Am I killing her?

L

Lululady

Member
Okay......my first grow, of course......and....
I'm 4 months into my grow, and 2.5 weeks into flowering. I've had problems off and on most of the time. Whoever said this is like growing petunias lied. More like orchids, which I kill. I'm growing in soil under CFL's, which I've just augmented with 135W Blackstar LED. I have a total of close to 500W light now, for one plant, about 2.5 ft tall and wide. She's in either an 8 or 10 gallon pot, I forget which now. She had gotten super pot-bound in the 5 gal pot. I haven't looked at her roots since.

Two days ago I flushed her with lots of water, until the runoff had risen to close to 7. Her pH had fallen again, to maybe 5 or so. I've been using MaxiBloom half strength to feed and supplementing with Mg. I pH balance the water and let it sit to get rid of Cl. I don't think I'm over or under watering. I was having lots and lots of leaves dying, and easily fall off. Stems are red. Its bag seed, so no idea what strain. Since I flushed it seems better, not losing as many leaves, but the problem is not resolved. Am I going to lose all my leaves before its time to harvest?

I've looked at a gazillion pictures of nute problems and read descriptions, none seem to fit. The brown spots (sometimes have yellow halos) appear on the main vein and the smaller veins, the leaf margin tips look fine. Lower leaves yellow, upper leaves seem to stay green but then get scorched looking. I don't see any bugs, except I've had some fungus gnats but they're mostly gone.
Questions:
What am I doing wrong? What should I do now? :wall:
progression_lower_leaves.jpgearly_signs.jpglive_early_disease.jpg
I'm pretty sure it's a girl. I will smash some things if after 4 months I'm stuck with a boy. But could I get verification please?
is_she_girl.jpgverify_girl.jpggirl_please.jpghoping_girl.jpg
 
ZombieFarm

ZombieFarm

Member
Looks like some nute burn to me. Alot of the bottom leaves will fall off throughout your grow, it's nothing to trip about unless you start getting ALOT of leaves falling off. And yes, that's female.
 
ZombieFarm

ZombieFarm

Member
Assuming you're in soil all you need to do is add some crushed dolomite lime, 3 table spoons per gallon of soil. That should stabilize your PH. Since you've already started growing you could also mix some dolomite in with your water and top feed.

Don't drive yourself crazy chasing PH
 
L

Lululady

Member
Thank you, Zombie, for answering. I like your avatar. Is that you in the picture holding the pitchfork? ;)

Okay, you have me confused (trust me, it ain't hard). First you said she looked burnt, which would mean too many nutes, right? Then you posted a link that implied she had a deficiency of either N, P, K, or Mg, due to her red stems. I'd actually seen that chart. She doesn't really fit the symptoms other than the red stems, but then I've found symptoms can change depending on source you read. But I've considered K and have started foliar feeds of K. Are foliar feeds safer? Will the plants only take up what they need and leave the rest?

Please help me folks, I'm really afraid I'm going to have no leaves left in a couple of weeks at this rate. Four months down the drain, and I've put a lot of energy (and money) into this woman! (Now I know how you guys feel)
 
L

Lululady

Member
I did add dolomite to the soil but not as much as you suggest, and obviously not enough. I'll add some more like you suggest.

It's interesting the red stems are caused by deficiencies in all the nutrients that get locked out in acid mediums. My ph goes really low periodically. At one point it had dropped to 4. This time I caught it earlier, but according to the charts, at 5.5 in soil, which is where I was at, maybe even a bit lower, N, P, K, and Mg are locked out at 5.5, IIRC. I'd really prefer NOT to drive myself crazy with pH, but along my travels I read that organic soils have a tendency to turn acid. Lesson learned. Next time, synthetic and toxic chemicals will be the dirt du jour.
 
ZombieFarm

ZombieFarm

Member
In photo 1 of 7 the fan leaf looks to have a little burn. Could you post a photo of the entire plant?


Oh, and be careful not to over water.
 
grandaddydank

grandaddydank

Member
1st pic is nute burn looks like. 2nd pic cant really tell. ive seen the spots before, but you are already in flower so dont do anything crazy. the lime method mentioned sounds like a plan, id test the ph of the soil, my feed, my water feed, everything, and increase your drainage and/or add perlite to your potting mix, fungus gnats love wet soil that doesnt drain well. they actually can lay larvae all over your room unchecked. Maybe try to decrease any stress for a while, farther away from lights, careful water only waterings type thing
 
L

Lululady

Member
I put a ton of perlite in what soil I could when I repotted. But she was really potbound and whatever else, I couldn't break up the rootball without using a jackhammer to add perlite. So I worked a couple roots loose and scored it and added a 50% perlite mix around the rootball (5 gal to larger pot). Still, it's a plastic pot so she takes about 4 days to dry between waterings. I keep the top of the soil covered with weed fabric which is how I got rid of the gnats but also slows drying. I've thought about drilling holes in the side of the pot, make my own airpot.

So, today she looks awesome, no new crap in the last 18 hrs as far as I can tell. Hopefully its not wishful delusional thinking. Non-intervention is hard for me, not ever been typically my style. I'm a fixer type person, that makes things worse in the end. So, I did foliar sprays, two with potassium, two with phosphorus, and one with calcium (never have supplemented calcium, so what the heck?), for five in all. I now have the inventory of most garden supply stores to choose from. Maybe one of those helped? Or maybe she was getting better and none of them hurt? I don't know. I sure haven't figured this all out, it all seems so complicated compared to planting a couple hydrangeas in the ground, throw in a couple handfuls sulfur or acid fertilizer and be done for at least a couple months other than a hose watering if it doesn't rain. AND THIS IS A F'IN WEED! If only the weeds in my backyard were so temperamental, my yard would be weed-free (and a pretty large red-brown patch for my large white goofy bull terrier x to roll in).

She needs water today? What should I give her? I'm tempted to give her nothing but distilled water for the rest of the grow. I did work some dolomite lime into the top of the soil already like Zombie suggested, maybe 1/4 cup or so, there's not much loose soil to work with. There's roots right near the top, don't know if that's normal or not, but it's what I got. Oh, and before I put her into flower, I used a shish-kebab thingy to poke some holes in the rootball to increase aeration some. I felt like a mass murderer stabbing her repeatedly but figured she could recover before flowering. It didn't seem to phase her though. Nah, she's broken in half, had to be taped back together, that didn't phase her either. But get the electrolytes wrong or something and oh boy, she loses all her leaves. Geesh...... Sorry for the rant. Actually, I'm happy she may be improving but she was so bushy and lush about a week ago and now she looks more like a bamboo plant.

Please, nute and watering plan going forward from somebody who knows what they are doing because I haven't a clue.......... I'm going to hold off on watering her until morning when I can get some feedback. Oh, and I noticed today I screwed up the auto-timer (never learned to count) and she's been on 13-11 (with 13 hrs light) instead of 12-12. It won't hurt her to switch over to 12-12 now will it? Or should I keep her at 13-11? (2.5 weeks into flowering, buds have started to form, pics in o.p.)

Thanks in advance and peace to my kind friends here.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
Lululady said:
Thank you, Zombie, for answering. I like your avatar. Is that you in the picture holding the pitchfork? ;)

Okay, you have me confused (trust me, it ain't hard). First you said she looked burnt, which would mean too many nutes, right? Then you posted a link that implied she had a deficiency of either N, P, K, or Mg, due to her red stems. I'd actually seen that chart. She doesn't really fit the symptoms other than the red stems, but then I've found symptoms can change depending on source you read. But I've considered K and have started foliar feeds of K. Are foliar feeds safer? Will the plants only take up what they need and leave the rest?

Please help me folks, I'm really afraid I'm going to have no leaves left in a couple of weeks at this rate. Four months down the drain, and I've put a lot of energy (and money) into this woman! (Now I know how you guys feel)
Click to expand...
Do not do foliar feeding or any unnecessary spraying or misting of any kind once the plant is in flower. Good way to start mold in your flowers. Necessary times = insecticide. Otherwise leave the spray bottle in your veg room.
 
L

Lululady

Member
Thank you! for letting me know that. That makes sense now that I think about it. I won't do anymore spraying, promise!

That's exactly the kind of stuff I need to know. And what to put in her water now, if anything.
 
L

Lululady

Member
Thank you, boo. Looks like consensus is nute burn. Geez, I didn't feed her much, only half strength nutes and then not every time I watered. So, anybody, what should my plan be going forward for feeding? I have MaxiGrow and MaxiBloom, plus some individual supplement type stuff. Hell, I have everything now, I think.
 
L

Lululady

Member
IMG-20120808-00131.jpgIMG-20120808-00132.jpgIMG-20120808-00133.jpgIMG-20120808-00134.jpgIMG-20120808-00139.jpgIMG-20120808-00141.jpgIMG-20120808-00142.jpgIMG-20120808-00143.jpg

Sorry, I probably should have done that originally. See why I'm freaking out. In pics 3 and 4 you can see the problem well on a couple of the fans. And no, I don't normally leave cords running through the middle of my plant. I had dragged things out of the way, and that was how it ended up without having to disconnect things. I have two T-5 24 inch 55 watt CFL bulbs, one 135w CFO, a 125WCFL and some household CFL scattered around. Mylar on the walls, and a really cheap but effective filter/ventilation system using HEPA carbon filters for air filterers you can buy at the hardware store (about 4/$10, I'm using two, but you could probably get away with one, my filter is about 8"x12"), a portable desk fan, a cardboard box, and of course, duct tape.

Ya really think its nute burn? I was looking through old pics and I found one of my male at 6 weeks. He was a runt from day one, I don't know if I'd started feeding him yet. If I had, it was maybe 1/4 strength nutes. He had the same thing. There were spots on the leaf veins just starting, no tip or margin burn. See three leaf fan on left half. prob2b.jpg He gave her (above) the fungus gnats, that started the downhill slide. I should have chucked him when he wouldn't throw off his seed. She looked awesome at 6 weeks, a whole lot better than now. I should have put her into flower right then. And no red stems! fullview#1b.jpg

She was bone dry so I went ahead and watered with maybe 1/8 strength nutes. I didn't know what to do so I played it down the middle. I'm very worried she isn't going to make it another 6-10 weeks, unless I fix whatever is wrong.
 
Twiggs1620

Twiggs1620

Member
Ever considered that it might be a outdoor loving strain? i mean i have no experience with indoor but from my outdoor experience i can tell you that some bag seeds just dont develope well. Depending on how good the bag was and how mature the seed was before they harvested the bud this can lead to a number of deforms. Ive had plants grew only having one 5 leaf on it. They look super bushey for a indoor plant. In my opinion the bushier the plant is the more light it needs. What is your lighting cycle from germination?
 
L

Lululady

Member
No, I never considered it might be an outdoor strain. I didn't know there were outdoor strains. I have a feeling the bag seed IS part of the problem, out of six seeds, only two sprouted, and the other one was major problems (sure hope so anyways). But she has looked good in the past.

I kept lights on 24/7 until flowering as I accumulated some lights and got some kind of grow room ready. Then she was on 13 on/11off for 2 1/2 weeks because I can't count, and as of today she'll be 12/12. She looks like she's budding okay, I think. But losing all her leaves. Ya think she looks bushy? I see other folks plants here, saying they have problems, and they look MUCH nicer to me.

Putting her outside is not an option. Or she'd be outside.
 
grandaddydank

grandaddydank

Member
Lululady said:
I put a ton of perlite in what soil I could when I repotted. But she was really potbound and whatever else, I couldn't break up the rootball without using a jackhammer to add perlite. So I worked a couple roots loose and scored it and added a 50% perlite mix around the rootball (5 gal to larger pot). Still, it's a plastic pot so she takes about 4 days to dry between waterings. I keep the top of the soil covered with weed fabric which is how I got rid of the gnats but also slows drying. I've thought about drilling holes in the side of the pot, make my own airpot.

So, today she looks awesome, no new crap in the last 18 hrs as far as I can tell. Hopefully its not wishful delusional thinking. Non-intervention is hard for me, not ever been typically my style. I'm a fixer type person, that makes things worse in the end. So, I did foliar sprays, two with potassium, two with phosphorus, and one with calcium (never have supplemented calcium, so what the heck?), for five in all. I now have the inventory of most garden supply stores to choose from. Maybe one of those helped? Or maybe she was getting better and none of them hurt? I don't know. I sure haven't figured this all out, it all seems so complicated compared to planting a couple hydrangeas in the ground, throw in a couple handfuls sulfur or acid fertilizer and be done for at least a couple months other than a hose watering if it doesn't rain. AND THIS IS A F'IN WEED! If only the weeds in my backyard were so temperamental, my yard would be weed-free (and a pretty large red-brown patch for my large white goofy bull terrier x to roll in).

She needs water today? What should I give her? I'm tempted to give her nothing but distilled water for the rest of the grow. I did work some dolomite lime into the top of the soil already like Zombie suggested, maybe 1/4 cup or so, there's not much loose soil to work with. There's roots right near the top, don't know if that's normal or not, but it's what I got. Oh, and before I put her into flower, I used a shish-kebab thingy to poke some holes in the rootball to increase aeration some. I felt like a mass murderer stabbing her repeatedly but figured she could recover before flowering. It didn't seem to phase her though. Nah, she's broken in half, had to be taped back together, that didn't phase her either. But get the electrolytes wrong or something and oh boy, she loses all her leaves. Geesh...... Sorry for the rant. Actually, I'm happy she may be improving but she was so bushy and lush about a week ago and now she looks more like a bamboo plant.

Please, nute and watering plan going forward from somebody who knows what they are doing because I haven't a clue.......... I'm going to hold off on watering her until morning when I can get some feedback. Oh, and I noticed today I screwed up the auto-timer (never learned to count) and she's been on 13-11 (with 13 hrs light) instead of 12-12. It won't hurt her to switch over to 12-12 now will it? Or should I keep her at 13-11? (2.5 weeks into flowering, buds have started to form, pics in o.p.)

Thanks in advance and peace to my kind friends here.
Click to expand...
best bet is to back off and stick with properly pHed 6.6 water, dechlorinated or spring/ro. if you already have some popcorn nugs you might be able to just stop feeding, water to harvest
 
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