AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

Trichy Bastard said:

I saw it: Mike posted it last month or so- it was just another wrong HPA unit... I'm afraid they'll never get it right comercially save Atomix which in turn filed bankruptcy....

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Atomix is a knockoff, do not cry for them, the droplet range on their machine was wrong anyway, you could achieve the same droplet sizes with ultrasonic foggers.

Aeroponics is droplets 5-50 micron's as stated by NASA in research with the NIS and Richard Stoner, it does not matter what method you use to achieve the droplet range.

Richard Stoner and his companies are the name in commercial aeroponics, the only GENUINE name I can find. Everything else is using droplets out of the correct range and therefore are frauds.

AgriHouse and Stoner who made the first commercial aeroponics unit based on scientific method that was developed by other people long before he came along, successfully packaged it into one unit with ease of use for those same said scientists. The Genesis machine, it's on their website, with feature details, the newest generation of the Genesis machine is also there with its updated modernized features. If you all insist on reinventing the wheel then enjoy wasting your time arguing about something that is already defined by the true creators.

If you would like Aeroponics to become a reality for the majority of people, I would say it's far better for us to make a concerted effort to source components to replicate these already existing perfected systems at a hobbyists price point. Below I've put a list of features on their top of the line unit I jotted down, here's a link to the page with the comparison

Genesis V L-1


26 Jets
Lateral Spray Jet Configuration
Accumulator
Hydro-Controller
Digital Timer
Effluent Return
Stand
Reservoir
Reservoir Filtration
Growth Supports
Expandable
Hi-psi Pump (80-100)
Reservoir Frame
Effluent Filtration
Thermo-Sensor Subsystem
Fail-Safe Sensor Subsytem
Auto-refill Sensor Subsystem
Pre-filter Subsystem
R/O Filtration Subsystem
Auto-refill Solenoid Subsystem
Reservoir Overflow Protection
Effluent Bio-Filtration Subsystem

Now reinventing the wheel is pointless but we have a target list of features that can be sourced one by one and eliminated, and all this mystery around this topic can DIE FOREVER.

foresakenlion said:

Atomix is a knockoff, do not cry for them, the droplet range on their machine was wrong anyway, you could achieve the same droplet sizes with ultrasonic foggers.

Aeroponics is droplets 5-50 micron's as stated by NASA in research with the NIS and Richard Stoner, it does not matter what method you use to achieve the droplet range.

Richard Stoner and his companies are the name in commercial aeroponics, the only GENUINE name I can find. Everything else is using droplets out of the correct range and therefore are frauds.

AgriHouse and Stoner who made the first commercial aeroponics unit based on scientific method that was developed by other people long before he came along, successfully packaged it into one unit with ease of use for those same said scientists. The Genesis machine, it's on their website, with feature details, the newest generation of the Genesis machine is also there with its updated modernized features. If you all insist on reinventing the wheel then enjoy wasting your time arguing about something that is already defined by the true creators.

If you would like Aeroponics to become a reality for the majority of people, I would say it's far better for us to make a concerted effort to source components to replicate these already existing perfected systems at a hobbyists price point. Below I've put a list of features on their top of the line unit I jotted down, here's a link to the page with the comparison

Genesis V L-1


26 Jets
Lateral Spray Jet Configuration
Accumulator
Hydro-Controller
Digital Timer
Effluent Return
Stand
Reservoir
Reservoir Filtration
Growth Supports
Expandable
Hi-psi Pump (80-100)
Reservoir Frame
Effluent Filtration
Thermo-Sensor Subsystem
Fail-Safe Sensor Subsytem
Auto-refill Sensor Subsystem
Pre-filter Subsystem
R/O Filtration Subsystem
Auto-refill Solenoid Subsystem
Reservoir Overflow Protection
Effluent Bio-Filtration Subsystem

Now reinventing the wheel is pointless but we have a target list of features that can be sourced one by one and eliminated, and all this mystery around this topic can DIE FOREVER.

Click to expand...

Mine eyes have been opened!!!

Dear Craigslist,

Curb Alert!!! Entire Aeroponic system up for grabs! First come first serve, must take all.
Please don't leave a mess.

Aerojunkie.

Trichy Bastard said:

The Multiponics kit is no better than what you made- save your money. It soaks the roots too for the same reasons of not enough room, etc... You can build a much better system for a tenth of the price...

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I think you are confusing a Multiponics aero kit with their treefrog system. Their aero kits are only $250-$300. I have used their stuff and had great results. You can use their aero kit in a tub too. Nobody here is doing well with aero. Period. At least I have harvested bud filled crops with Multiponics aero/nft setup.
If you can build an entire aero kit for 1/10th their price you would only have a budget of $25. Wrong again. The aero is a nft hybrid but so what. My plants were 4 ft tall and full of colas. I've seen you guys hammer their shit a few times now. I ran aero in it. Now I run other kinds of hydro in it. No wasted money here. Just COLAS baby.

Last year you said Atomix was the best shit around now you say it's crap. Pick a story and stick to it. Prove me wrong with pics of your giant crops.

Oh, and now you guys have all decided to copy Richard Stoner? Why did you waste 2 years on false starts when the blueprint was already there. Oh, by the way, HE GROWS MICRO GREENS. Not weed. Aero is awesome for micro greens.

Micro Spray in = Micro Greens Out
After your roots are 18" long they hit the bottom anyway. Big plants want big roots
BTW that Stoner system is 2' x 4' and costs about $3700. Try filling a basement with those!

nortonriderr said:

BTW that Stoner system is 2' x 4' and costs about $3700. Try filling a basement with those!

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Ours is twice as big and cost half as much.

For 10+ years people have been copying patents they didn't create, trying ultrasonic fog, trying air assisted, none of those patents have become commercial products, they're not cost effective. AgriHouse and Richard Stoner, his partners they perfected Aeroponic, and from the Aerojet from GH to the Aeroflo from Bontanicare, to all the TAG threads, all of them have been copying Stoner and doing a bad job of doing it.


No one should give up on their setups, they should however accept reality, and work from the blueprint provided. Most of you are very close to the actual set-up but your dimensions, spray duration are highly variable, additionally none of you are filtering your effluent, which will clog your sprayers which is happening to a lot of you.


I am not posting here to argue, but to clarify what this is and is not. Here's some basic facts.


Microns 1-10 = Dry Fog 10-100 = Fine Mist, 100-300 = Fine Drizzle, 300-1000 = Light Rain, 1000+ Rain Storms


NASA stated in their research you need 5-50 microns for sustained growth to full maturity


Most "Aeroponics" LPA, or MPA have Light Rain and Fine Drizzle sized droplets, instantaneously rendering them NON-AEROPONIC SYSTEMS, anything they state otherwise is simply FALSE.


From what I could gather the original genesis system had a 3 minute off, 3 second on timing interval, Wikipedia's article on Aeroponics stated a typical feed/pause cycle is < 2 seconds on, followed by ~1.5-2 minute pause 24/7, it notes that when an accumulator is used this can be reduced to < ~1 second on, ~1 minute pause, the current systems available from AgriHouse have a programmable interval timer. Research I've seen from the scientific fields in their papers note that interval is crop related and the above should be considered a baseline, not optimal.


Below I list the components of the low end original Genesis system and the high end commercial version with all the bells and whistles, w/ notes, if you can add to them please do for others. That said, I have ideas for components, I am fleshing them out, I will add them to the appropriate threads as I find them.


Original Genesis System


18 Hydro-Atomizing Spray Jets (0.25" Orifice)
Accumulator (Pre-Filter or a Post Filter?, Probably a Pre-Filter) w/
Hydro-Controller/Digital Timer (3 Minutes Off, 3 Seconds On, Programmable Interval & Duration)
Effluent Return (Pipe, Pump?)
Stand
Reservoir (Nutrient Recycling? (Two Tiered Gravity Filter In-between?) 10 Gal. w/ Lid & Level Indicator
Reservoir 2
Hi-psi Pump
Effluent Filtration (3-Stage Micro-Filtration <- Ultrafiltration or in-line Micro-Filters ala John Guest In-Lines?)
Digital Timer & Controller (3 Minutes Off, 3 Seconds On)
48" L x 18" W x 16" D
160 Plant Supports (Monomial)


GS V


26 Jets
Lateral Spray Jet Configuration
Accumulator
Hydro-Controller
Digital Timer
Effluent Return
Stand
Reservoir
Reversoir Filtration
Growth Supports (Plant Yo-Yo's?)
Expandable (Pipe Connector?)
Hi-psi Pump (80-100)
Reservoir Frame (Stand)
Effluent Filtration (See Above)
Thermo-Sensor Subsystem (In-chamber Temp Control Vs. Grow Room Control?)
Fail-Safe Sensor Subsytem (Included in Green House Environmental Controllers, Aquaponics, Terrarium, Fish Tank Controllers)
Auto-refill Sensor Subsystem (Included in Hanna Fertigator, Redundant Float Switch Sensor Kits)
Pre-filter Subsystem (Sediment Filter?)
R/O Filtration Subsystem
Auto-refill Solenoid Subsystem (Solenoid Controlled Filtered Water From RO, linked to Auto-refill Sensor)
Reservoir Overflow Protection (Higher Tier Redundant Float Switch Sensor Kit Linked To Drain?
Effluent Bio-Filtration Subsystem (Aquaponic Biofilter? Bioballs? Pro-Bacteria/Fungi/Etc)

Now less arguing more deducing please.

I mean no offend AeroJunkie, you're doing what you want to do so more power to you, but having read a lot about this I foresee issues in your future, there is a reason no company not even AgriHouse has moved forward on air assisted.... even at the high costs of their units they deliberately avoided that route, there has to be a serious reason why they with their R&D avoided it entirely. That said, I wish you all the best, and I hope you read more on this so you get an idea of the pitfalls of not having these redundancies built in.. If anything I'd like to see you learn from something/one I already read about who has overcome these issues. With all due respect, I wish you sincere luck. I also apologize for even brining up the topic in here, I have no idea why I did other than I saw some people still thinking this is not a DEFINED field of science already.

It&#8217;s not a DEFINED science. Not by a longshot. At its core, Aeroponics is not a terribly difficult concept to grasp. You said it yourself &#8211; delivering a nutrient solution to plant roots in the range of 5-50 microns (some prefer the 20-80 micron range but to each their own). How the mist is delivered, how the effluent is managed, and how the entire artificial environment is controlled is all open to different interpretation, provided the roots receive their nutrient solution in the proper micron range.

I have an Air Assisted Aeroponic chamber currently growing 14 bell pepper seedlings (dialing things in before I&#8217;m able to really grow &#8211; roots prefer a much dryer rhizosphere but still good for tinkering). I don&#8217;t have sufficient lighting, and my roots have a ways to go before having full access to the mist (also feeding with a pipette), but in the areas where the mist does get in I am noticing very fine root hairs. My nozzles fall under the &#8220;dry mist&#8221; range; they&#8217;re very low output and the mist stays mobile for a long time. The whole system has run for 2 weeks without a hiccup (knock on wood) and although I would like to see faster growth (weak lights), I am confident that I can sustain life in this chamber. Unfortunately I can only keep these seedlings growing for another month or two before a new roommate moves in.

For me, I don&#8217;t want to deal with the high pressures of HPA and all the extra water that comes with it. I couldn't recirculate my effluent if I tried because there isn&#8217;t much. My DTW system consists of me mopping up the bottom with a towel once every few days. I also didn&#8217;t want to spend over 3 grand for somebody else&#8217;s system. By building this myself, I understand how it operates and am wary of less than optimal performance. I add a little bleach to my nutrient solutions every few days &#8211; simple. In fact I really don&#8217;t need to touch anything for at least 2 weeks, at which point I like to clean everything and replenish nutrients if necessary (still at least a gallon of solution left). I&#8217;ve got 2 nozzles in a 150 gallon deck box; I don&#8217;t have to deal with 26 separate nozzles and tubing. I built this whole system for $700-$800 from stuff that could be ordered online and picked up at a hardware store, and could build another one for less with all my hindsight. So explain to me why I would be better off using a system with unnecessarily high water pressures, constant monitoring of effluent recirculation, 10x as many nozzles, and an astronomical price to boot?

Not trying to fan any flames, just bugs me when people tell me there is only one way to skin a cat. I get your logic &#8211; AgriHouse is [one of] the only real manufacturer of commercial Aeroponic units, therefore they must have the most efficient design; ergo any design deviating from theirs will be less than optimal. There are just too many other factors at play -- availability of equipment, budget, space limitations, etc. If micron size truly is the only defining feature of Aeroponics, then any method of delivering the appropriate mist should be explored&#8230; High pressure, air assisted, and every nozzle in between.

Thats bad ass shit! I love it!

foresakenlion said:

I mean no offend AeroJunkie, you're doing what you want to do so more power to you, but having read a lot about this I foresee issues in your future, there is a reason no company not even AgriHouse has moved forward on air assisted.... even at the high costs of their units they deliberately avoided that route, there has to be a serious reason why they with their R&D avoided it entirely. That said, I wish you all the best, and I hope you read more on this so you get an idea of the pitfalls of not having these redundancies built in.. If anything I'd like to see you learn from something/one I already read about who has overcome these issues. With all due respect, I wish you sincere luck. I also apologize for even brining up the topic in here, I have no idea why I did other than I saw some people still thinking this is not a DEFINED field of science already.

Click to expand...

Takes much more for me to be offended. You and I will just have to agree to disagree. I dont relly know what you mean by "Defined field of science" anyhow. As far as I know, no science is 100% defined and advancements are made continuously in any given field. Perhaps the reason agrihouse does not offer an atomized system is due to the fact that it would require much more customer support as an atomized system is quite a bit more finicky. Either way, I don't care much what they have to offer as their same delivery system can be made by ransacking the local home depot for 1/10th the price. Which brings me to another reason they may not offer Atomized systems... They would need to rape their clients without lube in order to achieve the same profit margins as they do now. Agrihouse has their client base which is fine, they obviously also have their fans... but Agrihouse is a business first and foremost not a leader in scientific technology. They have a system that achieves what they advertise and at the end of the day they can make a profit. I don't grow for profit, I didn't design my system to break any technological barriers, I don't ever plan to recoup my investment, and I am not a business. To sum it up, apples and oranges.

Best of luck to you also, no apologies necessary.

Seed55 said:

It&#8217;s not a DEFINED science. Not by a longshot. At its core, Aeroponics is not a terribly difficult concept to grasp. You said it yourself &#8211; delivering a nutrient solution to plant roots in the range of 5-50 microns (some prefer the 20-80 micron range but to each their own). How the mist is delivered, how the effluent is managed, and how the entire artificial environment is controlled is all open to different interpretation, provided the roots receive their nutrient solution in the proper micron range.

I have an Air Assisted Aeroponic chamber currently growing 14 bell pepper seedlings (dialing things in before I&#8217;m able to really grow &#8211; roots prefer a much dryer rhizosphere but still good for tinkering). I don&#8217;t have sufficient lighting, and my roots have a ways to go before having full access to the mist (also feeding with a pipette), but in the areas where the mist does get in I am noticing very fine root hairs. My nozzles fall under the &#8220;dry mist&#8221; range; they&#8217;re very low output and the mist stays mobile for a long time. The whole system has run for 2 weeks without a hiccup (knock on wood) and although I would like to see faster growth (weak lights), I am confident that I can sustain life in this chamber. Unfortunately I can only keep these seedlings growing for another month or two before a new roommate moves in.

For me, I don&#8217;t want to deal with the high pressures of HPA and all the extra water that comes with it. I couldn't recirculate my effluent if I tried because there isn&#8217;t much. My DTW system consists of me mopping up the bottom with a towel once every few days. I also didn&#8217;t want to spend over 3 grand for somebody else&#8217;s system. By building this myself, I understand how it operates and am wary of less than optimal performance. I add a little bleach to my nutrient solutions every few days &#8211; simple. In fact I really don&#8217;t need to touch anything for at least 2 weeks, at which point I like to clean everything and replenish nutrients if necessary (still at least a gallon of solution left). I&#8217;ve got 2 nozzles in a 150 gallon deck box; I don&#8217;t have to deal with 26 separate nozzles and tubing. I built this whole system for $700-$800 from stuff that could be ordered online and picked up at a hardware store, and could build another one for less with all my hindsight. So explain to me why I would be better off using a system with unnecessarily high water pressures, constant monitoring of effluent recirculation, 10x as many nozzles, and an astronomical price to boot?

Not trying to fan any flames, just bugs me when people tell me there is only one way to skin a cat. I get your logic &#8211; AgriHouse is [one of] the only real manufacturer of commercial Aeroponic units, therefore they must have the most efficient design; ergo any design deviating from theirs will be less than optimal. There are just too many other factors at play -- availability of equipment, budget, space limitations, etc. If micron size truly is the only defining feature of Aeroponics, then any method of delivering the appropriate mist should be explored&#8230; High pressure, air assisted, and every nozzle in between.

Click to expand...

Good to see another tinkerer in the mix, glad to have you aboard!

The biggest mistake I see is trying to get roots to look like Pom Poms by decreasing your feed times. Bottom line is when you see fine fuzzy roots you are starving the plant and you will not get the results you are looking for in plant growth. This is what I have experienced .Do you really think for a moment that NASA would make a 4 foot container to grow one plant in space? Not....NASA scientist would be trying to grow in the smallest space available I do not think they would waste time and money growing in container so big for one plant that they will never be able to use in space. Just to let you know I use 6x6 PVC fence post using 8-0.28 stainless nozzles per 3 plants and do a nft also using a chiller with a air tight reservoir with fresh air being pumped in a large ceramic stone. Also do a recirculating and drain to waste depending on Ppms being used. My system is completely air tight air only escapes via net pots.

This thread is too muh.. Scared to read it cause I'll be switching to hpa if I do. Nft for now

nortonriderr said:

I think you are confusing a Multiponics aero kit with their treefrog system. Their aero kits are only $250-$300. I have used their stuff and had great results. You can use their aero kit in a tub too. Nobody here is doing well with aero. Period. At least I have harvested bud filled crops with Multiponics aero/nft setup.
If you can build an entire aero kit for 1/10th their price you would only have a budget of $25. Wrong again. The aero is a nft hybrid but so what. My plants were 4 ft tall and full of colas. I've seen you guys hammer their shit a few times now. I ran aero in it. Now I run other kinds of hydro in it. No wasted money here. Just COLAS baby.

Last year you said Atomix was the best shit around now you say it's crap. Pick a story and stick to it. Prove me wrong with pics of your giant crops.

Oh, and now you guys have all decided to copy Richard Stoner? Why did you waste 2 years on false starts when the blueprint was already there. Oh, by the way, HE GROWS MICRO GREENS. Not weed. Aero is awesome for micro greens.

Micro Spray in = Micro Greens Out
After your roots are 18" long they hit the bottom anyway. Big plants want big roots
BTW that Stoner system is 2' x 4' and costs about $3700. Try filling a basement with those!

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You said nobody here is doing well with Aero?? Period?? Speak for yourself. I agree that most Aero systems grow small plants that can't produce as much...but Aero can grow TREES. No NFT, no hybrid, just huge root masses growing in air and resulting in huge yields. Don't dismiss the idea because you haven't done it or figured it out. Period.

hammer21 said:

The biggest mistake I see is trying to get roots to look like Pom Poms by decreasing your feed times. Bottom line is when you see fine fuzzy roots you are starving the plant and you will not get the results you are looking for in plant growth. This is what I have experienced .Do you really think for a moment that NASA would make a 4 foot container to grow one plant in space? Not....NASA scientist would be trying to grow in the smallest space available I do not think they would waste time and money growing in container so big for one plant that they will never be able to use in space. Just to let you know I use 6x6 PVC fence post using 8-0.28 stainless nozzles per 3 plants and do a nft also using a chiller with a air tight reservoir with fresh air being pumped in a large ceramic stone. Also do a recirculating and drain to waste depending on Ppms being used. My system is completely air tight air only escapes via net pots.

Click to expand...

I agree with this statement because in my own experience playing around with feeding times...short cycles may help the roots puff out, but the plant itself slowed down growth considerably. That is why I used long feeding times from clone, then shortened it to develop the lateral root system (without accumulators and solenoids), and then increased the feeding time again when there was more hungry mouths to feed. Instead of a few hundred root tips to feed, you in turn get thousands...resulting in faster growth and bigger yields. And correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't that the point??

Sorry AJ... It seems your poor thread has sufferred the circus of misinformation available everywhere else on the subject. Agrihouse overwaters the hell out of their plants- so they can recirculate- not my cup of tea. Cutting back the feed times when AND ONLY WHEN everything else is dialed in properly causes the roots to grow hairs which increases the surface are exponentially and therefore makes the roots super efficient. The puffing out pom-poms is actually a bad thing in my mind and can be attributed to something wrong with the mist particle size or spray trajectory being imperfect. The best aero succelents to date have been grown by G-love and tree farmer- so I have seen. Both of them follow the same logic and it's the logic I also learned from Atomizer and abide by myself. I have seen it with my own eyes and I can cut holes in everyone elses conflicting comments here. I am not stating this to argue, however, I think we are all in this for the same thing- to get the best results and save nutes/time right? Well, if you haven't learned the right perspective to see aero with- by now- with what all the gurus I mentioned earlier have unearthed, and I have also spent time documenting, then I doubt you'll ever see the light and you should start your own aero threads on your soakponics anywhere other than these threads, it would be perfectly acceptable as opposed to trying to argue with the authors of these methods for which you don't believe in... Why oh why does aero attract droves of trollish posts?

Trichy Bastard said:

Sorry AJ... It seems your poor thread has sufferred the circus of misinformation available everywhere else on the subject. Agrihouse overwaters the hell out of their plants- so they can recirculate- not my cup of tea.

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I'm assuming they made their system wetter because the seedlings were not performing well with under 40ish micron. We did some tests and found anything under 50 microns at the seedling stage didn't do so hot. However, once you have a decent root mass (3 weeks+), the plants did fine with smaller microns, as low as 20ish. We did notice the plants didn't put on as much mass though with the smaller microns.

indrhrvest said:

I'm assuming they made their system wetter because the seedlings were not performing well with under 40ish micron. We did some tests and found anything under 50 microns at the seedling stage didn't do so hot. However, once you have a decent root mass (3 weeks+), the plants did fine with smaller microns, as low as 20ish. We did notice the plants didn't put on as much mass though with the smaller microns.

Click to expand...

Interesting observation... I think the type of plants also determine what size mist is best. Your micro-greens might like smaller mist than cannabis. The thing is once you get root hairs, it's a bit of a different game. You need to coax them out, and then only they can use the smaller mist droplets that regular roots could not thrive in...

aerojunkie:growing::mac o'grady:golfing

PetFlora said:

Micro-Greens have much shorter grow cycles, and relatively small root balls. Fine for NFT, not fine for mmj, which grows very large root balls- balls that clog nft rails or tubes. If NASA is growing mmj on space stations it is in a much bigger per plant set up

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lol, gotta admit I like the logic you use when referring to NASA growing pot... Talk about going into outer space with Richard STONER