Alternating food and varying pH

Mr.Estrain

Mr.Estrain

Well-Known Member
Recently I've been thinking about these ideas. Instead of a base line of nutrients, alternate between multiple lines. They can't all be the same and I would think there might be some benefit to different nutrient sources.

I've always been in the school of thought of less is more and the plant will only eat what it can and anything extra is going to cause lockouts/imbalance. So feedings always err on the side of caution. By this train of thought there should always be some wiggle room for varying levels of nutrients without causing lockout and giving the plant something different to eat which the original line maybe wasn't.

What's your thoughts?

Also similar with pH levels. Optimal is 5.9 but I know nutrient uptake is pH dependant to some degree. What about adjusting up or down slightly from that median. Maybe like 5.5 on the low and up to 6.3 on the high side. I love these type of experiments but at this point there just hypothetical.

What are you thoughts?
 
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Hot Diggity Sog

Hot Diggity Sog

Well-Known Member
Mr.Estrain said:
Recently I've been thinking about these ideas. Instead of a base line of nutrients, alternate between multiple lines. They can't ask e be the same and I would think there might be some benefit different nutrient sources.

I've always been in the school of thought of less is more and the plant will only eat what it can and anything extra is going to cause lockouts/imbalance. So feedings always err on the side of caution. By this train of thought there should always be done wiggle room for varying levels of nutrients without causing lockout and giving the plant something different to eat which the original line maybe wasn't.

What's your thoughts?

Also similar with pH levels. Optimal is 5.9 but I know nutrient uptake is pH dependant to some degree. What about adjusting up or down slightly from that median. Maybe like 5.5 on the low and up to 6.3 on the high side. I love these type of experiments but at this point there just hypothetical.

What are you thoughts?
Click to expand...
No opinion on alternating nutrient lines but I've always been a fan of managing my PH like a sine wave. I generally stay between 5.7 and 6.2 with 5.8 being my home base - the value I find to be best if I couldn't change it.
 
Mr.Estrain

Mr.Estrain

Well-Known Member
That's awesome to hear. It makes sense theoretically, I'm going to have to do some research on the effective range for uptake. You've clearly not seen any adverse affects on that pH swing, I'm curious what the effective high and low would be. I always felt 5.9 was low, initially I never questioned it when I was younger. The fact that you like the 5.8 is interesting. What medium are you running in if you don't mind?

I've dabbled in varying nutrient lines but nothing consistent. I have a few different lines I could rotate through on a consistent basis and give'r a whirl. I'm almost certain it will be beneficial just like the pH swing.

:cool::cool::cool:
 
Ezstreet

Ezstreet

Active Member
Mr.Estrain said:
Recently I've been thinking about these ideas. Instead of a base line of nutrients, alternate between multiple lines. They can't all be the same and I would think there might be some benefit to different nutrient sources.

I've always been in the school of thought of less is more and the plant will only eat what it can and anything extra is going to cause lockouts/imbalance. So feedings always err on the side of caution. By this train of thought there should always be some wiggle room for varying levels of nutrients without causing lockout and giving the plant something different to eat which the original line maybe wasn't.

What's your thoughts?

Also similar with pH levels. Optimal is 5.9 but I know nutrient uptake is pH dependant to some degree. What about adjusting up or down slightly from that median. Maybe like 5.5 on the low and up to 6.3 on the high side. I love these type of experiments but at this point there just hypothetical.

What are you thoughts?
Click to expand...
I ph to 5.8 use half that day the next day when I water it’s risen to 6.2 and my plants seem to love it, I’m in coco/perlite
 
HGCC

HGCC

Well-Known Member
I use the same idea of a ph range, 6 is my target but winding up a few points on either side is fine. I'm in coco.

The nutrient line doesn't matter that much.
 
Mr.Estrain

Mr.Estrain

Well-Known Member
I did some pH research and it's pretty messed. It's not concrete and I've seen varying information. Seems npk aren't affected too much but phosphorous (p) sees a drop off in uptake around 6.1-6.5, depending on source of information. Another thing I read was that 5.5 was the lowest you want to go and that microbial life is adversely affected below 6.0. micro nutrients seem to uptake best on lower ph sub 6.0 however. Going to keep reading today and see what I come up with.
 
Mr.Estrain

Mr.Estrain

Well-Known Member
There's quite a few charts online they're not all completely the same but the trends are there. I think I'm going to try 5.9 and then 6.5 and alternate between the two. It seems that 6.5 is where phosphorous uptake starts to drop off. Dipping down will pick up the micros and even then it's still getting decent P. Excited to see how this goes
 
Mr.Estrain

Mr.Estrain

Well-Known Member
Soil_ph_effect_availability_plant_nutrients_TABLE-crop1047x761.pngthere are so many of these charts it's hard to say which one is right but most have this pattern or very similar.

Look at the calcium and magnesium, clearly why we have to amend with those. At the low end, 6.0, they're hardly being digested, and even at 6.5 it's not very good.

The phosphorous drop off is drastic on this chart but a common trend. It's also why I've pegged the 6.5 high as important, being able to get that full uptake.

Going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
Mr.Estrain

Mr.Estrain

Well-Known Member
Found this article. Kinda conflicted between what I'm seeing one these pH charts and this article. 5.8-6.2 is optimal according to this, in soilless. So I might try 5.8-6.5. to get that phosphorous not sure at this point. It's gonna be either one of these two though I think.

 
Arkos

Arkos

Well-Known Member
Don't mix nute lines unless you know which chemicals are in it, some use different sources and you will probably encounter problems with some chemicals not playing nice with each other.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
letting your ph drift within a certain range is a tried and true hydro technique. PH can drift quite a bit in coco too, if you check the runoff ph or do a slurry, it definitely has benefits for nutrient absorption. As for the switching nutrients around, honestly, once you get dialed in to a quality one or two part line that has everything your plants need, I don't really see a benefit. Consistency is the name of the game.
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
KISS. Alternating nutrient lines is unwise and will be harder for you to pinpoint your problems if you add a bunch of unnecessary variables. Learn to make your own custom salt blends or just use a product like jacks that makes different blends for different stages of life.

Honestly, once you move beyond grow store brands geared towards cannabis growers and go with true agricultural products like Jacks, you will find simple 1-2 part dry blends have everything plants need and you might just need a couple of additives that you use sparingly...when you go the hydro store route, you end up with 10 part lines that are mostly water and are a nightmare to mix up every few days.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
What's wrong with feeding the plant what it needs and wants with each feeding?

Most nutrients are feeding the same things just in different formulations. As far as chemical nutrients go, most start at the same factories. There is no need to switch from one company to another if the raw materials used to make their products come from the same places. The only thing that could be changed is the formulation which is typically quite easy to do using a 2 - 3 part product from one company. Manipulating the NPK ratios is a pretty easy task.
 
Mr.Estrain

Mr.Estrain

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
KISS. Alternating nutrient lines is unwise and will be harder for you to pinpoint your problems if you add a bunch of unnecessary variables. Learn to make your own custom salt blends or just use a product like jacks that makes different blends for different stages of life.

Honestly, once you move beyond grow store brands geared towards cannabis growers and go with true agricultural products like Jacks, you will find simple 1-2 part dry blends have everything plants need and you might just need a couple of additives that you use sparingly...when you go the hydro store route, you end up with 10 part lines that are mostly water and are a nightmare to mix up every few days.
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I actually used to use the six pack and created my own custom formula using a nutrient calculator. 3-1-4-2-1-4 (n-p-k-ca-mg-s). Jack's is almost as good but not quite. I got right into it years ago. I actually made a thread on thcfarmer about it. Life went sideways and I got away from it. Tbh I really should find my notes and get back to it, by far the best results I ever had. The six pack and my formula is the only one I would be confident the plant is getting everything it needs and nothing more. Whereas the lines I would think there would be some variation and by hitting it from different angles you're covering your bases..

I hear ya on pinpointing problems and diagnosing but I believe by underfeeding (75%) you prevent those issues. I believe problems arise from overfeeding, causing lockouts and a domino effect via the nutrient uptake relationships.
 
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Southernontariogrower

Southernontariogrower

Well-Known Member
I keep my ph around 6.2 during veg. and 5.8 in flower, sometimes i will drop ph down to 5.4 or 5.3 so they can absorb those nutes that can only be absorbed at that ph, can't remember what they are off the top of my head. But 5.8 allows for fluctuation up and down.
 
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