...All Things Vero...

Would you consider buying a VERO after reading through some of the posts?


  • Total voters
    357

nvhak49

Well-Known Member
I have seen BJB holders for Vero's that are reflector holders as well....might be difficult to source?

DIY?
Yeah it's diy just trying to figure out if I wanna go cxb 3070 or Vero 29 since they're cheaper but more efficient when driven harder
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
@nvhak49

I'd advise you to go with either top-bin CXB3590 or Vero 29, do not waste your time with CXB3070 top bin. I've tested them, compared them with other cobs and they aren't as 'special' as the datasheets would lead us to believe.

@PurpleBuz
We all learn from our errors. Nothing was ever perfect in its beginning stages. But from our hindsight comes intuition and from intuition perfection. You should be able to relate and if not, then what's your motive?
 

nvhak49

Well-Known Member
@nvhak49

I'd advise you to go with either top-bin CXB3590 or Vero 29, do not waste your time with CXB3070 top bin. I've tested them, compared them with other cobs and they aren't as 'special' as the datasheets would lead us to believe.

@PurpleBuz
We all learn from our errors. Nothing was ever perfect in its beginning stages. But from our hindsight comes intuition and from intuition perfection. You should be able to relate and if not, then what's your motive?
How hard would you drive the Vero 29s?
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
@nvhak49

I'd advise you to go with either top-bin CXB3590 or Vero 29, do not waste your time with CXB3070 top bin. I've tested them, compared them with other cobs and they aren't as 'special' as the datasheets would lead us to believe.
poppycock, the cxb3070's are little bit less efficient than the cxb3590s and significantly more efficient than the vero18s.

When under driving at lower currents the difference in efficiency between cxb3070 and cxb3590 compresses to the point where it can be cheaper (depending on pricing) to use multiple cxb3070s at a lower current with a similar efficiency. Reference the recent tests that supra did measuring light output of various cobs.

A smaller LES can be more practical for a number of reasons. Lenses, holders and reflectors are relatively limited for cxb3590 compared to smaller LES cobs.
 
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AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
@PurpleBuz

I know what I know about how these cobs perform first hand and you know what you know about how these cobs perform.. second hand.

This past week, SupraSPL and I discussed some of the results I've recorded and we reached a few conclusions. We both use a similar wavelength correction for our Apogee meters, so that was ruled as being on point. One of the things that partially explains why the Vero 29 4000K performs as good, if not better, than the CXB3590 3500K 36V (CD) at currents of 1600~2400mA, with respect to light output. is that the Vero 29 runs at a higher potential/voltage at similar currents/amps. Another factor is the optics used, with the Vero 29 emitting at a tighter angle (~69 degrees) in comparison to the CXB3590 (~72 degrees) with Stella HB optics. From my visual observations, the Cree 3590 3500K appeared warmer/redder than the Vero 29 3000K and if so, could possibly result in a higher wavelength correction, thus raising the overall light output of the Cree CXB3590. SupraSPL thoroughly shared his views over this notion and reassured me that one's perception of color can be slightly different than another's and to disregard the idea that the correction factor, calculated and given by Apogee, for the CXB3590 should be higher.

Now two sides can argue over which cob is the best performer but from what I've seen, recorded, and shared, both Vero 29 and CXB3590 36V (CD) clearly perform quite similarly with respect to light output. If one can conclude that they perform similarly in real life application, then the only matter of question when choosing one from another for use is quality and cost. Most of us here can agree that both brands of cobs are of the highest quality and that Vero is much more affordable than its Cree counterpart.

There's more testing that I'd like to perform to better determine where exactly the Cree CXB3590 36V (CD) does its best, such as running it at currents below 1600mA.

It seems that the CXB3590 is the only large, common LES cob that doesn't have a wide-selection of optic accessories, mainly clamps, with new parts surely on their way to capitalize on the demand.
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
This past week, SupraSPL and I discussed some of the results I've recorded and we reached a few conclusions. We both use a similar wavelength correction for our Apogee meters, so that was ruled as being on point. One of the things that partially explains why the Vero 29 4000K performs as good, if not better, than the CXB3590 3500K 36V (CD) at currents of 1600~2400mA, with respect to light output. is that the Vero 29 runs at a higher potential/voltage at similar currents/amps. Another factor is the optics used, with the Vero 29 emitting at a tighter angle (~69 degrees) in comparison to the CXB3590 (~72 degrees) with Stella HB optics. From my visual observations, the Cree 3590 3500K appeared warmer/redder than the Vero 29 3000K and if so, could possibly result in a higher wavelength correction, thus raising the overall light output of the Cree CXB3590. SupraSPL thoroughly shared his views over this notion and reassured me that one's perception of color can be slightly different than another's and to disregard the idea that the correction factor, calculated and given by Apogee, for the CXB3590 should be higher.

Now two sides can argue over which cob is the best performer but from what I've seen, recorded, and shared, both Vero 29 and CXB3590 36V (CD) clearly perform quite similarly with respect to light output. If one can conclude that they perform similarly in real life application, then the only matter of question when choosing one from another for use is quality and cost. Most of us here can agree that both brands of cobs are of the highest quality and that Vero is much more affordable than its Cree counterpart.

There's more testing that I'd like to perform to better determine where exactly the Cree CXB3590 36V (CD) does its best, such as running it at currents below 1600mA.
I wasn't commenting on any of that. I was referring to your remark about cxb3070s. That's nonsense and I just showed you why. get it ?

I'd advise you to go with either top-bin CXB3590 or Vero 29, do not waste your time with CXB3070 top bin. do not waste your time with CXB3070 top bin
 

KarmaPaymentPlan

Well-Known Member
4K vero vs 3500K cree...apples to apples....NOT! Do it right or don't bother.
3500K vs 3500K
Or
4K vs 4K

And yet there are companies offering top bin 3070 lights for cheaper than companies offering basic veros...Why is that.
AP recent tests are still inconsistent with sloppy control and a strong bias
its cool nobodies perfect but the superiority thing is driving me nuts
more importantly AquaPants hold yourself to this high regard with HB but you reproduce questionable data and argue inconsistencies with your lazy measurements with the data sheets and other members first hand experience and test (which are generally more consistent...)
i wonder is hes still pm people to try and sell as soon as they arrive?
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
AP recent tests are still inconsistent with sloppy control and a strong bias
its cool nobodies perfect but the superiority thing is driving me nuts
more importantly AquaPants hold yourself to this high regard with HB but you reproduce questionable data and argue inconsistencies with your lazy measurements with the data sheets and other members first hand experience and test (which are generally more consistent...)
i wonder is hes still pm people to try and sell as soon as they arrive?
What's driving me nuts is that I'm not seeing the numbers that I'd like to see given the fact that the efficiency for the CXB3590 3500 (CD) on paper is anywhere between 7~12% more than the Vero 29 4000K at currents of 400~2400mA but yet when measured with an Apogee 120 PAR sensor, the results are similar, if not more favorable for the latter cob. Also the CXB3590 is nearly 30$ more than the Vero 29, so I'm trying like hell to locate any errors on my part, as well as question established factors from other parties. Do I have my doubts about the Apogee 120 PAR meter even though I and others here have very reliable wavelength correction factors? Yes I do. Do I question the results of my tests? You bet I do. I'm now bringing this matter to the attention of others who are known for their expertise in this field of study and I look forward to reaching a final conclusion before long with their camaraderie.

I could be like other individuals and entities and assume the datasheets are the holy gospel and forgo any in-depth testing, further progressing my financial agenda. Plenty of LED fixture companies have done that in the past and still continue today to do so, thus misleading their customers and ultimately short handing them. Don't believe me? Take the guy two comments above this one for example. Ask him how hot the case temperature of his cobs are at various currents for his product; it plays a considerable role in how these cobs perform. The difference between them and me is that I want to know exactly what I'm offering regarding my products and not simply exaggerate in order to avoid any technical effort and/or costs. Furthermore, I love performing these test and analysis procedures, as it's basically what I did in college for +2 years and I'd say it's sort of an addiction, much like those who love building their DIY lighting fixtures.
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
@PurpleBuz

How again did you show me? You must have left out actual data or a link to someone else's, as I couldn't conclude on your theory.

@Greengenes707

Why do you believe we should compare only 3500K to 3500K or 3000K to 3000K and not, say, Vero 4000K to CXB 3500K, Greeng?
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
@PurpleBuz

How again did you show me? You must have left out actual data or a link to someone else's, as I couldn't conclude on your theory.
its not theory its fact shown by supras work . my post was quite clear do you know how to read a graph ?

http://rollitup.org/t/top-bin-cob-comparison.891010/page-11#post-12179606

- cxb3590 3500k at ~55 watts gives ~7.8 ppfd/w
- cxb3070 3500K at ~40 watts gives ~7.8 ppfd/w

considering that cxb3070s are significantly cheaper than cxb3590s, it may be more cost effective to use more cxb3070s at a lower current than fewer cxb3590s at a higher current, since you can get the same or better efficiency for the 3070s at a lower current.

so in conclusion I say poppycock to the comment "do not waste your time with CXB3070 top bin"

now do you get it ?
 
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AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
If it's not too much to ask, where's your reference or link? SupraSPL does a bunch of different tests, so narrowing it down to one would be nice on your part, if not, no biggie, I'll ask him later about it.
 
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