Anarchists?

magicSpoons

Member
I can't help wondering where our RIU Progressives have run off to now that a true Communist Anarchist is among us. All too often we Classical Liberals get labeled as Anarchists by the more ignorant Modern Liberals, or Progressives, if you will.

Hey magicSpoons. Welcome BTW.

Alternative viewpoints add spice to the sauce.

Question: How do you stand on the theory that anarchy is in reality a temporary state? A means to an end as it were.
Hi there.

It can be hard to talk about labels, like anarchy and anarchist communism, because people end up taking the labels for face-value and think you are talking about something else - usually something they don't like. The negative connotations of the word 'communism' are obvious, which is a shame.

I kind of understand what you are talking about and have heard it before. The society we wish to achieve is libertarian communism, a label that is sometimes interchangeable with anarchist communism. However not all those who wish to achieve libertarian communism are anarcho-communists, some are council communists or anarcho-syndicalists. Mostly the difference is in the method of achieving a libertarian communist society.

I think anarchy would rather be the result in the strictest definiton as it means 'without rulers'.

The temporary state leading up to the revolution, is sometimes called the culture of resistance, where the working class begin to realise their powwer and potential for creating revolution, organising into groups and taking part in the class struggle.
 

magicSpoons

Member
If you want to be a Voluntaryist you have my permission. :eyesmoke: Umm wait a minute, there's no permission required.
Just click your heels together 3 times and say there's no place like home and bingo you're a Voluntaryist!
What you were saying before about having similar beliefs, is maybe true to a very limited extent but voluntaryism doesn't really seem to challenge anything. That and I know nothing about it.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Sure ...

In your system of no government and unfettered cooperation, you are not allowing for human nature and ego.

Humans naturally seek success and the comfort it brings. Humans are naturally competitive and have a survival instinct.

What you espouse would necessitate the death of ego. This would be possible in a strict spiritual sense where everyone is in The State of Grace, but for normal "in the world" humans, we need government to protect the rights of the citizens from those who would violate those rights.

Vi
Who will protect people from government when those rights are abused by government?

Is it not theoretically possible that if a person harms nobody they should be exempt from being forced to be a subject under which ever government(s) exists in their locale?

For instance could I permit you and your friends to have your selected government, while I do not harm you could I be exempt from being forced into your system? What harm would it do? If Capitalism works under competition couldn't a society exist where people had choices to be governed or not as long as they harmed nobody? Must governments exist as the sole option for EVERYBODY? That doesn't sound like freedom does it?
 

magicSpoons

Member
Who will protect people from government when those rights are abused by government?

Is it not theoretically possible that if a person harms nobody they should be exempt from being forced to be a subject under which ever government(s) exists in their locale?

For instance could I permit you and your friends to have your selected government, while I do not harm you could I be exempt from being forced into your system? What harm would it do? If Capitalism works under competition couldn't a society exist where people had choices to be governed or not as long as they harmed nobody? Must governments exist as the sole option for EVERYBODY? That doesn't sound like freedom does it?
That idea has a name, it's called Panarchism and has a lot to do with particapatory econmoics and shizzle. Don't think it'd work.
 

Airwave

Well-Known Member
It's not a fairytale, it's real-life.
It is a fairytale. And cultish in the way you try to brainwash people into believing that communism is going to bring some kind of social utopia.

It's resisting against the terrible conditions imposed on us by bosses and the government.
Under communism everybody, besides the political party in power, will live under terrible conditions.

It's about working in the community to preserve the small pieces of freedom that we do have in this world and expand them.
There is no freedom under communism. Never has been, never will be.
Communism has massacred more than 100 million people. As soon as a communist party gets into power, the first thing it does is massacre anybody that disagrees with it. (see Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and plenty of communist backed militias)

It's about being pro-working class in order to remove class from society forever.
No, it's about your attempted manipulation of the working-classes. You want us to be your militia. You're hoping that we will be the ones that walk around shooting women and children because they are against the communist state.

If you can't relate to that, then you can't be working class, that and you are afraid to resist and would rather submit to the powers that be than to challenge them. Or you just don't understand what I'm saying.
I am working-class, I do resist the powers that be, and I do understand what you're saying.

I see communists as being the second lowest form of life on this planet. The very lowest being child molesters. So congratulations! you're one step up from a kiddie fiddler.

I am not susceptible to your brainwashing.
I am not susceptible to your attempts at manipulation.

Fuck you.
 

ViRedd

New Member
MagicSpoons ...

I have a lady-friend who lived under communist rule in Romania for the first 22 years of her life. I wish you could have a conversation with her. Very eye-opening, indeed. Not that you are supporting such a system, as you have clearly stated that you are for a libertarian form of communism. But therein lies the rub. They ALWAYS make the promise that their economic form supports the little people ... before they enslave them.

Vi
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
That idea has a name, it's called Panarchism and has a lot to do with particapatory econmoics and shizzle. Don't think it'd work.
So if there is an Anarcho / Communist society does it leave no room for people NOT to participate in it?

That seems to be the problem a lot of isms have, they don't permit people to opt out...sort of like slavery if you have no choice but to belong eh?
 

magicSpoons

Member
So if there is an Anarcho / Communist society does it leave no room for people NOT to participate in it?

That seems to be the problem a lot of isms have, they don't permit people to opt out...sort of like slavery if you have no choice but to belong eh?
I know what you mean, but to answer your first question:
No, you don't have to participate in anarchist communism in the sense that there is nothing that you are obliged to take part in in the first place. There will probably be organisations at work and in the community but you are not obliged to take part in them or be affected by them in anyway. If you were forced to, that's not anarchist communism. I hope that makes sense.
 

magicSpoons

Member
It is a fairytale. And cultish in the way you try to brainwash people into believing that communism is going to bring some kind of social utopia.



Under communism everybody, besides the political party in power, will live under terrible conditions.



There is no freedom under communism. Never has been, never will be.
Communism has massacred more than 100 million people. As soon as a communist party gets into power, the first thing it does is massacre anybody that disagrees with it. (see Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pol Pot, and plenty of communist backed militias)



No, it's about your attempted manipulation of the working-classes. You want us to be your militia. You're hoping that we will be the ones that walk around shooting women and children because they are against the communist state.



I am working-class, I do resist the powers that be, and I do understand what you're saying.

I see communists as being the second lowest form of life on this planet. The very lowest being child molesters. So congratulations! you're one step up from a kiddie fiddler.

I am not susceptible to your brainwashing.
I am not susceptible to your attempts at manipulation.

Fuck you.
Sorry but you have misunderstood me. I don't believe in state communism and I would mostly agree with you about the terrible conditions it can bring around and the atrocities of former communist state. But I'm an anarchist. I am not manipulating anyone, I'm giving my ideas, ideas shared by people call anarchist communists, and trying to make people understand them, and if they don't agree, well life goes on. I'm not forcing anyone to do or believe in anything.
 

magicSpoons

Member
MagicSpoons ...

I have a lady-friend who lived under communist rule in Romania for the first 22 years of her life. I wish you could have a conversation with her. Very eye-opening, indeed. Not that you are supporting such a system, as you have clearly stated that you are for a libertarian form of communism. But therein lies the rub. They ALWAYS make the promise that their economic form supports the little people ... before they enslave them.

Vi
Yeh that is the problem. But you didn't have to tell everyone about my plans :mrgreen:
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
I'm not side-stepping anything, it's just truth. Even if 'natural instinct' really did predetermine so much of our behaviour as you claim, we have the ability to think rationally and unlike animals we are not slaves to our genetics and nature. This happens everytime you use a condom.

And people never relied on leaders, the leaders have always either forced or tricked people into thinking they need leaders, but really the leaders were relying on them, be it for labour, economic gain, vanity. The 'leaders' did this not because they were predisposed by their genetics to dominate, they did it because they thought. And they thought, "Hey, if uses some lies and cunning to trick these people into thinking they need me as a leader, I'm set." Leadership and hierarchy are not 'natural' constructs, they are products of rational thought, products that still exist today at the expense of liberty and equality.

And you give several historical examples of leadership, but that proves nothing, just because it happened in societies past does not make it true, slavery was taken for granted in a large chunk of human history as normal, should we continue that?. And there is always time for change.

Genes may have affects on personality but not in the way you are thinking. You claim these genes for 14 traits of leadership, as though there is single gene for each, like there is a single gene that codes for a leg or an arm, an eye, which is nonsense. And just because somebody has a larger proportion of these traits, does that mean we should hold our wrists in the air and tell them to do with us as they see fit? I see no reason why we should, we are thinking creatures capable of independent thought, why should we be told what to do. Maybe you would prefer to have a hook through your nose and be pulled on a rope, but I know I wouldn't, and I'm sure most of the world's population having been presented with the facts wouldn't either.

And when did I say survival of the fittest doesn't exist? I said that social Darwinists had only taken the concept and narrowed it down to some ridiculous notion of man being pitched against man as the natural order of things. In actual fact one human is more likely to preserve him/herself in nature if s/he unites with other humans. This is the concept of solidarity - that we all share the same problems and together we can struggle against them as one. Capitalism refuses this concept because it is revolutionary and would bring on its demise, so it pumps out whatever propaganda it can to preserve itself - hierarchy, man against man, 'natural instincts', social Darwinism. And it can do this through science, religion, media, the government, because it owns them all.
What an interesting question?

Why should we continue slavery which was the system that you are pushing? You are demanding that individuals be stripped of their labor against their will through coercion, force, and fraud for the sake of others. You're nothing more than another slaver, another one of those "leaders" that you hold in so little regard, and no wonder, I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I were you.

Here you are attacking a system of voluntary cooperation (capitalism) and trying to replace it with a system of forced cooperation and slavery. You're rhetoric reeks of ignorance and hypocrisy, as you are accusing people of being liars, but reveal yourself to be just like them.

Socialism, the ideology of fools, cowards, and slavers. An ideology that can be described as the worship of death and dehumanization, because of the way it strips men of their humanity and reduces them to the status of dogs depriving them of the 2/5ths of the Human spirit that defines manhood.
 

magicSpoons

Member
What an interesting question?

Why should we continue slavery which was the system that you are pushing? You are demanding that individuals be stripped of their labor against their will through coercion, force, and fraud for the sake of others. You're nothing more than another slaver, another one of those "leaders" that you hold in so little regard, and no wonder, I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I were you.

Here you are attacking a system of voluntary cooperation (capitalism) and trying to replace it with a system of forced cooperation and slavery. You're rhetoric reeks of ignorance and hypocrisy, as you are accusing people of being liars, but reveal yourself to be just like them.

Socialism, the ideology of fools, cowards, and slavers. An ideology that can be described as the worship of death and dehumanization, because of the way it strips men of their humanity and reduces them to the status of dogs depriving them of the 2/5ths of the Human spirit that defines manhood.
People will not be stripped of the fruits of their labour, as it will be entirely up to them if they want to work to give their product to the community or to keep it for themselves, it will be up to them if they want to work in a group or alone. There's nothing wrong about that as long as they don't try to gain some economic domination over others. And unlike in capitalism, workers will not be alienated from their products because they can keep it for themselves or watch the benefits it brings to the community.

Capitalism can hardly be called a system of volunatry co-operation. I think I've brushed on this point before, but do you really think the masses of foreign labour in countries with smaller economies work in sweatshops for a pittance, barely enough to live on, because they really enjoy their work, or because they want to survive?
The same prinicple goes for billions of wage slaves around the world. The majority of workers don't work because they enjoy it, they work because they have to survive, and given the choice to continue working in a crap job or live the rest of their life comfortably without having to work for a wage - I know the majority of the world's population would choose the former. The small minority of people who do enjoy their work and have a job they do enjoy did not get to that point just by 'working hard', they had a massive does of luck as well. Are you telling me that a child in the slums of India who dreams of being an astronaut has a chance? Of course not. And it is not because the child is somehow 'unworthy' of becoming one, it's because of the economic and social inequalities created by capitalism.

Socialism is the concept of united humanity in its struggle for survival, not by fighting amongst each other, but by voluntarily co-operating with one another to make real progress. All else is barbarism.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
People will not be stripped of the fruits of their labour, as it will be entirely up to them if they want to work to give their product to the community or to keep it for themselves, it will be up to them if they want to work in a group or alone. There's nothing wrong about that as long as they don't try to gain some economic domination over others. And unlike in capitalism, workers will not be alienated from their products because they can keep it for themselves or watch the benefits it brings to the community.

Capitalism can hardly be called a system of volunatry co-operation. I think I've brushed on this point before, but do you really think the masses of foreign labour in countries with smaller economies work in sweatshops for a pittance, barely enough to live on, because they really enjoy their work, or because they want to survive?
The same prinicple goes for billions of wage slaves around the world. The majority of workers don't work because they enjoy it, they work because they have to survive, and given the choice to continue working in a crap job or live the rest of their life comfortably without having to work for a wage - I know the majority of the world's population would choose the former. The small minority of people who do enjoy their work and have a job they do enjoy did not get to that point just by 'working hard', they had a massive does of luck as well. Are you telling me that a child in the slums of India who dreams of being an astronaut has a chance? Of course not. And it is not because the child is somehow 'unworthy' of becoming one, it's because of the economic and social inequalities created by capitalism.

Socialism is the concept of united humanity in its struggle for survival, not by fighting amongst each other, but by voluntarily co-operating with one another to make real progress. All else is barbarism.
Funny, how you bring up third world sweatshops, seeing as how everyone has to work (something that not even your flawed system would change) they still are there voluntarily, they could just as easily work anywhere else they want.

As far as your ignorance about Socialism being the concept of a united humanity, that's a joke. Socialism is an effort by thieves like you to screw over those that by thrift, savings and perseverance managed to accumulate wealth. It is not a system that rewards hard work, but one that punishes it.

Regardless of how "good" your ideology sounds, it fails in the real world, because it will either be implemented by a government full of corrupt bureaucrats that are the sycophantic pawns of entities like the banks in which case the public will see itself stolen from under the disguise of it being for their "benefit."

The theft of public moneys for private interests is not in the public's benefit. The idea that a man is his brother's keeper is ludicrous if you are not going to empower individuals from ensuring that other people do not act in a stupid, ignorant, retarded fashion. You can not bind a free man to others and still state that he is free. It doesn't work, if you bind him through rhetoric and force him to feel "obligated" to help others you have used fraudulent means to enslave him.

And regardless of your beliefs capitalism is a voluntary system, clearly those people that work in sweatshops have a choice in their employment, and they made a choice to work in the sweatshops instead of any other form of labor, and then your automatically assuming that their pay is a pittance, but often what they are paid by a multinational beats what they would be paid by a domestic company, and does not appear to be a pittance to them, because the purchasing power of their pay is much greater.

Hollow rhetoric, ignorance, and gross stupidity, those are the coins of socialism and those that follow it. I have yet to hear any justification for the system of slavery that you are proposing, because it is still, make no mistake about this, a SYSTEM OF SLAVERY.

You are refusing to grant individuals the choice to make their own destiny, and arguing for a return to cottage industry. While such a thing would guarantee more employment, it would also end up causing more harm than good, because of the vast amount of competition that would result. Instead of hourly pay, people would be reduced to getting paid by the piece, which once again favors those natural leaders and entrepreneurs that are capable of using their intelligence and capacity for planning to find better ways of producing goods.

And if you are truly hell-bent on preventing the formation of corporations, then it is clear you are going to have a tyrannical government or a tyrannical bureaucracy to enforce your absurd laws that violate the freedom of association between people. Once again we are back to your system relying upon FORCE, FRAUD and COERCION, and thus revealing itself to be nothing more than a SYSTEM OF SLAVERY.
 

medicineman

New Member
Funny, how you bring up third world sweatshops, seeing as how everyone has to work (something that not even your flawed system would change) they still are there voluntarily, they could just as easily work anywhere else they want.
Funny how you actually believe this crap. What you really meant to say was they could work at sweatshop A-B-C-D etc. They have no chance at a decent job. Just as in this country, decent well paying jobs are handed out to a chosen few, brother-in-law type situations, and the rest work for survival shit wages. When your parents allow you a situation to go to a good school and solicit you a job from one of their cohorts, life is sweet. When you are suppressed by the capitalist warmongers as a virtual slave, it is shit job heaven for your sorry ass. The success stories of poor people are written in blood and are very short. This society favors the already wealthy and looks down on the less educated poor. This is a class centric society, don't act like it is not. BTW, Lenin himself said that people would not be ready for a true socialist society for at least 200 years. I doubt you have any real worries. Maybe (I Hope) a form of socialized medicine like the other 30 or so civilized nations already have, but as far as a real cooperative society, no worries, Capitalism has pitted us against eachother since 1st grade. It's not how can you help someone, but how you can beat someone. Competition has been touted as the do-all-Be-all of the society since basically The USA was formed. It's all about who is better, in their job, their lifestyle, their monetary worth, Etc. There are a few charitable institutions, but even most of them are some sort of a scam, the CEOs of the charities and the prime players, take the lions share of the money for self agrandisement. Real social interaction is a long way down the road my friend, you can quit worrying. Your money is safe from the masses.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Funny, how you bring up third world sweatshops, seeing as how everyone has to work (something that not even your flawed system would change) they still are there voluntarily, they could just as easily work anywhere else they want.
Funny how you actually believe this crap. What you really meant to say was they could work at sweatshop A-B-C-D etc. They have no chance at a decent job. Just as in this country, decent well paying jobs are handed out to a chosen few, brother-in-law type situations, and the rest work for survival shit wages. When your parents allow you a situation to go to a good school and solicit you a job from one of their cohorts, life is sweet. When you are suppressed by the capitalist warmongers as a virtual slave, it is shit job heaven for your sorry ass. The success stories of poor people are written in blood and are very short. This society favors the already wealthy and looks down on the less educated poor. This is a class centric society, don't act like it is not. BTW, Lenin himself said that people would not be ready for a true socialist society for at least 200 years. I doubt you have any real worries. Maybe (I Hope) a form of socialized medicine like the other 30 or so civilized nations already have, but as far as a real cooperative society, no worries, Capitalism has pitted us against eachother since 1st grade. It's not how can you help someone, but how you can beat someone. Competition has been touted as the do-all-Be-all of the society since basically The USA was formed. It's all about who is better, in their job, their lifestyle, their monetary worth, Etc. There are a few charitable institutions, but even most of them are some sort of a scam, the CEOs of the charities and the prime players, take the lions share of the money for self agrandisement. Real social interaction is a long way down the road my friend, you can quit worrying. Your money is safe from the masses.
Have you actually spoken to a person in a third world nation, and asked them their opinion?

Nothing here is anything more than conjecture, though I would say that your side has considerable less proof when it comes to backing their opinions. Perhaps they have better work ethics than we do, and don't mind the long hours. Or maybe they believe it beats the alternatives, namely farming, and hunting with out a guarantee that they'll eat everyday, or even be able to get a decent price in the markets for what they grow or catch.

Of course, those on the left do not have a leg to stand on here either as it's their mandates for Corn Ethanol being used as a fuel that have done incredible amounts of damage to the poor of the entire world by jacking up food prices. I'm sure Archer Daniel's Midland enjoys having Daschle in their pocket.

Irony, Democrats tend to be Socialists/Fascists that support giant corporations, while Republicans are accused of it for supporting free enterprise.

No one is forced to work where they work involuntarily, they are free to try going into business for themselves at any time. It really wouldn't take all that capital to build a machine shop to manufacturer tools, furniture and other consumer goods for marketing, the problem is that such a company could not expand, because it could not compete with the third world and its low labor costs.

Which of course is yet another argument for replacing the means of government funding with excise taxes as was originally intended, withdrawing from GATT, the WTO, and ignoring the whining of the rest of the world while preserving jobs, and economic growth that our country needs.
 

ViRedd

New Member
I'm a sales trainer in a field (real estate sales) where the highly motivated can exceed 7 figures in income annually. Most fail miserably in my business. Many just coast along and make a decent living. All that's required is a high school diploma and a clean criminal record.

One of the things I teach in my classes is that money is nothing more than a scoreboard reflection of one's service. If one helps enough people get what THEY want first, then one will get what he/she wants in return. This has nothing to do with class, education, race, gender, looks or age.

The ability to make money in commissioned sales is determined by your dedication to your customer's needs, your work ethic, your willingness to be trained ... and of course your willingness to work your freakin' ass off. It helps to become obsessed with the business too.

Working every Saturday, Sunday and holidays is a must. I had three years in a row where I either took a nice listing, or made a sale on both Christmas Eve and New Years Eve.

Every time I hear, or read something like Med-'O-Mao just posted above, I shake my head in disbelief. I cannot believe that someone grew up in the United States and has come away in his old age with such a warped, negative attitude about the American working life.

If there are any young people reading the posts of Med-'O-Mao, just disregard him ... and believe that YOU can be as successful as you want to be. This has been proven over and over throughout our history.

And by the way ... working in a "sweat shop" in India is a hell of a lot better than having to resort to digging through the dumps in Calcutta trying to eke out a living. You can bet your ass that those people working in those "sweat shops" thank their God every day that they are able to put food on the table for their families.

Vi
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
What about national defense? What about international trade? Do we still have currency in your society? If so, what about the people that acquire "too much" money, rob them of it? If not, how do we engage in trade with other nations. The only way this could come even close to working is in a totally isolated, agrarian society...

Who decide who gets what house, isn't it unfair that someone will be living in michael jackson's mansion while others live in south central Los Angeles? Or would people be expected to share the mansion? WHo decides how many people can stay, and who stays? who decides who decides? There is so so many problems with your ideal society, the list goes on and on.
 

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
What about national defense? What about international trade? Do we still have currency in your society? If so, what about the people that acquire "too much" money, rob them of it? If not, how do we engage in trade with other nations. The only way this could come even close to working is in a totally isolated, agrarian society...

Who decide who gets what house, isn't it unfair that someone will be living in michael jackson's mansion while others live in south central Los Angeles? Or would people be expected to share the mansion? WHo decides how many people can stay, and who stays? who decides who decides? There is so so many problems with your ideal society, the list goes on and on.
You're taking socialist ideology to its extreme. No one said that America should develop a complete socialized model. Some people merely think that socializing distinct areas like health care and education would be beneficial. I agree that hard work does a lot in America, but some people are literally born into shit in this country. I think they deserve health care and education - these privileges (used intentionally) are afforded to each individual up to the age of 21. After that, they're on their own. Give EVERYONE a chance. If they don't take it, then at least it was offered.
 

magicSpoons

Member
Funny, how you bring up third world sweatshops, seeing as how everyone has to work (something that not even your flawed system would change) they still are there voluntarily, they could just as easily work anywhere else they want.

As far as your ignorance about Socialism being the concept of a united humanity, that's a joke. Socialism is an effort by thieves like you to screw over those that by thrift, savings and perseverance managed to accumulate wealth. It is not a system that rewards hard work, but one that punishes it.

Regardless of how "good" your ideology sounds, it fails in the real world, because it will either be implemented by a government full of corrupt bureaucrats that are the sycophantic pawns of entities like the banks in which case the public will see itself stolen from under the disguise of it being for their "benefit."

The theft of public moneys for private interests is not in the public's benefit. The idea that a man is his brother's keeper is ludicrous if you are not going to empower individuals from ensuring that other people do not act in a stupid, ignorant, retarded fashion. You can not bind a free man to others and still state that he is free. It doesn't work, if you bind him through rhetoric and force him to feel "obligated" to help others you have used fraudulent means to enslave him.

And regardless of your beliefs capitalism is a voluntary system, clearly those people that work in sweatshops have a choice in their employment, and they made a choice to work in the sweatshops instead of any other form of labor, and then your automatically assuming that their pay is a pittance, but often what they are paid by a multinational beats what they would be paid by a domestic company, and does not appear to be a pittance to them, because the purchasing power of their pay is much greater.

Hollow rhetoric, ignorance, and gross stupidity, those are the coins of socialism and those that follow it. I have yet to hear any justification for the system of slavery that you are proposing, because it is still, make no mistake about this, a SYSTEM OF SLAVERY.

You are refusing to grant individuals the choice to make their own destiny, and arguing for a return to cottage industry. While such a thing would guarantee more employment, it would also end up causing more harm than good, because of the vast amount of competition that would result. Instead of hourly pay, people would be reduced to getting paid by the piece, which once again favors those natural leaders and entrepreneurs that are capable of using their intelligence and capacity for planning to find better ways of producing goods.

And if you are truly hell-bent on preventing the formation of corporations, then it is clear you are going to have a tyrannical government or a tyrannical bureaucracy to enforce your absurd laws that violate the freedom of association between people. Once again we are back to your system relying upon FORCE, FRAUD and COERCION, and thus revealing itself to be nothing more than a SYSTEM OF SLAVERY.
From this post I can actually see you are deluded about the state of the world. If you actually read my posts, I think you'll find explanations for just about everything in this post, all the rest is your own stubborness in thinking capitalism is some romantic fantasy world of leaders and glory and battle and honour and all the other shit they put down your throat.

It actually astounds me that you can accuse me and my ilk, who desire only the best interests of all to be a fraud and ignorant. You talk about my supposed system of slavery but there's one right under your nose! You're either too brainwashed or scared to accept it.

You talk about violaion of freedom but clearly don't know what freedom is, understandable as you've never clearly experienced it, in mind or matter.

And "FORCE, FRAUD and COERCION" I think you will find are the pillars that keep capitalism standing.

Capitalism is not voluntary, like I have said before there are billions of people with shit dead-end jobs, who never will or have ever had any choice in the matter - not because they are dumb or slackers, but because the bosses and bankers and politicians really couldn't give a shit either way as long as they get richer and more powerful.
 

magicSpoons

Member
Funny, how you bring up third world sweatshops, seeing as how everyone has to work (something that not even your flawed system would change) they still are there voluntarily, they could just as easily work anywhere else they want.
Real social interaction is a long way down the road my friend, you can quit worrying. [/B]:hump:
That's the sad truth.
 
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