Aliens

KronDonSmoker said:
All I know is if I was ever visited by aliens the first thing i would do is offer a peace pipe and figure out a common language and see if they have any sweet space weed...I would think personally Minds advanced enough to travel through space lightyears at a time would evolve passed the idiotic thing we call violence in this world...Thats the hippie in me talking though...Would be cool to meet one though
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Get high on DMT and you will probably meet one, you also might meet a God as well.
 
cannabineer said:
Tyler, I have experienced a few things myself that I cannot easily explain, or explain away.
I am not troubled by this because I have no faith in the capacity of the human mind to comprehend all of it ... to posit such is in violation of Gödel's theorem imo.
Of course I have scientifically plausible explanations to hand, but they are tentative, and I suspect them of being facile. So I won't commit to a pure-materialistic worldview ... but I'll be a rather tough customer in re ideas of spirit. I have noticed that people in general have an amazing, driving, at times desperate need to have it all make sense. Imo this drives some into a sort of hard-bitten materialist antitheism ... and others in pursuit of the mystical.

A consequence of this that i have seen is that many people will latch onto ideas or philosophies that Explain Stuff, but they will do so without keeping their faculties of discernment in play. How else explain the massive support for such proven scams as homeopathy, astrology and the doings and sayings of men in black robes? With so much noise, i don't see signal ... but I'm not entitled, or so arrogant, as to say that there is definitively no signal from something genuinely spiritual, not-self. But my capacity for credulity is sharply restrained by my knowledge that we humans have a talent for sensing magic and spirit where there often is demonstrably none. It's my nature to err on the side of caution.

So i live in a world that contains, and has presented, experiences that I cannot fit into an internally and externally consistent world-concept without applying some force. So I content myself with ... not doing so. Some may see this as quitting. I prefer to present it as humility. I may or may not get some answers before my time is called ... but I do have faith that once it is, I get to have an unlimited carefree rest from existence. Let the youngsters take the reins, and hope that they don't run the whole team off a cliff. cn
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I totally get what you're saying, Neer. I simply haven't had these experiences, so I cannot relate. While I admit that I do prefer certain ideas about existence that I'd like to be true, I'm not aware of being invested enough in these ideas that I would deny anything reality would show me. Having said that, if I saw something happen that was outside the laws of physics as I understand them (meeting jesus and watching him levitate, or watching a car turn into a cow), the first thought I would have is that I was hallucinating for some physical reason as opposed to believing I've just witnessed the supernatural. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the supernatural, but that possibility would take a back seat to the possible rational explanations (Occam's razor and all that). So, I guess I'll hold a pure-materialistic worldview until something else presents itself to me. You know as well as I the pitfalls of human perception, and how easily it can fool us. My worldview has been shattered several major times in my life so far, and I'm still here and thriving, perhaps stronger than ever. So, I don't really fear it happening again. I simply want to understand reality as best I can, whatever it actually consists of...
 
blazinkill504 said:
nah you got it twisted im not gonna talk to YOU further about it because apparently you're soo wrapped up on what goes on in your brain and what you think you dont bother to read everythin correctly.
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You haven't been able to demonstrate I misunderstood anything you said. Part of conversation and rational argumentation is being clear and doing what you can to make sure you are understood. Instead, all you have done is whine and complain and threaten to stop responding to me, like I fucking care. Run away, don't answer post #1042 because we all know you can't or it will just be more bullshit and you will never respond to the actual substance of my post. People that have confidence in their claims don't avoid answering tough questions and can respond to criticism of their ideas without stomping their feet and claiming the opposition is not understanding them and then shut the door to further elaboration.

Stop pretending the claims you are making are backed by anything empirical. All of your 'evidence' is reinterpretation of facts to support your wild speculations and ignoring facts that don't fit. Status quo for conspiracy nuts, religious types and woo woos. You really need to learn what evidence actuall is and is not.
 
mindphuk said:
you haven't been able to demonstrate i misunderstood anything you said. Part of conversation and rational argumentation is being clear and doing what you can to make sure you are understood. Instead, all you have done is whine and complain and threaten to stop responding to me, like i fucking care. Run away, don't answer post #1042 because we all know you can't or it will just be more bullshit and you will never respond to the actual substance of my post. People that have confidence in their claims don't avoid answering tough questions and can respond to criticism of their ideas without stomping their feet and claiming the opposition is not understanding them and then shut the door to further elaboration.

Stop pretending the claims you are making are backed by anything empirical. All of your 'evidence' is reinterpretation of facts to support your wild speculations and ignoring facts that don't fit. Status quo for conspiracy nuts, religious types and woo woos. You really need to learn what evidence actuall is and is not.
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destroyed!!!
 
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Get high on DMT and you will probably meet one, you also might meet a God as well.
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they are not aliens or gods they are hallucinations. you dont get exterior knowledge on dmt everything from the trip comes from and is experienced within. its irresponsible to tell people to take hallucinogenics to try to see an end result
 
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
These idiots need a well respected man of science to tell them if something is real or not, kind of sad, isnt it? Its kinda like they dont even have their own opinion of things like these, just copy the opinions from people of the past... Perhaps they are fearful of the unbelievable and unexplainable because accepting something that doesnt correspond with their very very limited scientific sense of reality would alter their paradigm, they would rather keep it nice and simple and not think about things that mess with their head.
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Science is a systematic way of carefully and thoroughly observing nature while using consistent logic to evaluate the results. What part of this do you feel is flawed?


Is it being systematic? Do you feel it is better to be disordered?


Is it being careful and thorough? You would rather be sloppy and incomplete?


Is it using consistent logic? A better method is random senselessness?

If an idea is truly beyond science, then it is beyond nature, and, naturally, can not be demonstrated to correspond with physical reality in any way. Attempts to do so undermine the very premise you present.
 
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
ah EVIDENCE! It always seems to come down to evidence for some reason... If I were to say "eye witnesses" for evidence you would say "tricks of the mind". If I were to refer to ancient texts you'd probably say they are like the bible and are wrong. If I were to refer to modern teachings of the divine science of spirit then I would be labelled a new age hippie... Theres really nothing we can do to prove anything to you people because you have such an atheistic scientific point of view, you go back to the words of great men of the past and use that as your platform of knowledge... but we are not in the past anymore... I think theres enough amazing mysteries in the world to make people accept that theres a lot more to life that we just cant comprehend because we have no way to...
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So basically your critisism of the 'atheistic scientists' here is...

They don't believe things that are unbelievable

They don't believe things without being careful

They have consistent standards of evidence

They pay too much attention to prior knowledge

They spend too much time explaining their position, sighting sources and demonstrating their point.


So apparently you disagree with the fundamental academic standards which have lead us to any significant progress you can name. You see the scientific method as a result of being scared and enslaved to ideas of the past, while enjoying the comfort and well being this very progress has brought you. Of course, this is assuming you watch tv, use a computer, aren't starving, and would want antibiotics when you get a tooth abscess. I realize these are not guaranteed assumptions when it comes to you. For all I know you live in a mud hut, would put some sort of toad on your toothache, and post to the web using your mind spirit.

Many of us have been around for a while and recognize this song and dance. Your claims can not live up to these standards and so you belittle them. You do so by using trash talk and name calling but when asked, can not provide any substantial criticism. You pretend to wisdom via the shortcut of posing.

If this is how you choose to approach life then who are we to say you are wrong. Of course that is not what you are saying. You're saying this is the obvious way to view life and anyone who doesn't is an idiot robot. You invite contempt and obviously enjoy it.

"In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not a 'closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge." - Ian Rowland
 
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
ah EVIDENCE! It always seems to come down to evidence for some reason... If I were to say "eye witnesses" for evidence you would say "tricks of the mind". If I were to refer to ancient texts you'd probably say they are like the bible and are wrong. If I were to refer to modern teachings of the divine science of spirit then I would be labelled a new age hippie... Theres really nothing we can do to prove anything to you people because you have such an atheistic scientific point of view, you go back to the words of great men of the past and use that as your platform of knowledge... but we are not in the past anymore... I think theres enough amazing mysteries in the world to make people accept that theres a lot more to life that we just cant comprehend because we have no way to... I think DMT is our best evidence of a spiritual world and of intelligent extraterrestrials. DMT is the most potent psychedelic drug known to man and we produce it every night when we sleep, it is produced from the Pineal gland (aka Third Eye) and it also floods our brain with DMT right before we die... DMT was put through experiments and often the the people using it would find themselves sharing DMT trips and talking to the same intelligent being... My man Joe Rogan explains DMT the best, I have yet to use it but I plan to soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6RBOIgtzEE
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Thanks for the response, but I'm having trouble finding any answer to my questions in your reply. Let me try something a little different...

Would it be fair to say that you have absolutely no interested in the concept of evidence and that evidence does not play a part in your decision making processes?

If evidence does matter to you in some way, please give us your definition of evidence so we can understand what you mean when you speak about evidence.

Thanks.
 
Heisenberg said:
So basically your critisism of the 'atheistic scientists' here is...

They don't believe things that are unbelievable

They don't believe things without being careful

They have consistent standards of evidence

They pay too much attention to prior knowledge

They spend too much time explaining their position, sighting sources and demonstrating their point.


So apparently you disagree with the fundamental academic standards which have lead us to any significant progress you can name. You see the scientific method as a result of being scared and enslaved to ideas of the past, while enjoying the comfort and well being this very progress has brought you. Of course, this is assuming you watch tv, use a computer, aren't starving, and would want antibiotics when you get a tooth abscess. I realize these are not guaranteed assumptions when it comes to you. For all I know you live in a mud hut, would put some sort of toad on your toothache, and post to the web using your mind spirit.

Many of us have been around for a while and recognize this song and dance. You can not live up to these standards and so you belittle them. You do so by using trash talk and name calling but when asked, can not provide any substantial criticism. You pretend to wisdom via the shortcut of posing.

If this is how you choose to approach life then who are we to say you are wrong. Of course that is not what you are saying. You're saying this is the obvious way to view life and anyone who doesn't is an idiot robot. You invite contempt and obviously enjoy it.

"In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not a 'closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge." - Ian Rowland
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^Wisdom in a box. It is extremely hard for most people to critique their own self, especially when it might lead to one being wrong or holding onto a contradicting thought. But isn't that how we all learn, we learn from our mistakes?
 
KronDonSmoker said:
Hahahaha what the hell is DMT I will have to google that shit apparently lol
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Dimethyltryptamine, a smokable, short-acting and intense psychedelic ... essentially the naked pharmacophore of the indoleethylamine class of psychedelics.

I have smoked it numerous times, and, CWE's confidence notwithstanding, have only managed to encounter ... myself. cn
 
Heisenberg said:
So basically your critisism of the 'atheistic scientists' here is...

They don't believe things that are unbelievable

They don't believe things without being careful

They have consistent standards of evidence

They pay too much attention to prior knowledge

They spend too much time explaining their position, sighting sources and demonstrating their point.


So apparently you disagree with the fundamental academic standards which have lead us to any significant progress you can name. You see the scientific method as a result of being scared and enslaved to ideas of the past, while enjoying the comfort and well being this very progress has brought you. Of course, this is assuming you watch tv, use a computer, aren't starving, and would want antibiotics when you get a tooth abscess. I realize these are not guaranteed assumptions when it comes to you. For all I know you live in a mud hut, would put some sort of toad on your toothache, and post to the web using your mind spirit.

Many of us have been around for a while and recognize this song and dance. Your claims can not live up to these standards and so you belittle them. You do so by using trash talk and name calling but when asked, can not provide any substantial criticism. You pretend to wisdom via the shortcut of posing.

If this is how you choose to approach life then who are we to say you are wrong. Of course that is not what you are saying. You're saying this is the obvious way to view life and anyone who doesn't is an idiot robot. You invite contempt and obviously enjoy it.

"In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not a 'closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge." - Ian Rowland
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Lol their you go again Heisenberg, taking what I say, processing it through your computer-like brain then present it to me like an automated android waiting for another subject to pass by that you can dissect and prove false. I believe our point of view of each other is well established, no need to keep repeating yourself with the definition of science and science and what not, its really getting old. And sorry if my name calling and stuff offends you, guess showing a little personality is also frowned upon...
And my claims cant live up to the standards? what standards? Are you talking about SCIENCE again Heisenberg? my my, theres really no hope in explaining these kinds of things to you people.
 
cannabineer said:
Dimethyltryptamine, a smokable, short-acting and intense psychedelic ... essentially the naked pharmacophore of the indoleethylamine class of psychedelics.

I have smoked it numerous times, and, CWE's confidence notwithstanding, have only managed to encounter ... myself. cn
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And that makes me wrong how? Maybe you should look up some facts and some studies that were done on DMT, one study had to be stopped because the guy doing the research got too freaked out by the results.
 
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
Lol their you go again Heisenberg, taking what I say, processing it through your computer-like brain then present it to me like an automated android waiting for another subject to pass by that you can dissect and prove false. I believe our point of view of each other is well established, no need to keep repeating yourself with the definition of science and science and what not, its really getting old. And sorry if my name calling and stuff offends you, guess showing a little personality is also frowned upon...
And my claims cant live up to the standards? what standards? Are you talking about SCIENCE again Heisenberg? my my, theres really no hope in explaining these kinds of things to you people.
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You can only ever hope to explain unquestioned faiths to yourself... the wiser ones can see right through contradictory, unprovable and fallacious thinking. With these ideas, the only hope you can ever grasp is the hope that you can make yourself believe the ideas you have borrowed from others. Attempting to make others believe is merely congruence to allow yourself to believe as well.

There are those who choose to believe only what they like best, and those who believe only what can be proven to them beyond reasonable doubt...
It is easy to see which type of psychological behavior belongs to whom.
 
Zaehet Strife said:
You can only ever hope to explain unquestioned faiths to yourself... the wiser ones can see right through contradictory, unprovable and fallacious thinking. With these ideas, the only hope you can ever grasp is the hope that you can make yourself believe the ideas you have borrowed from others. Attempting to make others believe is merely congruence to allow yourself to believe as well.

There are those who choose to believe only what they like best, and those who believe only what can be proven to them beyond reasonable doubt...
It is easy to see which type of psychological behavior belongs to whom.
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I dont believe what I believe just because of other peoples point of view, I've actually experienced some amazing things that would alter anyones reality no matter how hard they try to rationalize it (things that are not tricks of the mind). I dont believe at all actually, because theres limitations when someone has a belief, I KNOW that most of what I know is true based on amazing experiences that defy science and from knowledgeable people... But bringing up these experiences is kinda useless because I have no way in proving them to be true, well unless you lived here then more than a few people can tell you that they are true.
 
Zaehet Strife said:
You can only ever hope to explain unquestioned faiths to yourself... the wiser ones can see right through contradictory, unprovable and fallacious thinking. With these ideas, the only hope you can ever grasp is the hope that you can make yourself believe the ideas you have borrowed from others. Attempting to make others believe is merely congruence to allow yourself to believe as well.

There are those who choose to believe only what they like best, and those who believe only what can be proven to them beyond reasonable doubt...
It is easy to see which type of psychological behavior belongs to whom.
Click to expand...

actually they wouldnt even need to tell you its true, you'd just experience it for yourself.
 
I also have had many experiences that i have not been able to explain. The thing about these experiences, are that as soon as you attempt to give meaning to them... you change the experience from what it was (a confusing unexplainable experience) into exactly what you want it to be (a message from god, a spirit etc etc.)

As soon as you attempt to give meaning to an experience, you change it from what it was... to what you want it to be. Theres no way around it.
 
Im pretty sure reading thoughts can only be classified as reading thoughts lol Im pretty sure this is the forum I posted that little story in, I suggest you find it and give it a read.

Page 108
 
What does reading thoughts (which has never been proven possible, so by default is impossible) have anything to do with what i just said...?

"I also have had many experiences that i have not been able to explain. The thing about these experiences, are that as soon as you attempt to give meaning to them... you change the experience from what it was (a confusing unexplainable experience) into exactly what you want it to be (a message from god, a spirit etc etc.)

As soon as you attempt to give meaning to an experience, you change it from what it was... to what you want it to be. There's no way around it."
​
 
well you were just suggesting if you give meaning to something unexplainable then most likely your meaning is wrong because its only what you want it to be... Im saying its hard to mistake mind reading as anything else... Read my story I told to Tyler a few pages back... Its up to you to decide if Im a liar or not.
 
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