Altered States of Consciousness and Philosophy

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
I'd like to discuss the concept of altered states of consciousness and get some thoughts on what it means in a philosophical sense. That is, beyond the linguistic definition and its physiological representation, what is the essence of the concept of altered states of consciousness. To clarify: by linguistic definition I means simply, "non-normative states of consciousness"--obviously this definition doesn't take us very far. By physiological representation I mean the quantified wavelengths of neuroelectrical activity commonly referred to as brainwaves. Thus, I am not interested in discussing (in this discussion) the fact of differing brainwaves attendant to / concomitant with different states of consciousness. Hence, to tell me that an altered state of consciousness is any state of consciousness in which one's brainwaves fall outside the "normal" "average" beta-wave of wakeful consciousness, is not going to be productive for this discussion.

Rather, I'd like to get at (a) what are the states of consciousness (b) what qualifies as a truly "altered state of consciousness" (c) what are the altered vs. non-altered states of conscoiusness (d) what is the timbre or quality of alterity under consideration--that is, is there a particular sense attached to the term "altered" in "altered state of consciousness" whereby we can separate dream-states from chemically induced hallucinatory states such that the former does not qualify as an "altered state" in this sense, while the latter most certainly does? (e) can we delineate a particular state of consciousness that arrises out of an individual's attempt to experience the sense data of physical reality in a way different from his or her normal experience thereof? (f) is there a special, separate, and specific state of consciousness that correlates to the experience of individuals who ingest psychotropic substances for the express purpose of experiencing consciousness (and, perhaps, by transitive necessity, physical reality) differently than their usual experiences?

thanks in advance for your participation!
 

charface

Well-Known Member
When I used to stay up for days not eating during the "psychosis" stage.
I considere that a genuine altered state.

It was not much different than a horrible
acid trip.

Still not sure if the apparitions were
made up or if I was actually half in another reality.

My son is paranoid schizophrenic
and I wonder if he is seeing reality
or if we are.

For what it is worth. I never seen or heard
things like cars or flowers unless on cid.

Sleep and food deprivation only pruduced
beings making me think it was the more
real of the two
 

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your contribution charface! this is indeed exactly the kind of thing i'd like to parse--food and sleep deprivation, mental disparity from the clinically determined "norm," and neurochemical manipulation all represent non-normative experiences of reality facilitated through alterations of consciousness--that is, we can't really say that food deprivation and sleep deprivation act upon physical objects outside ourselves, but they do act on our own consciousness and provide us with understandings of reality separate from those derived from the same stimuli but under different SOCs...so...do each of these (food/sleep dep. drugs, mental orientations different than the norm commonly referred to as mental disorders or psychological disorders) constitute a differnt state of consciousness, and thus an altered state of consciousness, or, as charface has pointed out, is there only one true experience of consciousness that is being discussed under the moniker of "altered state of consciousness"?
DMT fans, this thread is ripe for you (us)!
 

charface

Well-Known Member
pineal(sp) gland type shit.

I watched the baby jesus be delivered
by aliens all acted out in the motion of a reticulated pythons scales.
The snake was real and pissed by my focused attention after about 17 hrs

That was under both sleep dep and acid
im pretty sure.
My buddy was convinced acid could cure our meth addiction and dosed me.

Ive also ecperienced sleep paralysis.
I couldnt move but wide awake.
Heard buzzing, feeling tingling and the
overwhelming fear that something unseen was trying to enter my body.

This was at a point in my life when I slept with the bible on my chest due to irrational fears.
It was a meth induced psychosis
that lasted about 3 months after ceasing
the drug.

Ill stop here but ive experimented and survived. My head is either enlightened
or fucked up. I think both
The result is I want to be a better person
so I try not to beat myself up over the damage. But my brain does try to attack
itself at times. Every day is a struggle though

peace
 

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
pineal(sp) gland type shit.

I watched the baby jesus be delivered
by aliens all acted out in the motion of a reticulated pythons scales.
The snake was real and pissed by my focused attention after about 17 hrs

That was under both sleep dep and acid
im pretty sure.
My buddy was convinced acid could cure our meth addiction and dosed me.

Ive also ecperienced sleep paralysis.
I couldnt move but wide awake.
Heard buzzing, feeling tingling and the
overwhelming fear that something unseen was trying to enter my body.

This was at a point in my life when I slept with the bible on my chest due to irrational fears.
It was a meth induced psychosis
that lasted about 3 months after ceasing
the drug.

Ill stop here but ive experimented and survived. My head is either enlightened
or fucked up. I think both
The result is I want to be a better person
so I try not to beat myself up over the damage. But my brain does try to attack
itself at times. Every day is a struggle though

peace
thanks for sharing man, i think you're probably wise to more than the average joe without such experiences so probably more enlightened than fucked up in my opinion,
be easy, :peace:

so what about it? what is an altered state? is it a single thing or does the term describe a wide variety of experiences?
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
There are different perspectives. For instance see Ken Wilber, Steven Pinker, and Daniel Dennett. They have interesting views on consciousness and have generated vast bodies of work.
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
There are different perspectives. For instance see Ken Wilber, Steven Pinker, and Daniel Dennett. They have interesting views on consciousness and have generated vast bodies of work.
Indeed. Sam Harris is also very interested in spirituality and understanding altered states of consciousness (I think he spent more than a year's time in caves meditating). He calls these states 'Rational Mysticism' and attempts to separate transcendental experiences from religious and supernatural woo. He speaks of FMRI studies of Tibetan monks that show the specific neural activity of the brain while in these states, and how different these states are from our 'normal' conscious state. Pretty interesting stuff...
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
Neuroscience might be the next war between religious zealots and science. OTOH it is almost certain to be the next step in our understanding. We'll get there.
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
Have you read Donald Barthelme? Here is his short story, "The School." He gets it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[h=3]The School
[SIZE=-3]from[/SIZE]
Sixty Stories
by Donald Barthelme[/h]

Well, we had all these children out planting trees, see, because we figured that ... that was part of their education, to see how, you know, the root systems ... and also the sense of responsibility, taking care of things, being individually responsible. You know what I mean. And the trees all died. They were orange trees. I don’t know why they died, they just died. Something wrong with the soil possibly or maybe the stuff we got from the nursery wasn’t the best. We complained about it. So we’ve got thirty kids there, each kid had his or her own little tree to plant and we’ve got these thirty dead trees. All these kids looking at these little brown sticks, it was depressing.
It wouldn’t have been so bad except that just a couple of weeks before the thing with the trees, the snakes all died. But I think that the snakes – well, the reason that the snakes kicked off was that ... you remember, the boiler was shut off for four days because of the strike, and that was explicable. It was something you could explain to the kids because of the strike. I mean, none of their parents would let them cross the picket line and they knew there was a strike going on and what it meant. So when things got started up again and we found the snakes they weren’t too disturbed.
With the herb gardens it was probably a case of overwatering, and at least now they know not to overwater. The children were very conscientious with the herb gardens and some of them probably ... you know, slipped them a little extra water when we weren’t looking. Or maybe ... well, I don’t like to think about sabotage, although it did occur to us. I mean, it was something that crossed our minds. We were thinking that way probably because before that the gerbils had died, and the white mice had died, and the salamander ... well, now they know not to carry them around in plastic bags.
Of course we expected the tropical fish to die, that was no surprise. Those numbers, you look at them crooked and they’re belly-up on the surface. But the lesson plan called for a tropical fish input at that point, there was nothing we could do, it happens every year, you just have to hurry past it.
We weren’t even supposed to have a puppy.
We weren’t even supposed to have one, it was just a puppy the Murdoch girl found under a Gristede’s truck one day and she was afraid the truck would run over it when the driver had finished making his delivery, so she stuck it in her knapsack and brought it to the school with her. So we had this puppy. As soon as I saw the puppy I thought, Oh Christ, I bet it will live for about two weeks and then... And that’s what it did. It wasn’t supposed to be in the classroom at all, there’s some kind of regulation about it, but you can’t tell them they can’t have a puppy when the puppy is already there, right in front of them, running around on the floor and yap yap yapping. They named it Edgar – that is, they named it after me. They had a lot of fun running after it and yelling, “Here, Edgar! Nice Edgar!” Then they’d laugh like hell. They enjoyed the ambiguity. I enjoyed it myself. I don’t mind being kidded. They made a little house for it in the supply closet and all that. I don’t know what it died of. Distemper, I guess. It probably hadn’t had any shots. I got it out of there before the kids got to school. I checked the supply closet each morning, routinely, because I knew what was going to happen. I gave it to the custodian.
And then there was this Korean orphan that the class adopted through the Help the Children program, all the kids brought in a quarter a month, that was the idea. It was an unfortunate thing, the kid’s name was Kim and maybe we adopted him too late or something. The cause of death was not stated in the letter we got, they suggested we adopt another child instead and sent us some interesting case histories, but we didn’t have the heart. The class took it pretty hard, they began (I think, nobody ever said anything to me directly) to feel that maybe there was something wrong with the school. But I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the school, particularly, I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. It was just a run of bad luck. We had an extraordinary number of parents passing away, for instance. There were I think two heart attacks and two suicides, one drowning, and four killed together in a car accident. One stroke. And we had the usual heavy mortality rate among the grandparents, or maybe it was heavier this year, it seemed so. And finally the tragedy.
The tragedy occurred when Matthew Wein and Tony Mavrogordo were playing over where they’re excavating for the new federal office building. There were all these big wooden beams stacked, you know, at the edge of the excavation. There’s a court case coming out of that, the parents are claiming that the beams were poorly stacked. I don’t know what’s true and what’s not. It’s been a strange year.


I forgot to mention Billy Brandt’s father who was knifed fatally when he grappled with a masked intruder in his home.
One day, we had a discussion in class. They asked me, where did they go? The trees, the salamander, the tropical fish, Edgar, the poppas and mommas, Matthew and Tony, where did they go? And I said, I don’t know, I don’t know. And they said, who knows? and I said, nobody knows. And they said, is death that which gives meaning to life? And I said no, life is that which gives meaning to life. Then they said, but isn’t death, considered as a fundamental datum, the means by which the taken-for-granted mundanity of the everyday may be transcended in the direction of –
I said, yes, maybe.
They said, we don’t like it.
I said, that’s sound.
They said, it’s a bloody shame!
I said, it is.
They said, will you make love now with Helen (our teaching assistant) so that we can see how it is done? We know you like Helen.
I do like Helen but I said that I would not.
We’ve heard so much about it, they said, but we’ve never seen it.
I said I would be fired and that it was never, or almost never, done as a demonstration. Helen looked out the window.
They said, please, please make love with Helen, we require an assertion of value, we are frightened.
I said that they shouldn’t be frightened (although I am often frightened) and that there was value everywhere. Helen came and embraced me. I kissed her a few times on the brow. We held each other. The children were excited. Then there was a knock on the door, I opened the door, and the new gerbil walked in. The children cheered wildly.
 

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
While interesting, this is nowhere near what I was intending to discuss when i started this conversation. of course, i suppose that is to be expected....
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
Sorry. It involves science, art, and every aspect of the human condition. It can't be pigeonholed. It appears to clearly have physical correlates, but to explain Tannhauser or Big Top Pee Wee is not a part of that conversation.
 

NorthofEngland

Well-Known Member
For me, there's still no better explanation of how hallucinogenic's are so much more than a simple 'high'
than Aldous Huxley's essays:
THE DOORS OF PERCEPTION and
HEAVEN AND HELL.

The vocabulary is difficult but Huxley is articulating 'new worlds' in the language of the old one.

At 19 years old I had 80% of the money saved for a Ford Escort XR3i (about £12000).
I look my first Acid trip and, 6 weeks later,
I'd left my job and was travelling the World.

Acid did more to alter my perspectives than most would consider possible.

After two or three trips, the idea of sacrificing years of my life doing things I disliked,
so I could afford designer label jeans or an impressive car, seemed obscene.

Experiencing life and the world in which I lived (not just the few streets around my birthplace)
became of paramount importance.
 

GregS

Well-Known Member
You might want to start reading. German Idealism goes to the subject in, among others, Hegel and Fiche. Nietzsche, who himself became unhinged, put his twists on it, and that evolves through Sartre, Camus, and other moderns. Kant is brilliant. His work fomented dissention and approbation from those who follow. See Heidegger's translations from the German for a good head fuck. A great intro to philosophy is Will Durant's "The Story of Philosophy." You will want to look into psychology. Don't leave out Jung and William James. We know that Aldous Huxley is the defacto text on chemically altered states, but we musn't lose sight of the notion that The Dystopia sucks on XBox.

Consider the arts. Much of what I count as great art was created by some pretty fucked up people. Many were considered to have been influenced by mental illness and their work derived from altered states. Think Pollock, Hemingway, and, I don't doubt, Thomas Pynchon. Then there is Rush Limbaugh, who has entirely departed reality. His is art in that it is so hysterically entertaining and devoid of any take on normalcy.

What did you expect? This is a site for stoners.
 
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