Russia & China align

Rob Roy said:

I hate to keep pointing it out, but no, I am not an idiot. That bell curve thing again.

I did not apologize to the wanna be tyrant store clerk. Haven't seen that particular woman for a while. Maybe she moved on to Walmart greeter or prison guard.

Actually many people want to live like me, but due to the debt traps they're in, they find it difficult. Government caused debt traps in many cases.
I don't even care much about money, but I do like apples.

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lulz. You say you are not an idiot. How would an idiot know they are stupid? Speaking of you, a narcissist, what narcissist believes they are stupid? Never mind, rhetorical question. I know you for an idiot from what you say.

Now then. Selling apples and working for yourself, high or not. The economy you describe is not 20th century, not 19th century and not even representative of the late 18th century. We have to go back to the early 18th century or 17th century to get back to the time when agriculture and trade were the mainstay of world class economies.

The kind of economy you describe is pre-railroad. Rail and industrial manufacturing of goods such as textiles revolutionized the economies of the world. Countries based upon pre-industrial economies failed. The last major economy to modernize was Imperial Russia. They stuck with an agricultural economy for far too long. The US old south was another that didn't modernize quickly enough. The north beat them with one hand behind its back when it became necessary. The north was an industrial economy. So, 19th century was the last gasp of the kind of agricultural life you demand we all go back to. Fuck that.

A modern semiconductor fab costs between 3 and 20 billion dollars, depending on line width it lays down on its chips. The kinds of products I help develop can take 5 or more years and hundreds of millions of dollars to develop, test and scale up for mass production. It's necessary to make these investments in order to stay competitive. As I said, competition in the marketplace is another form of war. If a country or company gets too far behind in investing in technologies or has inefficient markets, they go under. Even when appropriate investments are made, investing billions doesn't guarantee success. Sometimes an asshole like me figures out a better way and everybody else loses their investment. The great economies of the world have nothing in common with your "utopia" which actually sounds more like some medieval hell than anything else.

So, you are foolish, Rob. The kind of bullshit you talk about would fail. Assuming anybody listened to you.

Herb & Suds said:

Hate to whine
But this thread is getting hard to follow as I have the resident ape on ignore
Thanks for your consideration

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Thanks for the reminder that good people don't read Rob's BS. (except for laughs). I'll put him back on ignore now.

China & Russia both have made their own long-term problems. Putin raided & put Russian pensions on the line to invade Crimea & he has growing discontent while China will be dragged into wars they aren't anticipating due to developing interests around the world & they also see growing discontent at home. Unfortunately war fertilizes nationalism that drowns the discontent.

I think I need to visit my Volcano.

Fogdog said:

Thanks for the reminder that good people don't read Rob's BS. (except for laughs). I'll put him back on ignore now.

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Ditto & I only have two on Ignore.

Fogdog said:

lulz. You say you are not an idiot. How would an idiot know they are stupid? Speaking of you, a narcissist, what narcissist believes they are stupid? Never mind, rhetorical question. I know you for an idiot from what you say.

Now then. Selling apples and working for yourself, high or not. The economy you describe is not 20th century, not 19th century and not even representative of the late 18th century. We have to go back to the early 18th century or 17th century to get back to the time when agriculture and trade were the mainstay of world class economies.

The kind of economy you describe is pre-railroad. Rail and industrial manufacturing of goods such as textiles revolutionized the economies of the world. Countries based upon pre-industrial economies failed. The last major economy to modernize was Imperial Russia. They stuck with an agricultural economy for far too long. The US old south was another that didn't modernize quickly enough. The north beat them with one hand behind its back when it became necessary. The north was an industrial economy. So, 19th century was the last gasp of the kind of agricultural life you demand we all go back to. Fuck that.

A modern semiconductor fab costs between 3 and 20 billion dollars, depending on line width it lays down on its chips. The kinds of products I help develop can take 5 or more years and hundreds of millions of dollars to develop, test and scale up for mass production. It's necessary to make these investments in order to stay competitive. As I said, competition in the marketplace is another form of war. If a country or company gets too far behind in investing in technologies or has inefficient markets, they go under. Even when appropriate investments are made, investing billions doesn't guarantee success. Sometimes an asshole like me figures out a better way and everybody else loses their investment. The great economies of the world have nothing in common with your "utopia" which actually sounds more like some medieval hell than anything else.

So, you are foolish, Rob. The kind of bullshit you talk about would fail. Assuming anybody listened to you.

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That's quite a book report you spewed there.

The alignment between Russia and China brought the pain with it. There has been a discussion among investors whether or not Chinese kleptocracy has made it a bad place for foreign investment. The discussion began when the CCP broke the treaty that kept Hong Kong free to govern itself for another 20 years. Recent moves to simply take businesses away from their owners, particularly in the tech sector caused alarm among international investors. Most noticeable were actions taken last year, Jack Ma's business (Alibaba, TenCent, etc.) holdings were stripped away and he was personally threatened.

So, now, with it's actions to support Russia's war in Ukraine, businesses are pulling out their money. China is considered uninvestable. Foreign investors are taking what they can and leaving. Also, the writing is on the wall. If they go continue very far down the road of China sending military aid to Russia, US sanctions are going to hurt the Chinese economy very much.

Relentless Selling in China Stocks Evokes Memories of 2008 Crash

• Alibaba, JD.com’s ADRs tumble again in premarket trading
• JPMorgan calls some Chinese internet names “uninvestable”

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

The Hang Seng Tech Index saw an intraday swing of 10 percentage points on Tuesday, the wildest ever since the gauge was launched in 2020, Bloomberg-compiled data show. The China tech gauge lost 8.1%, extending declines from a February 2021 peak to nearly 70%.

Would it be news to anybody that PRC (People's Republic of China) has little regard for fair trading practices? A report to Congress last year spells out with little window dressing the threat they pose to the US tech sector.

In a nutshell, PRC requires tech companies to give intellectual property rights to them before they can do business there. This is a direct violation of a trade treaty they made with the US in 2020.

Report to Congress on China’s New Semiconductor Policies

April 22, 2021 9:50 AM


In late March 2021, China’s planning agency, the National Development and Reform Commission, issued further guidance on the new policies; the guidance clarifies that the Chinese government will require the relevant patents and IP mandated under its measures to be owned by a legally distinct and independent business in China, and cannot be simultaneously owned or controlled outside of China.9 According to these policies, patents and related IP submitted to the Chinese government for review will require government authorization, which creates an opening for the Chinese government to determine and require the specific know-how that companies must transfer to China to meet the policy requirements.

Another article explaining why investment in Chinese companies is no longer tenable for foreign investors. The PRC gives window dressing to their actions by claiming their predatory actions on private companies are due to "violations". But enforcement of their "laws" are capricious. Companies favored by Chinese oligarchs are protected while others who are operating independently get the hammer. Not to mention, Xi's insane actions against kids playing video games and censorship of entertainment media such as banning actors who don't meet their standard for masculinity. PRC's government is killing its own economy. They will blame the US. Just wait, they will.

Chinese Stocks Hit By Triple Whammy Of Regulations, Covid, Ukraine War

Regulatory fears heightened as the plunge in Tencent stock came as China's top leaders and policymakers wrapped up two annual conferences last week in Beijing. The National People's Congress and Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. They're China's largest annual political gatherings.

Multiple delegates at the two-day event suggested the government tighten its control over video games to keep minors away from such content. The comments signaled that there is little political appetite for pushing to ease restrictions on the industry. Tencent and NetEase are the two largest video game companies in China.


Tencent is facing a potential record fine for violations of some central bank regulations by its WeChat Pay mobile network, according to a report from the Wall Street Journal. Financial regulators recently discovered that WeChat Pay had flouted China's anti-money-laundering rules.

Covid fears also rattled Chinese stocks due to a resurgence in reports of Covid-19 infections. The news about infections came from the Chinese National Health Commission.

Shenzhen authorities announced they will suspend public transport from March 14 to March 20. Residents have been told to avoid "all unnecessary activities." They're asked not to leave the city unless necessary as it conducts mass testing. In addition, Apple (AAPL) supplier Foxconn is halting operations at its Shenzhen sites, one of which produces iPhones, in response to a government-imposed lockdown.

In Shanghai authorities have been sealing off schools, residential compounds and office blocks.

The broad rout in Chinese stocks follows a report citing U.S. officials that Russia has asked China for military assistance in its war on Ukraine. Traders worry that China's help for Russia could bring a global backlash against Chinese firms, even sanctions

This is all eerily reminiscent to what Putin did when he took over in Russia. There is more than just an alignment going on between China and Russia, they are making a concerted effort to create an alliance of kleptocracies.

Jun 24, 2021,11:57pm EDT|235,992 views
What Really Happened To Jack Ma?

What Really Happened To Jack Ma?

We know more about the location and condition of Putin’s prisoner Alexei Navalny than we do about Jack Ma. Ma's business empire has been under assault by the Chinese authorities, and is being "rectified" (broken up). But what about Jack Ma himself?

www.forbes.com

Last Fall Jack Ma was rich, and famous, and we knew all about him, followed his every move. He was in fact the richest man in China, and the most famous living Chinese person (according to polls). He was poised to crown his career with a triumphant public offering for his company, The Ant Group, the largest Fintech company in the world. The markets loved him. His high-tech business empire – which included Alibaba, the “Amazon of China” – was valued at well over $1 Trillion. He was an entrepreneur, an innovator, and charismatic spokesman for Success in the New China. But in Ma’s charisma there was a dimension beyond. His showmanship skills were extraordinary. Alibaba’s stadium-sized company celebrations were choreographed into extravaganzas the equal of any Super Bowl halftime show, and Ma himself was always the star…


Ma last took the public stage on October 24 of last year, in Shanghai. He gave a speech – The Speech, as it will be known – in which he was bluntly critical of the Chinese financial industry establishment. Days later, the authorities responded. They killed the Ant IPO, and summoned Ma to Beijing for “regulatory interviews.” And the curtain came down.

Jack Ma hasn’t been seen since – if by “seen” we mean being actually observed, and verifiably photographed, in public, and at liberty. Instead, through a credulous press, we have been treated to a series of bizarre “sightings.”

We know what has happened to Ma’s business empire (see my previous column for a summary).

It is being “rectified” (as Beijing puts it): dismantled, reassembled, and parceled out to government-run competitors. There is value destruction on a huge scale. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been subtracted from the public market value of Alibaba alone.

What we don’t know is just what has happened to the man himself. None of the sightings described above shed any real light on his fate, beyond establishing the fact that he is probably still alive.

Jimdamick said:

China no longer or soon will no longer need the US economy or it's demand for products to still make money.
It's a big world out there with many underdeveloped markets to expand into and the Chinese are doing that right now such as Afghanistan where they are in discussions with the Taliban over mineral rights.
The US ain't the only game in town anymore & that better sink in soon to our Capitalist rulers or the Commies are going to destroy them.
How ironic

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I disagree with you on that.

China isn't doing very well right now.
They want to try and recover the jobs they lost and it isn't a given that they will.
It wouldn't be smart for China to make trade and finance worse between them and USA.

Russia offers very little. Russia wants to hook up with their Credit/Debit card system after being dumped by all of the USA ones.