America Is a Failed State

Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
I don't get the point of this thread at all. It's not that "America" has failed, but that capitalism has failed. Eventually, all over the world, the situation we're in will happen. It's not a matter of if which is the question, but when.

When all you see is a person as a commodity, that allows you to gain more commodities to sell for a certain amount of profit, you have a failed state.

You can put a band aid on the ouchie but all that accomplishes is covering up the wound and not solving a thing.
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By definition, if you are opposed to initiating violence, all states are a failure.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
This world is not ready for anarchy. It would only mean violence. Tell me that you are not so naïve to believe otherwise
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I see the bus from "Opposite Land" just pulled in.

Do I really have to dismantle ANOTHER of your inane accusations ?

Okay, so let's start. How is a government NOT violent if it claims dominion over other peoples bodies and property with or WITHOUT their permission ?



 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I see the bus from "Opposite Land" just pulled in.

Do I really have to dismantle ANOTHER of your inane accusations ?

Okay, so let's start. How is a government NOT violent if it claims dominion over other peoples bodies and property with or WITHOUT their permission ?



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allow me to correct and add one word
This world is not ready for anarchy. It would only mean more violence. Tell me that you are not so naïve to believe otherwise.
Do you think without government there would be no violence ?
 
Buddha2525

Buddha2525

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
allow me to correct and add one word
This world is not ready for anarchy. It would only mean more violence. Tell me that you are not so naïve to believe otherwise.
Do you think without government there would be no violence ?
Click to expand...
You don't need to go full anarchy to reap the benefits of a less violent society. But, forcing more violence isn't the way to make less violence. By definition, more violence is more.

I see no problem with trying out how little government we need.

There are two types of liberty. You call for positive liberty, but who are you to say take away negative liberty?

Negative liberty must be defended by all means, and only when oppression is discovered, to you step in to help someone achieve their positive liberty. It's not a fair thing to step up and support only positive liberty like you do, and reject a person's right to negative liberty based on people are too stupid to know what they want. By doing so, you're arguing against the very thing you argue.
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
The ones calling for anarchy are ready for it, thinking they can survive in peace and live off the land, the ones hoping that never happens are ready for it with guns and will eat anyone who doesn't have guns.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
You don't need to go full anarchy to reap the benefits of a less violent society. But, forcing more violence isn't the way to make less violence. By definition, more violence is more.

I see no problem with trying out how little government we need.

There are two types of liberty. You call for positive liberty, but who are you to say take away negative liberty?

Negative liberty must be defended by all means, and only when oppression is discovered, to you step in to help someone achieve their positive liberty. It's not a fair thing to step up and support only positive liberty like you do, and reject a person's right to negative liberty based on people are too stupid to know what they want. By doing so, you're arguing against the very thing you argue.
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Holy fuck you’re annoying
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
allow me to correct and add one word
This world is not ready for anarchy. It would only mean more violence. Tell me that you are not so naïve to believe otherwise.
Do you think without government there would be no violence ?
Click to expand...

I think you should be open to logic, rather than superstition, but I understand the mental chains you carry are very heavy.

 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You mean the Beer hall putsch? 10 Nazis and four police officers died in that. 1926 or thereabout.

That actually WAS an act of treason. Hitler was sent to jail but it wasn't the kind he sent people off to. They treated him really well. Gave him a secretary, rooms with a view, visitors and ended his term well before his sentence term was completed. He wrote the first draft of Mein Kamfp in which he writes about his plans to do exactly what he did later on.

Holy crap, tty. You are defending real Nazis. After 1934 or '35, Hitler had total control of Germany. He murdered thousands of people many of them Nazi leaders that helped him into office. There was no serious internal threat to Hitler or Nazi party after that.
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Again, you're exactly backwards; I'm saying that attacking Nazis with violence did not work. Your story proves my point. I'm trying to solve the problem of social splinter groups espousing extremism; what you advocate will only legitimise them as victims. Keep in mind their sympathetic treatment by police, who are also full of skinhead supremacist Nazis.

Your amateurish attempt to smear me by strawmanning my motives is as disgusting as it is transparent.

Maybe if you worked at being less reactionary and paid more attention to the real experiences of people.

Are you getting dementia? You used to think a lot more than you do now. Buckwit's influence has ruined your critical thinking skills.
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Yep. You've provided a good representation of what's wrong in America today. People on the left are actually defending Hitler and his Nazis. Who would have thunk it?
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I put up a thread about the failure of American politics and the resultant collapse of society and you call me a Nazi?

WTF is wrong with you? You're a card carrying member of the Intolerant Liberal ballwashers club here- far more authoritarian and disapproving of dissent than me.
 
Herb & Suds

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Again, you're exactly backwards; I'm saying that attacking Nazis with violence did not work. Your story proves my point. I'm trying to solve the problem of social splinter groups exposing extremism; what you avocation will only legitimise them as victims. Keep in mind their sympathetic treatment by police, who are also full of skinhead supremacist Nazis.

Your amateurish attempts to smear me by strawmanning my motives is as disgusting as it is transparent.

Maybe if you worked at being less reactionary and paid more attention to the real experiences of people.

Are you getting dementia? You used to think a lot more than you do now. Buckwit's influence has ruined your critical thinking skills.
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Buckwit? Who is Buckwit ? Skippy?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
SageFromZen said:
Religion, politics and the decline of western civilization as we know it are usually best discussed over a 5th. That way nobody remembers anything in the morning.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about again?!
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Time to sober up. Things are moving far more quickly now with the Orange clown and his crew of Goldman Sachs corporate fascists in charge.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Buddha2525 said:
I don't get the point of this thread at all. It's not that "America" has failed, but that capitalism has failed. Eventually, all over the world, the situation we're in will happen. It's not a matter of if which is the question, but when.

When all you see is a person as a commodity, that allows you to gain more commodities to sell for a certain amount of profit, you have a failed state.

You can put a band aid on the ouchie but all that accomplishes is covering up the wound and not solving a thing.
Click to expand...
Read the article. There is a lot more that's failing than just capitalism, although that's definitely a major component. Between that, the obvious and ongoing destruction of our democracy and voting systems and the nationalistic fervor being stoked across the country, I see the potential for a very different America than the one I was taught about in high school history class.

Contrary to Smogdog's batshit crazy ravings about my supposed support for it, I'm calling attention to the rise of Nazism and other racist, supremacist and nationalist groups as clear signs of what's going wrong in our society at all levels.

It IS the 1930s all over again. There WAS a Nazi fascist movement in America. The capitalists of the time, including Henry Ford and Nelson Rockefeller were indeed plotting a takeover of the United States and placing it under a regime of corporate authoritarianism. The plan fell apart when they attempted to recruit Matinee Corps General and multiple CMOH recipient Smedley Butler (he wrote War Is a Racket, still a timely analysis of the links between capitalism and corporate driven imperialism) as their leader and he refused.

This time around, they aren't trying to recruit the military; they've already co-opted it. They aren't plotting to overthrow the government; they've bought it.

Useful idiots like Smogdog and Buckwit here play into the hands of the extremists with their rabidly divisive rhetoric and territorial tactics.

A reading of this thread as it's evolved confirms my points.
 
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