America - Diminished and Dismissed : Charlottesville violence

vostok

Well-Known Member
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Tuesday's combative press conference undid his carefully worded statement on Monday

Dispirited.

Back in 2004 and 2008 Americans were by and large united, or at the very least they were not so
angrily divided. One might think that the sight of swastikas on American streets would indeed
unite the country in unwavering purpose. Not so.

The country is so mired in political division that even Nazi symbols have become political symbols
some can live with if they feel that condemning them would give succor to their opposition.
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Trump returned to his New York home during his 17-day 'working vacation'

And the man running the country is actively widening that divide.

There's little point parsing the rationale of President Trump's defence yesterday of the
"fine people" who took part in the white supremacist march in Charlottesville.
I doubt he himself was even trying to make a reasoned case.

I suspect that rant of a press conference was driven more by his sense of personal grievance
- his anger at being attacked over his initial response to Charlottesville - than by his views on race.

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But Mr Trump's failure to unambiguously and repeatedly condemn those far-right,
racist groups gives them oxygen and strikes a blow at the heart of American identity.

American prides itself on being centrist, on not having the European tendency of flirting
with extremist groups. Respected veteran political commentators have often told me that
the US always gravitates to the centre ground. It sure didn't look like that in Charlottesville
- ask Germany, or Italy, Spain, even Russia.

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And if America is going to become just another country, albeit with a lot more weapons,
no wonder the world is revising its opinion.

Dismissive.

The degree to which Americans talk about themselves as a special, unique country has often struck
me as a little grandiose. You don't hear the French, or Brits, or Australians talk about themselves
that way - though they may well feel it.

But perhaps it takes the loss of that uniqueness to make us realise how real it was and
how much the world relied on it.

This summer I spent time in the UK, France and Spain. In all three countries, leaders are trying to figure
out how to get by without American leadership on critical issues like climate change and trade,
while the general publics increasingly see the US as a non entity.
It's not even seen as a joke, people are saddened by America's diminished global status.

Europeans have long had a complicated and somewhat insecure relationship with the US,
part admiration, part jealousy, part irritation. But this year the reaction in Europe to America felt different.

Continental Europe is feeling more confident, the economy is doing better and far right groups
have been defeated at the ballot box. Even Britain's decision to withdraw from the EU
doesn't get much attention - Brexit is old news in France and Germany.

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Will Trump's fans mind his comments if he works with Congress to enact legislation they favour?

That newfound confidence, mixed with America's clear dysfunction, does indeed create
a sense of dismissiveness. For many Europeans, indeed many foreigners, Trump is a spectacle,
a reality show on steroids. But that's about the sum of Europe's interest in America right now.

Mr Trump's approval ratings are slipping fast. The overwhelming majority of Americans are
appalled by all that the hideous scenes in Charlottesville represent.

Nothing is getting done in Congress. No wonder Americans are feeling disheartened.
No wonder the world is figuring out how to get things done without their global superpower.

(http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40954179)
 
Yea, I'm not sold on the Vostok brand anymore. I think it sold out to major Russian troll Corp. paying rubles for pro-trump posts.

He's a tough one to figure. He resents the USA. I can understand that. Sometimes I hate this place too, but he seems to be mostly rooting for turmoil and he doesn't seem to realize that Russia is a gangster state now and no matter how fucked up the USA is (plenty), Russia is far more fucked.
 
He's a tough one to figure. He resents the USA. I can understand that. Sometimes I hate this place too, but he seems to be mostly rooting for turmoil and he doesn't seem to realize that Russia is a gangster state now and no matter how fucked up the USA is (plenty), Russia is far more fucked.
I'm more interested in his views on whats up with Russian State TV and what they are saying about president pee pee.
 
America was by and large united in 2004 and 2008!!?? What? Really??

How soon people forget...

Back in 01-ish when Bush said "Youre either with us or against us," he essentially put the first blow down on a wedge that has been splitting the US apart ever since.

That was the start of tribal politics. Ever since left and right have been at each others throats more and more.

Amd now it looks like Trump could be the blow on that wedge that breaks the US in two...
 
He's a tough one to figure. He resents the USA. I can understand that. Sometimes I hate this place too, but he seems to be mostly rooting for turmoil and he doesn't seem to realize that Russia is a gangster state now and no matter how fucked up the USA is (plenty), Russia is far more fucked.
That seems to be pretty common on both sides, probably much of it is just left over from the competition between the cold war. Add to that the perceived defeat in the same by the former Soviet Union and it probably became a bit more pronounced on the Russian side. I think that the perception that Russia ceased to even provide a major threat to the US just inflamed the Long standing Russian loathing of being considered as an "inferior state" which goes back to before we were even a country.

Russian foreign policy is pretty direct and does not change nearly as often as our, or any democracy's does - they seek to redress this "inferior state" concept and surround themselves with friendly states for primarily security reasons. So when their empire collapsed and we started to inject democracy into the breakaway countries, it was seen as a provocation to them - which is understandable given their foreign policy goals. I believe this really got under Putin's skin, especially considering the fact that he has his image as a strong leader who will redeem the lost empire to protect. as long as his people continue to see him as that, they will mostly turn a blind eye to the rampant corruption he is allowing and taking part in.

We are all products of our upbringing. Russians tend to be proud and defensive and Americans tend to be somewhat high handed about our moral and military superiority.

Thusly, discrediting democracy became a major Putin goal. I think he has done well at accomplishing it - probably too well. His success in accomplishing his goal has led to a dramatic turndown in relations between us except at the highest (and orangest) levels.

I don't blame Vostok for being who he is - I have always enjoyed the natural rivalry that exists between us in my encounters with Russia.
 
if you haven't seen the VICE report on hbo check it out.
I recorded Hannity last night as he promised visual proof to his mentally enfeebled listeners as to the extreme provocation of the "fascist left". I started to watch it but threw up in the second minute. Maybe I can record Vice and switch back and forth between the two in order not to become further dehydrated.
 
That seems to be pretty common on both sides, probably much of it is just left over from the competition between the cold war. Add to that the perceived defeat in the same by the former Soviet Union and it probably became a bit more pronounced on the Russian side. I think that the perception that Russia ceased to even provide a major threat to the US just inflamed the Long standing Russian loathing of being considered as an "inferior state" which goes back to before we were even a country.

Russian foreign policy is pretty direct and does not change nearly as often as our, or any democracy's does - they seek to redress this "inferior state" concept and surround themselves with friendly states for primarily security reasons. So when their empire collapsed and we started to inject democracy into the breakaway countries, it was seen as a provocation to them - which is understandable given their foreign policy goals. I believe this really got under Putin's skin, especially considering the fact that he has his image as a strong leader who will redeem the lost empire to protect. as long as his people continue to see him as that, they will mostly turn a blind eye to the rampant corruption he is allowing and taking part in.

We are all products of our upbringing. Russians tend to be proud and defensive and Americans tend to be somewhat high handed about our moral and military superiority.

Thusly, discrediting democracy became a major Putin goal. I think he has done well at accomplishing it - probably too well. His success in accomplishing his goal has led to a dramatic turndown in relations between us except at the highest (and orangest) levels.

I don't blame Vostok for being who he is - I have always enjoyed the natural rivalry that exists between us in my encounters with Russia.

Thoughtful and insightful reply!

I miss Gorby. He was cuddly and warm. Putin is as cuddly as a pile of razorblades and cold AF. Also, he flexes his man boobs for the camera which makes him a douchebag automatically.
 
Thoughtful and insightful reply!

I miss Gorby. He was cuddly and warm. Putin is as cuddly as a pile of razorblades and cold AF. Also, he flexes his man boobs for the camera which makes him a douchebag automatically.
Yeltsin was a goofball. When we hosted him in DC he got very drunk and insisted on venturing out in the street in his underwear in search of pizza in the middle of the night. It was not widely reported here but probably was in Russia. It did not help quell the Russian feeling that we were laughing at them.
 
I recorded Hannity last night as he promised visual proof to his mentally enfeebled listeners as to the extreme provocation of the "fascist left". I started to watch it but threw up in the second minute. Maybe I can record Vice and switch back and forth between the two in order not to become further dehydrated.
Fox channel should have a disclaimer warning people about the sudden feeling of nausea and stupidity they may feel when viewing
 
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Yeltsin was a goofball. When we hosted him in DC he got very drunk and insisted on venturing out in the street in his underwear in search of pizza in the middle of the night. It was not widely reported here but probably was in Russia. It did not help quell the Russian feeling that we were laughing at them.

No shit? I hadn't heard that before. I'm sure the CIA got some hookers into his room for a clandestine photo op, maybe? Could there be Yeltsin pee tapes (or something similar)? Sounds like he was our useful idiot as Trump is their useful idiot today (and a much bigger idiot).
 
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