AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

JediParadox

Member
Hey there aerojunkie, prop's to you for such an awesome setup. I like how you came up with the lift mechanism for the light hood. I used a tool balancer and some pulley's to have my light go up and down easily. I was wondering about a hood for multiple lights but have never come across one, yours is by far the sickest hood I have ever seen! I thought maybe 1 HPS and 1 MH would be perfect for my small 4 x 4 tent so I may try to fab something up. Anyhow, I was wondering if you could give me some info on nutrients for aero. This is my second grow and I'm struggling with the brown spots and yellowing. I use the Canna line. I started another thread in the aero section here in RIU forum, would you mind taking a look and giving me some much appreciated info and insight. https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/491177-aero-root-problems-maybe-nute.html Thanks!!
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
Hey there aerojunkie, prop's to you for such an awesome setup. I like how you came up with the lift mechanism for the light hood. I used a tool balancer and some pulley's to have my light go up and down easily. I was wondering about a hood for multiple lights but have never come across one, yours is by far the sickest hood I have ever seen! I thought maybe 1 HPS and 1 MH would be perfect for my small 4 x 4 tent so I may try to fab something up. Anyhow, I was wondering if you could give me some info on nutrients for aero. This is my second grow and I'm struggling with the brown spots and yellowing. I use the Canna line. I started another thread in the aero section here in RIU forum, would you mind taking a look and giving me some much appreciated info and insight. https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/491177-aero-root-problems-maybe-nute.html Thanks!!
JP, Thanks for the kind words. The tool balancer was a cleaver idea.

I took a look at your setup and to be up front with you, nutrients and plant diagnosis is not really my forte. This is one of the many reasons I don't consider myself to be an advanced grower and probably never will. But, off the bat I would recommend NOT buffering your PH prior to adding Canna to your reservoir. Most nutrient solutions are designed to bring your PH into a manageable threshold. After the addition of nutrients you will only need to slightly buffer from say 6.2 down to 6.0 rather than 7.0 to 6.0. I don't know what you are using for a "PH Down" but I personally use phosphoric acid with good results.

Also, I'm sure that it is possible to run organics in your HP system but I really wouldn't recommend it. Canna is composed of inorganic chemical ferts and there is no need to protect "beneficial bacteria" in your system as you do not need them for your Nitrogen Cycle. I personally use a 32% H2O2 to kill all bacteria in my system. Bleach is also used by others. Don't concern yourself with bacteria unless your concern is to rid yourself of it.

ihatefoxnews mentioned to look up fatman. I am actually home brewing his mix currently. The mix I run is a bit different than the DTW formula he posted here as he formulated it 2 years after his original posts.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/334895-nutrient-recipes.html

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really.html


Check out his threads, its good info to chew on.
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
By the way, I had to order all my chemicals in bulk. I have 1000's of lbs of chemicals I will never use. If anyone is interested in home-brewed DTW ferts for cheap, let me know and Ill mix batches until my supply is at a more manageable level.
 

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
looks like you have alot of time into this setup. your right not many trying AA. im wondering why you chose the nozzle placements lower in the chamber as my experience is you will end up with root issues blocking mist patterns? and what purpose are you hoping the grid pattern will serve that is on the floor? why not just a sloped floor so everything drains? im not knocking anything about your setup just curious as to why you chose these options.
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
looks like you have alot of time into this setup. your right not many trying AA. im wondering why you chose the nozzle placements lower in the chamber as my experience is you will end up with root issues blocking mist patterns?
Hey tree farmer, nice to see you out and about these days.

The reason my nozzles are lower is because they are wide angle full cone nozzles and not flat nozzles similar to the atomix. When they do fire, the pattern still currently reaches the lids. The idea was to keep my chambers deep enough to run the majority of the spray under the root systems. There is quite a bit of flow going on within the few seconds the solenoids fire and my idea was to have the most even distribution of mist possible. If I were to raise the nozzles, the bulk of the mist (in my mind) would coalesce on the surface of the closest roots rather than diffusing throughout the chamber. Fortunately raising and lowering my nozzles or swapping out spray patterns in this system is not at all difficult if it becomes necessary.


and what purpose are you hoping the grid pattern will serve that is on the floor? why not just a sloped floor so everything drains? im not knocking anything about your setup just curious as to why you chose these options.
There is already 1/4" slope. in both chambers. The egg crate gird is supported by a ripped 1/2" pvc pipe and I have a nylon root block that lays atop the grid. The grid is only there to support the root blocker and allow maximum drainage without allowing roots to interfere.

This system is only two seasons old. I do not grow anything during the summer months to avoid AC expenses. Currently I just started a crop of basil from seed 6 weeks ago and I'm waiting to take cuttings to fill the system. Last season I only used the center half of the veg chamber with decent results but did not grow in the flower chamber. I don't currently grow MJ in this system. I did not build it to grow plants, I grow plants to to tinker with the system. A little coo coo I know.

Thanks for your interest Tree Farmer and I hope you stay tuned, I am open to any and all suggestions by any level of grower. So far this has been solely a product of my own imagination so to get input from others will be a nice change of scenery for me.
 

dickkhead

Active Member
JP, Thanks for the kind words. The tool balancer was a cleaver idea.

I took a look at your setup and to be up front with you, nutrients and plant diagnosis is not really my forte. This is one of the many reasons I don't consider myself to be an advanced grower and probably never will. But, off the bat I would recommend NOT buffering your PH prior to adding Canna to your reservoir. Most nutrient solutions are designed to bring your PH into a manageable threshold. After the addition of nutrients you will only need to slightly buffer from say 6.2 down to 6.0 rather than 7.0 to 6.0. I don't know what you are using for a "PH Down" but I personally use phosphoric acid with good results.

Also, I'm sure that it is possible to run organics in your HP system but I really wouldn't recommend it. Canna is composed of inorganic chemical ferts and there is no need to protect "beneficial bacteria" in your system as you do not need them for your Nitrogen Cycle. I personally use a 32% H2O2 to kill all bacteria in my system. Bleach is also used by others. Don't concern yourself with bacteria unless your concern is to rid yourself of it.

ihatefoxnews mentioned to look up fatman. I am actually home brewing his mix currently. The mix I run is a bit different than the DTW formula he posted here as he formulated it 2 years after his original posts.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/334895-nutrient-recipes.html

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really.html


Check out his threads, its good info to chew on.
how much h202 or bleach do you run per gallon? and is it ok to recirculate either one?
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
To begin, remember and ounce of prevention, yada yada. If a person already has a mess of pythium they are dealing with, H2O2 may or may not help their roots recover. H2O2 vs. Bleach is a long standing argument. I would rather not get into that aspect but I will say both are beneficial in non-organic Hydro systems.

Also, residual levels of both H2O2 and chlorine will vary a bit from individual systems depending on temperatures, aeration, concentrations of products used, and amounts of bacteria or fungi needing to be destroyed.

That being said, here are some basic guidelines.

H2O2

I use H2O2 for a preventative measure, as its a quite unstable molecule that releases one oxygen atom and one molecule of H2O as it decomposes. Because this this extra O atom is so reactive, it will either attach itself to another O atom (creating O2), or it will attack a nearby organic molecule. So it is a win win because when the H2O2 breaks down it will either increase the dissolved O2 in the res or it will kill unwanted bacteria.

There are many grades of H2O2, 3% 8% 17.5% 35%. I recommend steering clear of your local pharmacy's 3% as manufacturers add acetanilide to prevent the decomposition of low levels of H2O2 from occurring too rapidly. Instead use "Food Grade" H2O2, the higher the percentage, the more economical it will be. It is recommended to dilute to 3% prior to use as it is extremely caustic to use at such high concentrations.

Diluting to 3% will be determined by the concentration you purchase but to keep it simple, add 9 parts of distilled water to 1 part 30% H2O2, or 11 parts H2O to 1 Part 35% to get a 3% ratio.

1:9 for 30%
1:11 for 35%

After dilution I add 3ml per liter (2 1/2 tsp./Gal) of 3% H2O2 to every fresh reservoir and replace 25% daily for maintenance.

Ex. for 20 gal res. add approx. 1 cup of 3% H2O2 initially. followed by 1/4 cup every day for maintenance. For DTW, reduce maintenance amount by 1 tbsp/5 Gal. as necessary. H2O2 does not remain in the res for as long as chlorine.

Chlorine

I recommended initially shocking your reservoir with 2-2.5 ppm chlorine and dose with .5-1 ppm every 24-48 hours depending on system. If you already have signs of root rot or pythium it is ok to dose with a 4 ppm solution. Most tap water has between .7 and 2.0 ppm chlorine normally and federal law allows up to 4 ppm. Pythium starts to be destroyed at levels as low as .2 ppm. My research allows me to believe that chlorine will not harm plants in even higher concentrations in a non-organic system, but to avoid argument these levels work fine.

Its getting late so to keep it simple. Dilute H2O and Clorox Bleach 38:1-40:1 or approx. 1/2cup/Gal or 100ml/L

Add 5ml/L of diluted solution to res initially for 2 ppm. add 2.5 ml/L every 24-48 hours for 1 ppm. Add 10 ml/L for 4 ppm root rot destroyer.

Conversion
10ml/L = approx 2tsp/gal
5ml/l = approx 1tsp/gal
2.5ml/l = approx 1/2tsp/gal

Notes:
1. Use gloves and eye protection when using H2O2 ESPECIALLY high concentrations.
2. Keep diluted mix in opaque container to prevent rapid decomposition. Pressure does build as H2O2 decomposes so use strong container similar to a soda bottle.
3. Keep your H2O2 refrigerated to increase shelf life.
4. When buying H2O2, squeeze container to check for freshness. If you feel "cracking", buy elsewhere or return as H2O2 has already began to oxidize container.
5. Reiterate, 1 oz prevention = 1 lb cure
6. I have personally not found any information advising NOT to use chlorine and H2O2 together, however I recommend trying each individually as one may work better than the other in any given system. If signs of prolific fungi, bacteria, or root rot are present, I see no reason why a combination of the two would be harmful in a non-organic system.

Good Luck.
 

dickkhead

Active Member
To begin, remember and ounce of prevention, yada yada. If a person already has a mess of pythium they are dealing with, H2O2 may or may not help their roots recover. H2O2 vs. Bleach is a long standing argument. I would rather not get into that aspect but I will say both are beneficial in non-organic Hydro systems.

Also, residual levels of both H2O2 and chlorine will vary a bit from individual systems depending on temperatures, aeration, concentrations of products used, and amounts of bacteria or fungi needing to be destroyed.

That being said, here are some basic guidelines.

H2O2

I use H2O2 for a preventative measure, as its a quite unstable molecule that releases one oxygen atom and one molecule of H2O as it decomposes. Because this this extra O atom is so reactive, it will either attach itself to another O atom (creating O2), or it will attack a nearby organic molecule. So it is a win win because when the H2O2 breaks down it will either increase the dissolved O2 in the res or it will kill unwanted bacteria.

There are many grades of H2O2, 3% 8% 17.5% 35%. I recommend steering clear of your local pharmacy's 3% as manufacturers add acetanilide to prevent the decomposition of low levels of H2O2 from occurring too rapidly. Instead use "Food Grade" H2O2, the higher the percentage, the more economical it will be. It is recommended to dilute to 3% prior to use as it is extremely caustic to use at such high concentrations.

Diluting to 3% will be determined by the concentration you purchase but to keep it simple, add 9 parts of distilled water to 1 part 30% H2O2, or 11 parts H2O to 1 Part 35% to get a 3% ratio.

1:9 for 30%
1:11 for 35%

After dilution I add 3ml per liter (2 1/2 tsp./Gal) of 3% H2O2 to every fresh reservoir and replace 25% daily for maintenance.

Ex. for 20 gal res. add approx. 1 cup of 3% H2O2 initially. followed by 1/4 cup every day for maintenance. For DTW, reduce maintenance amount by 1 tbsp/5 Gal. as necessary. H2O2 does not remain in the res for as long as chlorine.

Chlorine

I recommended initially shocking your reservoir with 2-2.5 ppm chlorine and dose with .5-1 ppm every 24-48 hours depending on system. If you already have signs of root rot or pythium it is ok to dose with a 4 ppm solution. Most tap water has between .7 and 2.0 ppm chlorine normally and federal law allows up to 4 ppm. Pythium starts to be destroyed at levels as low as .2 ppm. My research allows me to believe that chlorine will not harm plants in even higher concentrations in a non-organic system, but to avoid argument these levels work fine.

Its getting late so to keep it simple. Dilute H2O and Clorox Bleach 38:1-40:1 or approx. 1/2cup/Gal or 100ml/L

Add 5ml/L of diluted solution to res initially for 2 ppm. add 2.5 ml/L every 24-48 hours for 1 ppm. Add 10 ml/L for 4 ppm root rot destroyer.

Conversion
10ml/L = approx 2tsp/gal
5ml/l = approx 1tsp/gal
2.5ml/l = approx 1/2tsp/gal

Notes:
1. Use gloves and eye protection when using H2O2 ESPECIALLY high concentrations.
2. Keep diluted mix in opaque container to prevent rapid decomposition. Pressure does build as H2O2 decomposes so use strong container similar to a soda bottle.
3. Keep your H2O2 refrigerated to increase shelf life.
4. When buying H2O2, squeeze container to check for freshness. If you feel "cracking", buy elsewhere or return as H2O2 has already began to oxidize container.
5. Reiterate, 1 oz prevention = 1 lb cure
6. I have personally not found any information advising NOT to use chlorine and H2O2 together, however I recommend trying each individually as one may work better than the other in any given system. If signs of prolific fungi, bacteria, or root rot are present, I see no reason why a combination of the two would be harmful in a non-organic system.

Good Luck.
Ok I ordered the h202 35% and will start with that. Just trying to do preventive maintenance! And when do u stop using chlorine or h202? Thank you for the detailed reaponse!
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
Ok I ordered the h202 35% and will start with that. Just trying to do preventive maintenance! And when do u stop using chlorine or h202? Thank you for the detailed reaponse!
With such low levels of food grade H2O2, you can use it all the way through. If you prefer, you can stop using it at the same time you begin to flush your nutrients. From 24-72 hours prior to harvest in any system because it will be completely decomposed before then.
 

dickkhead

Active Member
With such low levels of food grade H2O2, you can use it all the way through. If you prefer, you can stop using it at the same time you begin to flush your nutrients. From 24-72 hours prior to harvest in any system because it will be completely decomposed before then.
so with HP aero you only flush 24-27 hours before harvest? and flush with straight RO water right? no cal mag or anything at all?
thanks man
 

ranger9mm

Member
so with HP aero you only flush 24-27 hours before harvest? and flush with straight RO water right? no cal mag or anything at all?
thanks man
24-72 hours in atomized aero only with RO.

that's something i still have to figure out with my setup. currently with my system which is drain to waste, i am using about 1-2 gallon per day with my timer set at .3 seconds on every 3 minutes and my pump only runs once every 3 days so i have to really plan ahead on things.
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
that's something i still have to figure out with my setup. currently with my system which is drain to waste, i am using about 1-2 gallon per day with my timer set at .3 seconds on every 3 minutes and my pump only runs once every 3 days so i have to really plan ahead on things.
I actually installed a simple return valve before my solenoid that I use to drain my accumulator. With this set up, its easy to drain unused nutrients back to my reservoir so switching to RO is effortless. You may want to run some RO water through your accumulator once to flush it. I've also considered adding another pump and accumulator that can be swapped in and out of the system with a few shutoff valves. Work smarter not harder right?
 

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
I gotta say, using a return valve & accumulator shut-off is a must. You could survive without, but why? Ranger: What size accumulator do you have? My 19 gallon holds 4-5 gallons under pressure. I figure it could run 3-4 days, but hard to tell, as I usually bring it up to 100 every day.
 

dickkhead

Active Member
I gotta say, using a return valve & accumulator shut-off is a must. You could survive without, but why? Ranger: What size accumulator do you have? My 19 gallon holds 4-5 gallons under pressure. I figure it could run 3-4 days, but hard to tell, as I usually bring it up to 100 every day.
post a link of acc how much was it?
 

dickkhead

Active Member
if im running bleach or h202 do i still need to change my res weekly?, im recirculating in veg chamber. or if when i add the acc do i need to flush or just keep adding water and nutrients... Im planning on having the acc tank hooked up on my flowering tent and do dtw do i need to ever flush out the acc tank or just keep adding nutrients and RO water? so flush 24-72 with atomized hp aero but what about HP aero?
 

aerojunkie

Well-Known Member
if im running bleach or h202 do i still need to change my res weekly?, im recirculating in veg chamber. or if when i add the acc do i need to flush or just keep adding water and nutrients... Im planning on having the acc tank hooked up on my flowering tent and do dtw do i need to ever flush out the acc tank or just keep adding nutrients and RO water? so flush 24-72 with atomized hp aero but what about HP aero?
If you recycle, flush once a week and check PH daily. Why are you recycling? Nutes are cheap @ low EC and there is no need to check PH daily. I only drain my accumulator if I am changing the concentrations of my res. If you want to be on the safe side, you can flush for 72 hours or more.
 

dickkhead

Active Member
If you recycle, flush once a week and check PH daily. Why are you recycling? Nutes are cheap @ low EC and there is no need to check PH daily. I only drain my accumulator if I am changing the concentrations of my res. If you want to be on the safe side, you can flush for 72 hours or more.
my setup is similar to petflora where its a res,pump,and mister heads, I dont have all the extra gear: acc tank pressure swith,reg,RV filters etc... petflora i believe recycles his nutes and im running the same timer DRT-1 in my veg tent as him, and figured itd be ok to recirculate them. so if I just have my res and and pump and i switch it to drain to waste I wont need to change the res? just keep adding water and nutrients and watch the ppm right? thanks for answering my questions Im still dialing my setup in as you can tell
 
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