Another Republican President, Another Recession.

Dryxi

Well-Known Member
Bloomberg has some really good charts on this to get a better idea of where the states are with their vaccinated as a share of the racial statistics (updated Sept 12th).

Luckily it looks like in every state the disinformation campaign trying to hurt our minority populations are losing. It looks like in terms of the 'black' portion of the population in NY is one of the worst.

I would agree more with the not focusing on getting everyone possible (regardless of race) fully vaccinated and instead putting those resources to the minority communities if there was not enough vaccines to cover everyone. But I don't know if that is the problem, it is getting people to get the shot.

Luckily with social media companies waking up to their role in allowing our citizens to be attacked with the anti-vaccine propaganda hopefully gains can be made faster and we can finally get out of this mess that the Republicans have been trying to extend.

View attachment 4998695
For some reason Bloomberg has the share of Black NY vaccinated at 45%, while https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/vaccine-demographic-data has it at ~15% vaccinated.

- this one also has it at 47% vaccinated

(Haven't looked at why.)
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
For some reason Bloomberg has the share of Black NY vaccinated at 45%, while https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/vaccine-demographic-data has it at ~15% vaccinated.

- this one also has it at 47% vaccinated

(Haven't looked at why.)
Might be the difference between NY city and NY state?

I thought it was weird that they listed it as NYC too. I don't know much about New York to know why though.
 

Dryxi

Well-Known Member
Might be the difference between NY city and NY state?

I thought it was weird that they listed it as NYC too. I don't know much about New York to know why though.
Lol all comes back to how someone wants to frame numbers and they did it differently. My graphs would look considerably different if I used Bloomberg numbers, so now idk if those graphs I created are remotely accurate. The difference between 45% and 15% is rather large.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Lol all comes back to how someone wants to frame numbers and they did it differently. My graphs would look considerably different if I used Bloomberg numbers, so now idk if those graphs I created are remotely accurate. The difference between 45% and 15% is rather large.
Still it is worth looking at so I appreciate the conversation about this very real situation of the disparity in how our different sections of our population are being vaccinated. I was really glad to see the information on how it was changing (improving) over time, which I wouldn't have if you didn't bring it up.
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Ok dumb question about vax and race disparity.
The vaccine is freely available to everybody except our youngest at this time.

What is driving the unevenness in vaccination by race? It does not appear to be about access or cost, the usual suspects. And I have trouble believing that there are different susceptibilities by skin color to the disinformation. So what then?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Ok dumb question about vax and race disparity.
The vaccine is freely available to everybody except our youngest at this time.

What is driving the unevenness in vaccination by race? It does not appear to be about access or cost, the usual suspects. And I have trouble believing that there are different susceptibilities by skin color to the disinformation. So what then?
There is a long history of medical malfeasance that makes Black people in the US distrustful of the medical establishment. Fauci and other old white men don't resonate well with those communities either. Put those barriers in with the disinformation that is flooding us right now and it's not a surprise that fewer in Black people are willing to get vaccinated.

What I want to know is what is driving the low rate of vaccination among white people? They don't have the Tuskeegee experiment in their history.

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CatHedral

Well-Known Member
There is a long history of medical malfeasance that makes Black people in the US distrustful of the medical establishment. Fauci and other old white men don't resonate well with those communities either. Put those barriers in with the disinformation that is flooding us right now and it's not a surprise that fewer in Black people are willing to get vaccinated.

What I want to know is what is driving the low rate of vaccination among white people? They don't have the Tuskeegee experiment in their history.

View attachment 4998794
This is at variance with the shocking pie chart a few posts earlier.

I don’t know what to think.

my #1 hypothesis goes to quality of education. White districts did better on that case than nonwhite districts.

If you ask me, that sort of skew in what we teach our next generation massively confirms CRT, to the anger of the millions of cryptoracists. So much grief because people are not being counted as people.
 

Dryxi

Well-Known Member
There is a long history of medical malfeasance that makes Black people in the US distrustful of the medical establishment. Fauci and other old white men don't resonate well with those communities either. Put those barriers in with the disinformation that is flooding us right now and it's not a surprise that fewer in Black people are willing to get vaccinated.

What I want to know is what is driving the low rate of vaccination among white people? They don't have the Tuskeegee experiment in their history.

View attachment 4998794
Screenshot_20210930-141637_Chrome.jpg
Pretty sure the distrust isn't stuck with one group.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
This is at variance with the shocking pie chart a few posts earlier.

I don’t know what to think.

my #1 hypothesis goes to quality of education. White districts did better on that case than nonwhite districts.

If you ask me, that sort of skew in what we teach our next generation massively confirms CRT, to the anger of the millions of cryptoracists. So much grief because people are not being counted as people.

Per the CDC:

29% of all Black people in the US have been vaccinated by at least one shot
37% of all white people in the US have been vaccinated by at least one shot.


Those numbers aren't all that different from the histograms for New York and NYC that @hanimmal posted

I think the pie chart @Dryxi put up was inaccurate. Or from a different time. They are shocking, I agree. But it's not true. I don't know why Dryxi was trying to mislead. I don't know who meta charts is. He's posted misleading shit before, I don't know what his agenda is but having an honest discussion is not one of them. Which is why I have him on ignore. I think I'll go with CDC information.
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Per the CDC:

29% of all Black people in the US have been vaccinated by at least one shot
37% of all white people in the US have been vaccinated by at least one shot.


Those numbers aren't all that different from the histograms for New York and NYC that @hanimmal posted

I think the pie chart @Dryxi put up was inaccurate. Or from a different time. They are shocking, I agree. But it's not true. I don't know why Dryxi was trying to mislead. I don't know who meta charts is. He's posted misleading shit before, I don't know what his agenda is but having an honest discussion is not one of them. Which is why I have him on ignore. I think I'll go with CDC information.
Yes good. But even the CDC info displays a ( lesser but seemingly real) disparity. Perhaps my proposed mechanism covers it.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Ok dumb question about vax and race disparity.
The vaccine is freely available to everybody except our youngest at this time.

What is driving the unevenness in vaccination by race? It does not appear to be about access or cost, the usual suspects. And I have trouble believing that there are different susceptibilities by skin color to the disinformation. So what then?
IMO I think a lot comes down to not ever really having healthcare and just getting used to everything being a pain in the butt to do in the city vs the suburbs. Fewer parking spot, more traffic, more people waiting in lines, etc. It is like pouring more sand through a smaller hole.

For example I have about 14 CVS pharmacies in a few minute drive from my suburban home in a small-medium sized city. Detroit has 22, but that is covering a far larger area and population.

But it is all a issue, education is a real problem due to underfunding schools and hounding our minority children with police which increases the amount that end up in Juvie (which is just a funnel to prison in a lot of cases).

And you would be surprised about the propaganda going at the minority communities. It is obscene. Especially in Spanish language as it is easier for it to go under the radar. And again is harder for people to understand what they are getting sold is snake oil if they have had less education to understand and have more folks around them that understand what is real and what is propaganda.
 

Dryxi

Well-Known Member
Per the CDC:

29% of all Black people in the US have been vaccinated by at least one shot
37% of all white people in the US have been vaccinated by at least one shot.


Those numbers aren't all that different from the histograms for New York and NYC that @hanimmal posted

I think the pie chart @Dryxi put up was inaccurate. Or from a different time. They are shocking, I agree. But it's not true. I don't know why Dryxi was trying to mislead. I don't know who meta charts is. He's posted misleading shit before, I don't know what his agenda is but having an honest discussion is not one of them. Which is why I have him on ignore. I think I'll go with CDC information.

From the state. No intentional misleading, but you are right. As @hanimmal and I were talking about, they weren't accurate. The state has those numbers listed as 14% vaccinated, but it's 14% of the total population that is black and vaccinated of the 17% total population that is black in NY.

Rather sad you have me on ignore. :(
 
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CatHedral

Well-Known Member
And you would be surprised about the propaganda going at the minority communities. It is obscene. Especially in Spanish language as it is easier for it to go under the radar.
I live in a place that is less than half white. Even here I don’t see that propaganda. That probably skews what I see far from what it is.
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
I have always wondered why people correlate good governance to keeping it zipped.

Bushlet kept it zipped and lord knows he did not out-President Mr. Clinton.
When we talk about a person, the various aspects are tallied to create an overall perception. Otherwise, we have to talk about a specific aspect, in order to convey an opinion on a specific aspect. But, with Clinton, his personal predatorial behaviors overflowed onto his work, with a coworker, so in his specific case, the correlation is appropriate.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Yes good. But even the CDC info displays a ( lesser but seemingly real) disparity. Perhaps my proposed mechanism covers it.
It's a fair hypothesis. I haven't seen a good recent work up comparing education level to vaccination rates but earlier surveys showed higher level of education tracked with a willingness to get vaccinated.

If you listen to what Black people say about why there is a discrepancy, they talk about the awful history that the Black community has had with the US medical system as a factor.


It's possible that both factors are important.
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
When we talk about a person, the various aspects are tallied to create an overall perception. Otherwise, we have to talk about a specific aspect, in order to convey an opinion on a specific aspect. But, with Clinton, his personal predatorial behaviors overflowed onto his work, with a coworker, so in his specific case, the correlation is appropriate.
And yet his predatorial behaviors were so much fewer than his eventual successor’s.

I do not think that “sexual content” (which massively offends the Calvinist subculture) makes any difference.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I live in a place that is less than half white. Even here I don’t see that propaganda. That probably skews what I see far from what it is.
When you have rich racist white guys spamming the coin to spread the propaganda, and no real money behind combatting it, those holes are devastating.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/spanish-language-misinformation-latinos.html
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MIAMI — The posts proliferated on election night before anything remotely definitive was known about the results of the presidential race. “Robado,” they falsely repeated again and again in Spanish: President Trump was being robbed of a victory. He had won Arizona. George Soros was funding violent “antifa riots.”

The baseless social media messages to Latinos trying to delegitimize the election and the results for Joseph R. Biden Jr.circulated online on Tuesday night and into Wednesday, part of a disinformation campaign to undermine Latino confidence in the vote as it unfolded.

Ahead of Election Day, false news in Spanish tried to turn Latinos against Black Lives Matter and tie Mr. Biden to socialism, tactics that experts said could depress the Hispanic vote. Now that voting is complete, the rampant falsehoods have only garnered larger audiences — including among immigrants less familiar with the institutions of American democracy. The gist of the falsehoods is that the election is “rigged” against Mr. Trump.

“These misinformation narratives are helping plunge the country further into chaos and confusion,” said Fadi Quran, a director at Avaaz, a nonprofit that tracks disinformation. He called the disinformation campaigns a “democratic emergency.” “The most vulnerable communities in the country are paying the highest price,” he said.

For weeks, officials and election security experts braced for what was widely expected to be an election marred by hacking and misinformation. They zeroed in on familiar adversaries in Russia, which weeks earlier had been caught hiring people in Mexico and Venezuela to push out Instagram and Facebook content.

The officials and researchers worried about interference from Iran after Iranians posing as members of the far-right Proud Boys group threatened Democrats not to vote. The Justice Department on Wednesday announced a takedown of dozens of Iranian propaganda sites targeting Americans. And Microsoft and United States Cyber Command separately took aim at Russian cybercriminals’ hacking infrastructure in an effort to stave off the kinds of ransomware attacks that could freeze up election systems.

But on Tuesday, they breathed a sigh of relief as Election Day passed relatively unscathed. It was, one administration official said, just another Tuesday on the internet.

Yet 24 hours later, it appeared Facebook and Twitter might have overlooked the deluge of disinformation targeting Spanish-speaking Americans. Spanish-language accounts with huge followings falsely said that Mr. Trump had secured an early victory, that social media was censoring his win and that Mr. Biden was cheating.

Twitter accounts with large followings pushed a debunked conspiracy theory, adopted by some prominent American conservatives, that election workers in Maricopa County, Ariz., had given Trump voters pens that could not be detected by ballot scanners. Others claimed that armed protesters funded by the billionaire Mr. Soros were taking over the U.S. Capitol.

By Wednesday, disinformation experts like Mr. Quran likened the flood of Spanish-language disinformation to an emergency and called on social media platforms to retroactively inform anyone who engaged with the content that the claims were false.

The reach of the disinformation is vast. In just 24 hours, Spanish-language disinformation was generating traffic that eclipsed even the interference campaign by the Kremlin-backed Russian Internet Research Agency four years ago.

On Facebook, a video posted to a seven-month-old Colombian account called Mr. Capacho en Vivo, with 40,000 followers, accused Twitter of censoring Mr. Trump’s victory and had already been viewed more than 500,000 times — far more traffic than Russian trolls generated with fake Black Lives Matter ads ahead of the 2016 election.

Marketed as a global finance and political news page, the Colombian account pushed QAnon conspiracies, such as the baseless belief that leading Democrats are part of a global cabal of Satanist child molesters. On Monday, the same account posted an edited, misleading video of Mr. Biden touching children, falsely claiming that he was a “superpredator.” By Wednesday, the video had been watched about 45,000 times.

Another Spanish-language influencer, Ciro Gómez Leyva, who has more than two million YouTube subscribers, posted a video late Tuesday in which he claimed that 150 members of antifa were descending on Washington with “gas masks, arms and shields.” While protesters did march outside the White House, there was no evidence that weapons were involved.

Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 3.36.10 PM.png
Supporters of Mr. Trump gathered in the Little Havana neighborhood of Miami on Tuesday. It is difficult, if not impossible, to know how much false claims influenced Latino voters ahead of Election Day.Credit...Scott McIntyre for The New York Times

On the Spanish-language YouTube channel Campechaneando, a host warned viewers not to believe news that Mr. Biden had overtaken Mr. Trump in the Electoral College count. Some 160,000 people had watched the video by Wednesday.

On another Spanish-language channel, Informativo G24, with more than 500,000 subscribers, hosts compared Democrats to Nazis on Tuesday. The video was seen some 350,000 times.

In Miami, a Spanish-language radio show, “Cada Tarde con Carinés Moncada y Agustín Acosta,” pushed debunked claims late Tuesday that Republican poll watchers had been barred from observing voting locations in Pennsylvania.

In September, one of the show’s co-hosts, Carinés A. Moncada, had pushed a conspiracy theory that a co-founder of Black Lives Matter was involved in devil worship.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to know how much false claims influenced Latino voters ahead of Election Day. But the hub of much of that misinformation was South Florida, home to a diverse community of Latinos, many of whom fled left-wing authoritarian regimes and are receptive to messaging about socialism.

When the results from Miami-Dade County came in on Tuesday, Mr. Trump outperformed expectations. Robust support from Hispanic voters helped him win Florida easily and allowed Republicans to flip two congressional seats in the state.

Juan Pablo Salas, a Colombian political analyst in Sarasota, Fla., said he worried that the misinformation involving Bogotá, Miami and Washington could be a coordinated effort between right-wing interests in Colombia and the U.S., “to essentially turn our Colombian-American community into the tip of the spear of the offense played by the extreme right.”

“They’ve invested a lot of money in turning South Florida into a campaign bastion,” Mr. Salas said of the Republican Party and the party of former President Álvaro Uribe of Colombia, who is close with many Miami Republicans.

On Tuesday night, Eduardo A. Gamarra, a professor of political science at Florida International University, agreed to analyze the election on NTN24, a television news network based in Colombia. He found himself on the air debating Omar Bula Escobar, a former United Nations representative notorious for, among other false claims, saying that Mr. Soros controls the Democratic Party, an anti-Semitic trope embraced by QAnon.

Dr. Gamarra said he rejected Mr. Bula Escobar’s baseless claims of election fraud and then telephoned the network after the interview had concluded.

“I said: ‘Don’t you ever do that to me again. Do background research on your guests,’” he said. “This is irresponsible.”

A producer for the show did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Wednesday.

Evelyn Pérez-Verdía, a Democratic Latino issues strategist in South Florida, said she spent four hours on Tuesday trying to debunk false claims on Spanish-language radio that Mr. Biden, a moderate, was a left-wing radical.

“The Republicans called him a socialist, in those four hours, 20 times,” she said. “And a radical five times, and a Castro-Chavista” — a reference to Fidel Castro of Cuba and Hugo Chávez of Venezuela — “three times. Repeat a lie and repeat it until it becomes the truth.”
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
It's a fair hypothesis. I haven't seen a good recent work up comparing education level to vaccination rates but earlier surveys showed higher level of education tracked with a willingness to get vaccinated.

If you listen to what Black people say about why there is a discrepancy, they talk about the awful history that the Black community has had with the US medical system as a factor.


It's possible that both factors are important.
I am a white male (privileged class) and have no counterargument. What a way to discredit something universally good. Damn.
 
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