AMA Finally Gets It!
- Thread starter Moldy
- Start date
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter, cat's out of the bag already so to speak.
It really is just about the last nail in the coffin.
Dirty Harry
Well-Known Member
I hope your right. I do admit I am pessimistic about politics and government. The govt. is supposed to work for the citizens, but all I ever see is them working for themselves and us citizens are a nuisance to them.
Eire
Member
More states than today had legalized marijuana back in the 60's and 70's. This wasn't taxable medical marijuana with conditions for growing and sales. It was just plain legal. Massachusetts (or was is Michigan) allowed an annual smoke-out on the steps and front lawn of the state capital all the way into the 90's.
Everyone back then thought it was a foregone conclusion too. So the momentum died. Then Reagan declared war on drugs and the long dark night began for marijuana.
Now we may have good polls and see states legalizing medical marijuana and think it's all downhill from here. But the opponents of legalization are much better organized, funded, brainwashed, and filled with righteous zeal than ever before. They don't need to be in the majority. Hell, they don't even need the law on their side. Otherwise they wouldn't be busting people that are working inside the medical marijuana laws!
No, we must not rest. It is just now when we are feeling tremors of liberty that the rest of the world is getting ever more antagonistic towards marijuana. In many countries efforts are being made to strengthen prohibition of marijuana. China is an ever more influential opponent of marijuana. Even the hallowed image of Amsterdam is being tarnished with efforts to increase prohibition of marijuana.
The effects of America's past efforts at influence are now having their delayed effects. Eventually, and especially if we have 'softened' on marijuana those other countries will begin to influence us back. They will call us hypocrites since we asked them to get strict and we loosened up. They will use our own international laws and rules in the united nations to turn our own requirements for anti-drug efforts against us.
So if we don't have strong laws and widespread acceptance when that wave of influence turns back towards us, then we will fall again into darkness. Now more than ever we need to stick together and keep working at it. We need to find local groups and attend meetings. Sign petitions and spend some time getting them signed by others. Investigate which politicians local and federal support our cause and support them in return.
And aside from all things, keep spreading the word and be strong. Even if we live where we can finally be legal, we lucky few have as much responsibility as those who are still working for laws in their states. We still feel the need to sneak around like we're being stalked. We still fear enough that we cave too easily when offered a plea instead of standing up to injustice. We certainly don't talk much about marijuana outside our own community.
So we may be legal, but we have yet to achieve liberty. We won't be there until we can declare in public without hushed tone or concern for who might hear that we use marijuana. When we can be friendly with a cop because we expect the law to defend us and not persecute us. When we can offer information on the benefits of marijuana to someone in need without being doubted, suspected, and marked as a 'stupid' stoner.
Hopefully more people will sue back instead of pleading out. Then the authorities might get the message that it is they who are on the wrong side of us, not the other way around. Then the public might see these district attorneys' offices and commissioners are rogue organizations and vote different people into the jobs, or those who appoint positions will see the wrongs done as avoidable costs and appoint different people.
Hopefully more people might bring up the conversation of marijuana in mixed company to spread the word not only of the benefits and safety of marijuana but of the comfort we feel and respect that we expect in speaking about it. Then others might see that we are neither stupid nor dense but intelligent, informed, and determined individuals who deserve the same assumption of responsibility in consuming marijuana as those who drink alcohol, smoke a good cigar, take aspirin, or eat food. Of course they should see that the only real difference is that marijuana users can't die from poisoning or an exploded stomach.
When these things happen and the general population is better aware and informed, when taxes build schools and playgrounds instead of more cops and prisons, when doctors support this cheaper medication so we can afford more preventive visits to their offices, when crime drops and brotherhood grows, we might gain the support that will give our cause the momentum to shatter the barriers between us all. That is worthy work. That is what should get us up from the couch and out to greet a world worth changing.
So we must keep moving forward and doing what we can to help. Even if that is just bringing up the subject of legalization during Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner. Who knows how many later conversations you will engender and how many converts to our cause that might create. Who knows how many such dominoes it takes to start the cascade that will run through every part of American life and finally return to us to tip over the last brick of opposition.
I dream of a better world where I can use and discuss the use of marijuana with no stigma, no impact on my career, and no legal worries. I dream of standing tall in the open light of day and declaring my preference for marijuana proudly. I dream that if anyone comes into my house to take my marijuana it will be a robbery and not confiscation. I dream of loving the neighborhood cops who keep us safe instead of fearing them, of being able to invite them into my house and serve them coffee while I smoke a joint and discuss how I can help keep my neighborhood safe from real trouble.
I dream of freedom and liberty as we all wish it really could be. I dream of an America where we are all on the same side and the same page. Where we can be ourselves without fear or anger. Where we stick together because it makes us strong instead of being driven apart by mutual suspicion because profiteers know that to divide us is to conquer us. That is why I tell you most emphatically that our greatest challenge is not to defend ourselves from attacks by outsiders but from the divisions we bring against ourselves from within.
So let's make this coming year better than any before. Let's support the wedge of regulate and tax bills that can crack and break asunder the monolithic oppositions to our cause. Let's vow to stand up to the authorities when they illegally persecute us, and sue back instead of taking the pleas they offer. Let's start now to speak up and promote all the good things we know about marijuana.
I do so vow to continue to press my cause as I have done in converting my brother, a life-long marine to the idea that he fights for my freedom and liberty, not against it. I vow to work for smaller companies that do not drug test rather than big companies that micromanage my private life. I vow to be active and alert and aggressively show that I am not couch-locked when I am not treating my insomnia. I vow to bring up the issues of legalizing marijuana and promoting protection and respect for users whenever I can, especially when I have the opportunity to challenge someone to convert to our cause.
I vow that this will be a better year than any before, and so will be the next and the next. I vow to stop wishing and start acting, to stop arguing and start persuading, to step over division into unity, to stop being a victim and become the victor.
GMLOGMD, A.
Everyone back then thought it was a foregone conclusion too. So the momentum died. Then Reagan declared war on drugs and the long dark night began for marijuana.
Now we may have good polls and see states legalizing medical marijuana and think it's all downhill from here. But the opponents of legalization are much better organized, funded, brainwashed, and filled with righteous zeal than ever before. They don't need to be in the majority. Hell, they don't even need the law on their side. Otherwise they wouldn't be busting people that are working inside the medical marijuana laws!
No, we must not rest. It is just now when we are feeling tremors of liberty that the rest of the world is getting ever more antagonistic towards marijuana. In many countries efforts are being made to strengthen prohibition of marijuana. China is an ever more influential opponent of marijuana. Even the hallowed image of Amsterdam is being tarnished with efforts to increase prohibition of marijuana.
The effects of America's past efforts at influence are now having their delayed effects. Eventually, and especially if we have 'softened' on marijuana those other countries will begin to influence us back. They will call us hypocrites since we asked them to get strict and we loosened up. They will use our own international laws and rules in the united nations to turn our own requirements for anti-drug efforts against us.
So if we don't have strong laws and widespread acceptance when that wave of influence turns back towards us, then we will fall again into darkness. Now more than ever we need to stick together and keep working at it. We need to find local groups and attend meetings. Sign petitions and spend some time getting them signed by others. Investigate which politicians local and federal support our cause and support them in return.
And aside from all things, keep spreading the word and be strong. Even if we live where we can finally be legal, we lucky few have as much responsibility as those who are still working for laws in their states. We still feel the need to sneak around like we're being stalked. We still fear enough that we cave too easily when offered a plea instead of standing up to injustice. We certainly don't talk much about marijuana outside our own community.
So we may be legal, but we have yet to achieve liberty. We won't be there until we can declare in public without hushed tone or concern for who might hear that we use marijuana. When we can be friendly with a cop because we expect the law to defend us and not persecute us. When we can offer information on the benefits of marijuana to someone in need without being doubted, suspected, and marked as a 'stupid' stoner.
Hopefully more people will sue back instead of pleading out. Then the authorities might get the message that it is they who are on the wrong side of us, not the other way around. Then the public might see these district attorneys' offices and commissioners are rogue organizations and vote different people into the jobs, or those who appoint positions will see the wrongs done as avoidable costs and appoint different people.
Hopefully more people might bring up the conversation of marijuana in mixed company to spread the word not only of the benefits and safety of marijuana but of the comfort we feel and respect that we expect in speaking about it. Then others might see that we are neither stupid nor dense but intelligent, informed, and determined individuals who deserve the same assumption of responsibility in consuming marijuana as those who drink alcohol, smoke a good cigar, take aspirin, or eat food. Of course they should see that the only real difference is that marijuana users can't die from poisoning or an exploded stomach.
When these things happen and the general population is better aware and informed, when taxes build schools and playgrounds instead of more cops and prisons, when doctors support this cheaper medication so we can afford more preventive visits to their offices, when crime drops and brotherhood grows, we might gain the support that will give our cause the momentum to shatter the barriers between us all. That is worthy work. That is what should get us up from the couch and out to greet a world worth changing.
So we must keep moving forward and doing what we can to help. Even if that is just bringing up the subject of legalization during Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner. Who knows how many later conversations you will engender and how many converts to our cause that might create. Who knows how many such dominoes it takes to start the cascade that will run through every part of American life and finally return to us to tip over the last brick of opposition.
I dream of a better world where I can use and discuss the use of marijuana with no stigma, no impact on my career, and no legal worries. I dream of standing tall in the open light of day and declaring my preference for marijuana proudly. I dream that if anyone comes into my house to take my marijuana it will be a robbery and not confiscation. I dream of loving the neighborhood cops who keep us safe instead of fearing them, of being able to invite them into my house and serve them coffee while I smoke a joint and discuss how I can help keep my neighborhood safe from real trouble.
I dream of freedom and liberty as we all wish it really could be. I dream of an America where we are all on the same side and the same page. Where we can be ourselves without fear or anger. Where we stick together because it makes us strong instead of being driven apart by mutual suspicion because profiteers know that to divide us is to conquer us. That is why I tell you most emphatically that our greatest challenge is not to defend ourselves from attacks by outsiders but from the divisions we bring against ourselves from within.
So let's make this coming year better than any before. Let's support the wedge of regulate and tax bills that can crack and break asunder the monolithic oppositions to our cause. Let's vow to stand up to the authorities when they illegally persecute us, and sue back instead of taking the pleas they offer. Let's start now to speak up and promote all the good things we know about marijuana.
I do so vow to continue to press my cause as I have done in converting my brother, a life-long marine to the idea that he fights for my freedom and liberty, not against it. I vow to work for smaller companies that do not drug test rather than big companies that micromanage my private life. I vow to be active and alert and aggressively show that I am not couch-locked when I am not treating my insomnia. I vow to bring up the issues of legalizing marijuana and promoting protection and respect for users whenever I can, especially when I have the opportunity to challenge someone to convert to our cause.
I vow that this will be a better year than any before, and so will be the next and the next. I vow to stop wishing and start acting, to stop arguing and start persuading, to step over division into unity, to stop being a victim and become the victor.
GMLOGMD, A.
CrackerJax
New Member
Just be aware that if weed goes the medical route, there will be very strict regiments put in place for growing standards. It will be treated as a drug, and consequently 99% of all you growers out there will be disqualified from producing it.
Unless you are able to grow in a specific way utilizing medical standards (like Pharma does now), you will become a consumer ONLY.
Complete medical legalization will take weed out of the common growers hands.
Unless you are able to grow in a specific way utilizing medical standards (like Pharma does now), you will become a consumer ONLY.
Complete medical legalization will take weed out of the common growers hands.
NewGrowth
Well-Known Member
I still don't think that would stop me from growing my own
CrackerJax
New Member
U don't huh... yes u can still grow, but nothing will change for you. U'll still be considered a criminal.I still don't think that would stop me from growing my own
Yes, there will be a consolidation. The emphasis will be on growing completely disease free weed for medical, for "safety" issues. They will give you MMJ and then thump anyone who tries to subvert it by growing their own.
Eire
Member
Crackerjax, you don't know what you're talking about. You are spouting paranoid fatalism.
First, the whole reason to get involved is to have a say about what happens. If you don't want to get involved because you think that it won't work out your way anyway then fine, and to hell with you. Keep telling yourself how great you are to be above doing anything useful because you can see failure coming when others waste their efforts and foolishly hope for success. Good for you.
Second, there is absolutely no chance of what you say happening. The fact is that even if the govt and pharmaceutical got all involved and took over the process they still wouldn't give a rat's ass about people who grow their own. They would only care about people who tried to SELL it.
Just like beer companies, they know that there are too few people who will opt to grow their own when there's already good quality available at a store. So if there are people that want to brew their own and maybe even share it with friends and neighbors, then it's no big deal.
Only when some idiot tries to set up a big operation and sell it all over the place would they care, and so would I. I have drunk beer brewed by friends and it's great. But I would never buy it from some yahoo who I don't know because there would be no telling what kind of dangerous crap that idiot might have put into it, or if he didn't allow it to be infected with some bad bacteria or fungus or whatever. So you're damn right that I'd want that imbecile arrested before he poisoned someone.
So Crackerjax, if you're just being paranoid then you can relax, and do get involved anyway so you can make sure your voice is heard by those who will write future laws.
On the other hand, if you're just lazy and are making up excuses for not getting up off the couch, then fine but stop being a downer on others who might want to contribute, you jerk.
Or if you're a drug dealer or a wannabe and are throwing wrenches to protect your business, then you are ruining it all for the rest of us and I hope that you get busted flat, you scumbag.
Finally, if you are an opponent of marijuana and spend your time trolling these forums for any chance to throw wrenches and imbue negativity then I tell you now that you are wasting your time. We WILL keep moving forward. We WILL keep making progress. We will NEVER give up. And you will LOSE, sucker!
First, the whole reason to get involved is to have a say about what happens. If you don't want to get involved because you think that it won't work out your way anyway then fine, and to hell with you. Keep telling yourself how great you are to be above doing anything useful because you can see failure coming when others waste their efforts and foolishly hope for success. Good for you.
Second, there is absolutely no chance of what you say happening. The fact is that even if the govt and pharmaceutical got all involved and took over the process they still wouldn't give a rat's ass about people who grow their own. They would only care about people who tried to SELL it.
Just like beer companies, they know that there are too few people who will opt to grow their own when there's already good quality available at a store. So if there are people that want to brew their own and maybe even share it with friends and neighbors, then it's no big deal.
Only when some idiot tries to set up a big operation and sell it all over the place would they care, and so would I. I have drunk beer brewed by friends and it's great. But I would never buy it from some yahoo who I don't know because there would be no telling what kind of dangerous crap that idiot might have put into it, or if he didn't allow it to be infected with some bad bacteria or fungus or whatever. So you're damn right that I'd want that imbecile arrested before he poisoned someone.
So Crackerjax, if you're just being paranoid then you can relax, and do get involved anyway so you can make sure your voice is heard by those who will write future laws.
On the other hand, if you're just lazy and are making up excuses for not getting up off the couch, then fine but stop being a downer on others who might want to contribute, you jerk.
Or if you're a drug dealer or a wannabe and are throwing wrenches to protect your business, then you are ruining it all for the rest of us and I hope that you get busted flat, you scumbag.
Finally, if you are an opponent of marijuana and spend your time trolling these forums for any chance to throw wrenches and imbue negativity then I tell you now that you are wasting your time. We WILL keep moving forward. We WILL keep making progress. We will NEVER give up. And you will LOSE, sucker!
CrackerJax
New Member
Why the drama? I'm certainly not paranoid, merely experienced on how things get done in this country via politics.
It is LOGICAL to think that MEDICAL marijuana will be strictly controlled in its production.
Do you know actually how "clean" ur harvest is? Ever have it examined under a high powered microscope to see what else is on ur grow?
Out of sight, out of mind may work for you, but it won't in the medical world. How many parasites and spores are on ur grow? The emphasis on MMJ is the first letter M, medical. "clean" will be the buzz word. Regular growers will not be "clean".
It's not paranoia, it's understanding on how things play out.
If I burst ur little bubble, I'm sorry. It doesn't alter the facts though.
Once MMJ becomes the "norm", consolidation will occur, and many many growers will be excluded. It will become an industry based on lab work and clean grow ops that can meet medical standards. Things like inspections and testing of grow ops will be the norm, just as it is today for other things legal and REGULATED.
It is LOGICAL to think that MEDICAL marijuana will be strictly controlled in its production.
Do you know actually how "clean" ur harvest is? Ever have it examined under a high powered microscope to see what else is on ur grow?
Out of sight, out of mind may work for you, but it won't in the medical world. How many parasites and spores are on ur grow? The emphasis on MMJ is the first letter M, medical. "clean" will be the buzz word. Regular growers will not be "clean".
It's not paranoia, it's understanding on how things play out.
If I burst ur little bubble, I'm sorry. It doesn't alter the facts though.
Once MMJ becomes the "norm", consolidation will occur, and many many growers will be excluded. It will become an industry based on lab work and clean grow ops that can meet medical standards. Things like inspections and testing of grow ops will be the norm, just as it is today for other things legal and REGULATED.
Eire
Member
There is no drama, just you talking from total ignorance and the mistaken belief that you know how things work when you don't. It's you that are living in a bubble of false confidence in your logic that is completely faulty.
How clean is a home brew? Alcohol was once prohibited and has had 80 years to "consolidate". So why is it still legal to brew your own? Why hasn't your "logic" panned out the same way? Because you don't know what you're talking about.
It's a simple cost/benefit analysis. There may well be big corporate agriculture of marijuana, just as there is big corporate production of alcohol. Those corporate interests will definitely keep pressure on to go after those selling black market marijuana just as there is for alcohol. But it is only right for public health and safety that it should be so. I agree with it.
But the costs of promoting laws and enforcement on people who only grow or brew for their own use is way beyond what it's worth to them, not only in cash but in public displeasure and bad publicity. Once Marijuana is legal and regulated the same as alcohol, people will react the same towards too-tight restrictions on it as they would about alcohol.
The benefits would also be extremely small because the percentage of those who choose to grow their own marijuana will be the same as that of those who choose to brew their own beer or make their own wine. Hell, they can do the same as they do with beer and wine, sell home kits and they will make more off of that than any benefit they might make from trying to stop it.
So as you can see, my logic is true and yours is very faulty. You follow nonsensical reasoning that can only be described as paranoid. It's not an insult, it's a clinical appraisal.
But you are right when you sense some anger and frustration. This is because you are not only wrong, but you are discouraging people from even trying to improve things because of your wrong, overly negative views and defeatist attitude. If it were up to attitudes like yours, we wouldn't even have medical marijuana rights.
So I ask you, what is the benefit of giving up as you advise? How does that help anything or anyone? How is anything ever going to change if you don't try? How much more will those big corporate interest slant things in their favor if you just lay down for them? How is your approach in any way beneficial?
If it were just you being a downer and giving up like a coward then I would stand back and let you take yourself down. But you are throwing wrenches into the process for everyone. Who knows if it will come down to a point where if we had just a couple of more people then it would turn our way? If so and downer defeatists like you have chipped away at the movement then we could end up having prohibition reinstated.
So yeah, it pisses me off when someone not only wants to surrender but also wants to take as many other people with them as possible just to validate their own defeatism. It sucks, buddy. You need to start looking up or at least stop dragging others down to your level.
How clean is a home brew? Alcohol was once prohibited and has had 80 years to "consolidate". So why is it still legal to brew your own? Why hasn't your "logic" panned out the same way? Because you don't know what you're talking about.
It's a simple cost/benefit analysis. There may well be big corporate agriculture of marijuana, just as there is big corporate production of alcohol. Those corporate interests will definitely keep pressure on to go after those selling black market marijuana just as there is for alcohol. But it is only right for public health and safety that it should be so. I agree with it.
But the costs of promoting laws and enforcement on people who only grow or brew for their own use is way beyond what it's worth to them, not only in cash but in public displeasure and bad publicity. Once Marijuana is legal and regulated the same as alcohol, people will react the same towards too-tight restrictions on it as they would about alcohol.
The benefits would also be extremely small because the percentage of those who choose to grow their own marijuana will be the same as that of those who choose to brew their own beer or make their own wine. Hell, they can do the same as they do with beer and wine, sell home kits and they will make more off of that than any benefit they might make from trying to stop it.
So as you can see, my logic is true and yours is very faulty. You follow nonsensical reasoning that can only be described as paranoid. It's not an insult, it's a clinical appraisal.
But you are right when you sense some anger and frustration. This is because you are not only wrong, but you are discouraging people from even trying to improve things because of your wrong, overly negative views and defeatist attitude. If it were up to attitudes like yours, we wouldn't even have medical marijuana rights.
So I ask you, what is the benefit of giving up as you advise? How does that help anything or anyone? How is anything ever going to change if you don't try? How much more will those big corporate interest slant things in their favor if you just lay down for them? How is your approach in any way beneficial?
If it were just you being a downer and giving up like a coward then I would stand back and let you take yourself down. But you are throwing wrenches into the process for everyone. Who knows if it will come down to a point where if we had just a couple of more people then it would turn our way? If so and downer defeatists like you have chipped away at the movement then we could end up having prohibition reinstated.
So yeah, it pisses me off when someone not only wants to surrender but also wants to take as many other people with them as possible just to validate their own defeatism. It sucks, buddy. You need to start looking up or at least stop dragging others down to your level.
Eire
Member
And I've re-read your post and it seems that you are coming at it from the point of view of a professional grower who does it for profit. If that's so then say so and stop trying to scare people into thinking that their little patch they grow just for themselves will be treated the same as a bigger, for-profit enterprise.
And even if we are talking about a bigger, for-profit operation, have you ever heard of micro breweries? It's very profitable for both supplier and restaurants to deal in custom brews. These are gourmet brews that cost more because they are made with special care and they are better. They are also regulated, but that doesn't put them out of business. It's actually another excuse to charge more for them.
So the same system would grow up around marijuana and if you wanted to grow for sale you could do so. That means that regardless of whether we speak of a home grow for personal use or a micro grow for profit, your predicted scenario is wrong and won't happen.
So why are you really against legalization? ARE you a dealer? At least then I could understand your motivations. But I would still be pissed that you would try to harm the whole movement for strictly personal gain. That would make you a pretty unworthy member of our community.
And even if we are talking about a bigger, for-profit operation, have you ever heard of micro breweries? It's very profitable for both supplier and restaurants to deal in custom brews. These are gourmet brews that cost more because they are made with special care and they are better. They are also regulated, but that doesn't put them out of business. It's actually another excuse to charge more for them.
So the same system would grow up around marijuana and if you wanted to grow for sale you could do so. That means that regardless of whether we speak of a home grow for personal use or a micro grow for profit, your predicted scenario is wrong and won't happen.
So why are you really against legalization? ARE you a dealer? At least then I could understand your motivations. But I would still be pissed that you would try to harm the whole movement for strictly personal gain. That would make you a pretty unworthy member of our community.
CrackerJax
New Member
How am I discouraging anyone? I'm just not going to paint a Polly Anna picture for ppl to be gulled by.
Do you know what medical standards are?
This is just the beginning and weed may very well succeed as a medical plant, but don't kid urself. It won't be "I can now grow weed all day with impunity", or "I can grow weed and sell it in the medical field.
UHHHH, no, it will morph (as all things do) into a regulated medical commodity and the "ordinary" grower will NOT be included in the equation.
I'm just a realist with lots of experience on how things get done.
Once MMJ sweeps the country, big AGRI will be called upon by big PHARMA to produce it. They won't be calling you, unless you have a hort degree and a serious and large nursery.
Call it a reality check, it's not negative, unless you thought somehow MMJ was a doorway for total legalization. It isn't. If anything it will harden the line for some ppl. The attitude will be, that's enough, we now have MMJ medically, so no further legalization is necessary.
Don't think so? Just wait.....Cracker is very very good at seeing the patterns. You can bank on this one.
The small grower will be cast aside with MMJ. It will be farmed and it will be controlled to lab specifications.
By the way, you never answered my posit. Do you know what's on ur grow? I sure don't.
MEDICAL ......
Do you know what medical standards are?
This is just the beginning and weed may very well succeed as a medical plant, but don't kid urself. It won't be "I can now grow weed all day with impunity", or "I can grow weed and sell it in the medical field.
UHHHH, no, it will morph (as all things do) into a regulated medical commodity and the "ordinary" grower will NOT be included in the equation.
I'm just a realist with lots of experience on how things get done.
Once MMJ sweeps the country, big AGRI will be called upon by big PHARMA to produce it. They won't be calling you, unless you have a hort degree and a serious and large nursery.
Call it a reality check, it's not negative, unless you thought somehow MMJ was a doorway for total legalization. It isn't. If anything it will harden the line for some ppl. The attitude will be, that's enough, we now have MMJ medically, so no further legalization is necessary.
Don't think so? Just wait.....Cracker is very very good at seeing the patterns. You can bank on this one.
The small grower will be cast aside with MMJ. It will be farmed and it will be controlled to lab specifications.
By the way, you never answered my posit. Do you know what's on ur grow? I sure don't.
MEDICAL ......
Eire
Member
So you think they're going to go door to door looking for every little grow? No, they will regulate those who wish to SELL their product. They can't find and inspect all the personal grows right now when they have a legal mandate to do so. They will have even less motivation when it is legal.
And if they tried they would get pounded in the courts because it is one thing to go after every little grow you can find when it is illegal, but once it is legal then the law requires assumption of innocence. They would not be allowed to assume you are breaking the law when there is every possibility that you are legal. That is precisely why they can't go door to door looking for personal brews now.
You think it is different for marijuana? It isn't. You think they will do things differently, they won't. They have every motivation to do things the same. It will actually benefit them to do so. Yes they will regulate for-profit grows, just like they do with beer and wine and it doesn't hurt them. There are plenty of mom and pop micro breweries around. Very often these folks just hope and pray to get popular enough to be bought out by the big guys. It's a win-win for both.
The big corporations will WANT to do it the same as for beer and wine. They will avoid all the costs of research and experimentation, taste testing, market testing, and all the other investments in a new line of products. Rather, they let the little guy have all his fun doing all that and taking all the risk if it doesn't pan out.
But those costs are much smaller for a little guy and he can keep trying until he gets it right. Then the big guys can swoop in and buy him out for a very gratifying amount, making him happy as hell. And it would still cost them less than going through all of that preliminary work for themselves.
So not only do you not have a clue how things work and how they will play out, but you don't even know how business really works. You're talking out of your ass, little buddy. Sorry to pop your little bubble.
Also, no I don't know what would be on my grow if I had one. But I'm not trying to sell it so I'm the only one who has to worry about it and that's my choice. Just like it's the worry and the choice of those who brew their own beer. It's exactly the same in all ways.
Oh, and how are you discouraging people? You're discouraging people by confusing them with your stupid lose-lose scenarios in which they lose if things stay the way they are and by your foolish illogic they lose if they try to change things. By your thinking there is no good way, everything is bad and will fail.
So what are they supposed to do? Tell me what people are supposed to support? What system do you support? Or are you just all about telling people why their ideas won't work when you have none of your own? So what's your solution, Mr. Wannabe Genius? Let's hear you say something productive rather than destructive for once. Anyone can throw stones, so you're just another sad sack if that's all you've got.
And if they tried they would get pounded in the courts because it is one thing to go after every little grow you can find when it is illegal, but once it is legal then the law requires assumption of innocence. They would not be allowed to assume you are breaking the law when there is every possibility that you are legal. That is precisely why they can't go door to door looking for personal brews now.
You think it is different for marijuana? It isn't. You think they will do things differently, they won't. They have every motivation to do things the same. It will actually benefit them to do so. Yes they will regulate for-profit grows, just like they do with beer and wine and it doesn't hurt them. There are plenty of mom and pop micro breweries around. Very often these folks just hope and pray to get popular enough to be bought out by the big guys. It's a win-win for both.
The big corporations will WANT to do it the same as for beer and wine. They will avoid all the costs of research and experimentation, taste testing, market testing, and all the other investments in a new line of products. Rather, they let the little guy have all his fun doing all that and taking all the risk if it doesn't pan out.
But those costs are much smaller for a little guy and he can keep trying until he gets it right. Then the big guys can swoop in and buy him out for a very gratifying amount, making him happy as hell. And it would still cost them less than going through all of that preliminary work for themselves.
So not only do you not have a clue how things work and how they will play out, but you don't even know how business really works. You're talking out of your ass, little buddy. Sorry to pop your little bubble.
Also, no I don't know what would be on my grow if I had one. But I'm not trying to sell it so I'm the only one who has to worry about it and that's my choice. Just like it's the worry and the choice of those who brew their own beer. It's exactly the same in all ways.
Oh, and how are you discouraging people? You're discouraging people by confusing them with your stupid lose-lose scenarios in which they lose if things stay the way they are and by your foolish illogic they lose if they try to change things. By your thinking there is no good way, everything is bad and will fail.
So what are they supposed to do? Tell me what people are supposed to support? What system do you support? Or are you just all about telling people why their ideas won't work when you have none of your own? So what's your solution, Mr. Wannabe Genius? Let's hear you say something productive rather than destructive for once. Anyone can throw stones, so you're just another sad sack if that's all you've got.
ndangerspecimen101
Well-Known Member
This is truly a federal VS. state issue.. and the federal would never win... some states will always refuse the legality of cannabis no matter how much medical evidence that proves otherwise!
ndangerspecimen101
Well-Known Member
...and another thing if people want to argue side effects then I see no bad symptoms other than an overly exuberate smile on patients faces... rather then the psychosis state exhibited by patients smoothered by narcotic pain relievers!
Eire
Member
ndangerspecimen101, you are a voice of reason. And you are correct. At best the Fed would step back and let the states handle it as they will. But that would be a vast improvement. And there is nothing in your logic that supports surrender, true? So the only thing we can do is keep plugging away at it. We can't let the nay-sayers get us down.
There's no sense in just giving up. I took the easy way and moved to a location that allowed at least medical use. So I will pick up the fight here where it stands and try to help push it even further to give more rights and protection to users. But if I couldn't leave my old state then I still wouldn't have given up. It is always worth it to keep trying to change things.
Many other people thought the same back when it was still illegal here. They kept up the fight for what they knew was right. Many of them passed away before they ever got to see even a part of their dreams come true. But I'm sure that even at the end they never regretted it or thought they had wasted their lives. It's always worth it to keep trying. Humanity itself would not be where we are if it were otherwise.
There's no sense in just giving up. I took the easy way and moved to a location that allowed at least medical use. So I will pick up the fight here where it stands and try to help push it even further to give more rights and protection to users. But if I couldn't leave my old state then I still wouldn't have given up. It is always worth it to keep trying to change things.
Many other people thought the same back when it was still illegal here. They kept up the fight for what they knew was right. Many of them passed away before they ever got to see even a part of their dreams come true. But I'm sure that even at the end they never regretted it or thought they had wasted their lives. It's always worth it to keep trying. Humanity itself would not be where we are if it were otherwise.
CrackerJax
New Member
I'm talking about MMJ. Isn't that the topic of the thread? Like I told NG, if you want to grow personally for urself, u can ... illegally. We all have that today. We had that in the 60's ... no change there. But if you think ur going to be allowed to legally grow ur own MMJ ... uhhh, no, that's not going to happen. In the beginning, perhaps. As MMJ starts to be brought into the medical and business models however, that will all end, for your own safety I assume the explanation will be.
Beer & wine are not medical. ur getting urself all confused.
Beer & wine are not medical. ur getting urself all confused.
OregonMeds
Well-Known Member
Cracker we are not done at medical this is just the beginning, the majority of weed has and always will be recreational and while there may end up a medical super clean sterile supply for some no doubt there will be lesser qualities also.
You both are going overboard if we could mash you together you'd both make one decent stoner.
You both are going overboard if we could mash you together you'd both make one decent stoner.
Eire
Member
We can right now grow our own legally. We just can't grow quantities for sale. I think it's you who are confusing grows for personal use and grows for sale.
For personal use the point is that we need more rights and better protection from overzealous authorities. It is very worth it to put effort into that so we can better protect those rights if people do try to use your arguments to stop it. Only if we give up and lay down will we be begging for that to happen. So to take your advice and do nothing will promote the ends you predict. Good work designing and supporting your own little self-fulfilling prophesy. Would it make you feel good to fail as long as you could say you told us so?
For-profit grows are different, but not the way you claim. Whether you use the word medical or not, both alcohol and marijuana are 'controlled substances'. The difference is that no one ever claimed that alcohol had medical benefits (though it does). So marijuana has the edge there. But even though we need a recommendation for use now, it is conceivable and a short step from prescribed to over the counter sales.
And I assume your thinking is that they will use the medical application to further restrict it so they have a monopoly. But that would still leave them with a seriously limited consumer base of only those people willing to make the effort to get a recommendation from a doctor.
That's very limited thinking on your part. I say that once the bigs get involved, they will push to change it from recommendation required to an over the counter but still regulated substance the same as alcohol. That way their customer base is expanded to every adult, which will bring them far more profits. And they will still want the small grower around to be their market laboratory for new strains and other new products, just like micro breweries.
It's simple business sense. I don't know why you can't see it. You must be blind.
And you still haven't answered my question. What's the right system according to your view? What do you support? Do you have any solutions or are you still just throwing stones?
And OregonMeds's, hahaha, thanks for the compliment... I think.
But we're not going overboard, we're learning through discussion. I know I am anyway. It helps to sharpen my opinions to have them challenged. So I appreciate a good go-round. If it only helps to hone my opinions then great. But if I learn something that actually changes my mind about something then that's really special.
In this case I think I'm settling for the former, but I'll take it!
For personal use the point is that we need more rights and better protection from overzealous authorities. It is very worth it to put effort into that so we can better protect those rights if people do try to use your arguments to stop it. Only if we give up and lay down will we be begging for that to happen. So to take your advice and do nothing will promote the ends you predict. Good work designing and supporting your own little self-fulfilling prophesy. Would it make you feel good to fail as long as you could say you told us so?
For-profit grows are different, but not the way you claim. Whether you use the word medical or not, both alcohol and marijuana are 'controlled substances'. The difference is that no one ever claimed that alcohol had medical benefits (though it does). So marijuana has the edge there. But even though we need a recommendation for use now, it is conceivable and a short step from prescribed to over the counter sales.
And I assume your thinking is that they will use the medical application to further restrict it so they have a monopoly. But that would still leave them with a seriously limited consumer base of only those people willing to make the effort to get a recommendation from a doctor.
That's very limited thinking on your part. I say that once the bigs get involved, they will push to change it from recommendation required to an over the counter but still regulated substance the same as alcohol. That way their customer base is expanded to every adult, which will bring them far more profits. And they will still want the small grower around to be their market laboratory for new strains and other new products, just like micro breweries.
It's simple business sense. I don't know why you can't see it. You must be blind.
And you still haven't answered my question. What's the right system according to your view? What do you support? Do you have any solutions or are you still just throwing stones?
And OregonMeds's, hahaha, thanks for the compliment... I think.
But we're not going overboard, we're learning through discussion. I know I am anyway. It helps to sharpen my opinions to have them challenged. So I appreciate a good go-round. If it only helps to hone my opinions then great. But if I learn something that actually changes my mind about something then that's really special.
In this case I think I'm settling for the former, but I'll take it!