have to buy another fan for my intake? If not, what is a good way to do reduce some of the negative pressure or is that not a big deal? And how can I tell if I am happy with the air circulation? Sorry for all the questions I am just new to this and want to make sure I am doing this right.
 

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Your passive intake is probably too restrictive. Test by removing the filter temporarily.

Filter boxes can be done. Here's a hemi dual intake manifold.

FA48F36C-E387-42D6-9463-C3303E1030B6.jpeg
Hepa is overkill imo.
A Merv8 in front of a Merv13 blocks spores. The Mer8 is to keep the Merv13 clean longer.
 

f series

Well-Known Member
If
Increase my intake until it can equalize? So how do I do that? Do I have to buy another fan for my intake? If not, what is a good way to do reduce some of the negative pressure or is that not a big deal? And how can I tell if I am happy with the air circulation? Sorry for all the questions I am just new to this and want to make sure I am doing this right.
If You can't raise the speed on intake, lower your exhaust, but you should throw on the carbon filter first, it requires more power to push through (ie. Blowing on speed 8 with a filter may be equivalent to blowing speed 4 without a filter) that actually might solve your problem, the filter.

Also, during veg light leaks don't matter, at least IME

I generally just leave tent open and save money on even running inline fans during veg.

You're in a basement, do you have lights you can't control?

I'd just leave the tent open, until smell became a problem.
 

Driver733

Well-Known Member
Increase my intake until it can equalize? So how do I do that? Do I have to buy another fan for my intake? If not, what is a good way to do reduce some of the negative pressure or is that not a big deal? And how can I tell if I am happy with the air circulation? Sorry for all the questions I am just new to this and want to make sure I am doing this right.
I have the same fan and same size tent, and I have been using it all summer, so maybe I can help.

I have two tents, a 2x4 veg tent and a 4x4 flower tent. The 2x4 has AC Infinity 4" intake and 4" exhaust fans (no filters), the 4x4 has AC Infinity 6" exhaust with carbon filter, and 4" intake. I also use 2 small fans inside each tent on low. For lights, I run the SF-2000 in veg tent and the HLG-550V2 R-Spec in flower.

I run my flower tent lights on 10 pm to 10 am, taking advantage of the overnight lower temperatures here in Vermont. I run the veg tent from 10 pm to 4 pm. I have found the best way to regulate temperature is to regulate the room first, because that is where you get most of your passive air intake. I have a big box fan in the window (this is a spare bedroom with one window on the second floor) on a temperature switch, the fan blows into the room cool air from outside, and kicks on whenever the room temp is above 72 degrees. I then have the flower tent exhaust fan running 24/7 on speed 5, this keeps plenty of air moving thru the tent whether or not I have the intake fan running. I then set the intake fan to 80 degrees, so if the tent goes above 80 degrees the intake fan kicks on bringing cold air direct from outside (thru a dryer vent in the wall) into the tent. This will go on and off as needed.

During the day, when it gets up to about 85 degrees outside, I reverse the window fan in the morning so it exhausts air out of the room. I turn off the intake fans for the tents since I don't want to bring hot air from outside into the tent during the day. With the lights off on the flower tent, I can keep the temps below 82 degrees pretty much all day, hotter than I would like but that is only on the hottest days. If I lived anywhere that got hotter, I would need air conditioning. Most days, the tent with lights of stays between 72 and 78 degrees.

That is what I do during the hot summer months. Once the temps start getting colder at night, I can get the room down to 65 degrees with the window fan, and then the passive air intake is plenty to keep the tents below 80 degrees all night and the intake fan hardly works at all. As the weather gets colder, I will close the window and regulate the room temp with fans thru the vent holes. I have a propane heater in the room which keeps the room at 70 degrees all winter. When it is that cold, I exhaust both tents directly into the room, and then exhaust the room as needed thru the vent holes in the wall.

Now, for your situation, the T6 fan is really too big for this size tent unless you are using the carbon filter, and even then it is really strong. In my 4x4 tent with the T6 fan on and no carbon filter, I couldn't put the fan over setting 3 without the tent almost wanting to collapse from negative pressure. It is really strong! You need to open all the port holes on the tent and install either 4" or 6" duct into each port hole, with 180 degree bends. Use 6 to 8 feet long pieces so they hang about 4' inside and outside the tent, this is to prevent any potential light from entering the tent thru the ductwork (unless you put HEPA filters on each intake). You need this to allow passive air to enter your tent as the T6 is pulling air out of the tent. The filters will cut down the air being pulled into the tent, so you will have to adjust for what works for you.

Now, even with all ducts open, I have my carbon filter in the tent on the T6 and I still cannot get the fan over 6 without the tent being sucked in pretty hard, unless I am running the intake fan at the same time. I typically keep the exhaust fan on 5 in the summer and down to 2 or 3 in the winter. To allow more air flow without sucking in the tent so much, you need to add a T4 fan onto one of your intake ports. Actually, you can get the S4 and run it on the T6 controller, this will keep intake and exhaust flowing and maintain negative pressure.

Based on the math, a 6" fan is double the CFM of a 4" fan, and with a carbon filter on the 6" fan should be reduced by at least 25%. Well, I have experimented with 2 - 4" fans both on exhaust with no carbon filter, and they did not come close to the negative pressure of one 6" fan with a carbon filter. So a 6" fan with carbon filter combined with a 4" intake fan will still have plenty of negative pressure.

With the temperature of your basement at 75-79 degrees, I think you will struggle to maintain 80 degrees in your tent with the lights on. You need to get fresh air from outside, especially at night, or air conditioning. Fresh air is ideal, for maximum CO2.

That is about all I can think of for now. Just remember, the more air you move thru the tent, the happier the plants will be, generally speaking.
 

f series

Well-Known Member
Good point. I think I see the fan on the back of the tent dumping into same room.

Not smaller. Larger fans, running at lower speeds are more efficient and quieter.
To piggy back, the t6 is the most efficient on the infinity cloudline fans.
It maxes at 52 watts ±
while the 8 inch maxes at 200 watts±

I would never consider a 4 inch fan, and never have lol
 

Chefman86

Member
I have the same fan and same size tent, and I have been using it all summer, so maybe I can help.

I have two tents, a 2x4 veg tent and a 4x4 flower tent. The 2x4 has AC Infinity 4" intake and 4" exhaust fans (no filters), the 4x4 has AC Infinity 6" exhaust with carbon filter, and 4" intake. I also use 2 small fans inside each tent on low. For lights, I run the SF-2000 in veg tent and the HLG-550V2 R-Spec in flower.

I run my flower tent lights on 10 pm to 10 am, taking advantage of the overnight lower temperatures here in Vermont. I run the veg tent from 10 pm to 4 pm. I have found the best way to regulate temperature is to regulate the room first, because that is where you get most of your passive air intake. I have a big box fan in the window (this is a spare bedroom with one window on the second floor) on a temperature switch, the fan blows into the room cool air from outside, and kicks on whenever the room temp is above 72 degrees. I then have the flower tent exhaust fan running 24/7 on speed 5, this keeps plenty of air moving thru the tent whether or not I have the intake fan running. I then set the intake fan to 80 degrees, so if the tent goes above 80 degrees the intake fan kicks on bringing cold air direct from outside (thru a dryer vent in the wall) into the tent. This will go on and off as needed.

During the day, when it gets up to about 85 degrees outside, I reverse the window fan in the morning so it exhausts air out of the room. I turn off the intake fans for the tents since I don't want to bring hot air from outside into the tent during the day. With the lights off on the flower tent, I can keep the temps below 82 degrees pretty much all day, hotter than I would like but that is only on the hottest days. If I lived anywhere that got hotter, I would need air conditioning. Most days, the tent with lights of stays between 72 and 78 degrees.

That is what I do during the hot summer months. Once the temps start getting colder at night, I can get the room down to 65 degrees with the window fan, and then the passive air intake is plenty to keep the tents below 80 degrees all night and the intake fan hardly works at all. As the weather gets colder, I will close the window and regulate the room temp with fans thru the vent holes. I have a propane heater in the room which keeps the room at 70 degrees all winter. When it is that cold, I exhaust both tents directly into the room, and then exhaust the room as needed thru the vent holes in the wall.

Now, for your situation, the T6 fan is really too big for this size tent unless you are using the carbon filter, and even then it is really strong. In my 4x4 tent with the T6 fan on and no carbon filter, I couldn't put the fan over setting 3 without the tent almost wanting to collapse from negative pressure. It is really strong! You need to open all the port holes on the tent and install either 4" or 6" duct into each port hole, with 180 degree bends. Use 6 to 8 feet long pieces so they hang about 4' inside and outside the tent, this is to prevent any potential light from entering the tent thru the ductwork (unless you put HEPA filters on each intake). You need this to allow passive air to enter your tent as the T6 is pulling air out of the tent. The filters will cut down the air being pulled into the tent, so you will have to adjust for what works for you.

Now, even with all ducts open, I have my carbon filter in the tent on the T6 and I still cannot get the fan over 6 without the tent being sucked in pretty hard, unless I am running the intake fan at the same time. I typically keep the exhaust fan on 5 in the summer and down to 2 or 3 in the winter. To allow more air flow without sucking in the tent so much, you need to add a T4 fan onto one of your intake ports. Actually, you can get the S4 and run it on the T6 controller, this will keep intake and exhaust flowing and maintain negative pressure.

Based on the math, a 6" fan is double the CFM of a 4" fan, and with a carbon filter on the 6" fan should be reduced by at least 25%. Well, I have experimented with 2 - 4" fans both on exhaust with no carbon filter, and they did not come close to the negative pressure of one 6" fan with a carbon filter. So a 6" fan with carbon filter combined with a 4" intake fan will still have plenty of negative pressure.

With the temperature of your basement at 75-79 degrees, I think you will struggle to maintain 80 degrees in your tent with the lights on. You need to get fresh air from outside, especially at night, or air conditioning. Fresh air is ideal, for maximum CO2.

That is about all I can think of for now. Just remember, the more air you move thru the tent, the happier the plants will be, generally speaking.
So with that being said my question is still what do I need to do to get better airflow? Are you saying remove the HEPA filter completely? Attach the carbon filter to the fan now?
All the information was great, I am just sitting here trying to figure out how to use it properly.
 

Chefman86

Member
Your passive intake is probably too restrictive. Test by removing the filter temporarily.

Filter boxes can be done. Here's a hemi dual intake manifold.

View attachment 4638177
Hepa is overkill imo.
A Merv8 in front of a Merv13 blocks spores. The Mer8 is to keep the Merv13 clean longer.
So my question is, do I take the HEPA filter off completely? Are you saying take the filter off and see if air is sucking through the ducting going into the tent?
Is the shop vac HEPA filter the problem, or not having a secondary fan for intake my problem?
 

Chefman86

Member
If

If You can't raise the speed on intake, lower your exhaust, but you should throw on the carbon filter first, it requires more power to push through (ie. Blowing on speed 8 with a filter may be equivalent to blowing speed 4 without a filter) that actually might solve your problem, the filter.

Also, during veg light leaks don't matter, at least IME

I generally just leave tent open and save money on even running inline fans during veg.

You're in a basement, do you have lights you can't control?

I'd just leave the tent open, until smell became a problem.
My exhaust fan is on speed 5-7 speed mostly. I never keep it on 8-10 speed. I can leave the door open but figured since I was using a tent that keeping it sealed up and running the exhaust fan to keep air circulation was the best bet?
I am in a basement, the room that the tent is in has very little light but a light outside the tent for germinating seedlings.
So you're saying through the carbon filter on now and see if that helps?
Should I do anything with that intake filter on the bottom (HEPA filter)?
 

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
So my question is, do I take the HEPA filter off completely? Are you saying take the filter off and see if air is sucking through the ducting going into the tent?
Is the shop vac HEPA filter the problem, or not having a secondary fan for intake my problem?
I suggested taking the hepa filter off temporarily, to test.
Test negative tent pressure at different fan speeds.

The filter is the choke point. Resticts airflow. Surface area...

Where did you learn to use that type of intake filter?
 
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Chefman86

Member
I suggested taking the hepa filter off temporarily, to test.
Test negative tent pressure at different fan speeds.

The filter is the choke point. Resticts airflow. Surface area...

Where did you learn to use that type of intake filter?
Okay so I took the hepa filter off, and with my exhaust fan on speed 6, I can feel air being pulled through my ducting at the bottom of my tent on the other side through my intake ducting...
So maybe that HEPA filter was restricting airflow? But I also had a ducting converter. The 4-in ducting converter was inside the HEPA filter, and sized up to a 6-in to fit the ducting that went into the tent. Do you think that ducting converter had something to do with air flow being restricted?
If it is the HEPA filter restricting airflow, What would be a better bet for a inexpensive filter on this ducting?
 

Chefman86

Member
Okay so I took the hepa filter off, and with my exhaust fan on speed 6, I can feel air being pulled through my ducting at the bottom of my tent on the other side through my intake ducting...
So maybe that HEPA filter was restricting airflow? But I also had a ducting converter. The 4-in ducting converter was inside the HEPA filter, and sized up to a 6-in to fit the ducting that went into the tent. Do you think that ducting converter had something to do with air flow being restricted?
If it is the HEPA filter restricting airflow, What would be a better bet for a inexpensive filter on this ducting?
And to answer your question I had a 6-in automotive air intake filter attached to this before the shop vac HEPA filter setup I have now. I was talking to a guy at a grocery shop who I showed a picture of my tent with negative air pressure inside when I had the car intake filter attached. He said that the car intake filter was covered in an oil-based spray that wouldn't allow air to come in as much as a Shop-Vac HEPA filter would...
So I switched over to a Shop-Vac HEPA filter. realize that my 6-in ducting wouldn't fit into the hole on the back of the HEPA filter so I had to get a ducting converter to go from a 4-in hole to a 6-in hole so my ducting could fit on one side and the 4-in hole could fit into the HEPA filter...
 

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Okay so I took the hepa filter off, and with my exhaust fan on speed 6, I can feel air being pulled through my ducting at the bottom of my tent on the other side through my intake ducting...
So maybe that HEPA filter was restricting airflow? But I also had a ducting converter. The 4-in ducting converter was inside the HEPA filter, and sized up to a 6-in to fit the ducting that went into the tent. Do you think that ducting converter had something to do with air flow being restricted?
If it is the HEPA filter restricting airflow, What would be a better bet for a inexpensive filter on this ducting?
Post #7 was my best.

Filters get dirty.....slowly flowing less air. Smaller the filter....quicker it clogs and starts to affect the environment.
 
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Chefman86

Member
Post #7 was my best.
I saw post number 7. I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do. I really don't want to have to build a frame like you did and then figure out another filter situation...
I was really trying to figure out something that would be an easy solution. I mean if I can feel air going through my intake ducting does that mean the HEPA filter was restricting the airflow? With the hepa filter off, and the exhaust fan at speed 7 I still have my tent sucking in pretty decently..
Just trying to figure out what I need to do to fix it without having to build a structure like you posted in picture number 7
 
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