Another try at Germination

I just ruined some expensive seeds because I didn't know what I was doing. I'm going to practice on some old bag seeds of god only knows how old. I figure if I can germ and grow these, I can grow fresh seeds even easier. I figured out I was never going to be successful unless I got them past the seed stage, so I had to rethink what I did and adjust to what makes sense for me.

Where I live is near a large body of water. Humidity is usually over 50%. The temps at this time of year range from 70-85F. These are pretty much ideal growing conditions without me needing to do anything.

What happened last time, is that I really jacked up the water. I had them entirely too wet, too long, I made so many other mistakes that only one survived more than two weeks. The only reason it survive is because I didn't do anything to it.

So, I'm going to take these Reg seeds and try an experiment. Here is what I did and didn't do.

1. I didn't pre-soak my seeds
2. I didn't put them in paper towels
3. I won't put them under a humidity dome
4. I didn't place the pointy side up/down
5. I didn't place them in total darkness
6. I didn't t put them under a heat pad
7. I won't spray my seedlings with water


What I learned from last time:
1. In nature Cannabis seeds rot if they fall into a puddle of water.
2. Transplanting a germinated seed is impossible without some damage to the taproot.
3. Excess humidity combined with a lack of oxygen is the #1 cause for poor germ rates.
4. I will place them horizontal as how they might fall.
5. I will geminate under 24 hrs of light so that when the seeds break ground, they do not stretch.
6. Ideal temps and humidity for germination are close to 75-78°F with humidity at or below 50%.
7. Cannabis isn't a swamp plant. Over-watering and/or high humidity trigger diseases.

What I did this time:

Wore gloves, used tweezers, sterilized everything, avoided touching everything that wasnt neceeary.

I made up 1 gallon of water that had been sitting in a 5 gallon bucket full of bubbles for a day or two as to help remove the chlorine.

My tap runs under 200 PPM so to 1 gallon of water I added:


2ml Liquid Karma, 2 ml Cal Mag, adjusted PH to something that looks like Urine yellow and that gave me a PPM of 293.



I soaked my Rapid rooters in this water well, removed them and shook them out. I did not squeeze.

I picked 20 beans. Dropped them in with tweezers, pulled off a little of the RR to fill back in the hole.

I planted per rapid rooters direction by placing 1/4" of this soaking LK Calmag water in the bottom of the tray.

I put in the tray insert inside the seedling tray, and placed them in my closet 3" under 3 x 35w 4000k fluorescent. They will run for 24/0.




I hope within 3-5 days the seedlings appear out of the cubes but who knows.

Good luck

I started 12 seeds not long ago and I have 12 plants.

I took a wine glass with some water in it and threw the seeds in it until the taproot was visible and then transplanted into soil (you can plant the seed in any grow medium though).

I've pre germinated every seed i've grown in water before putting them into my soil, has always worked great for me i think i'm honestly at a 100% rate, but I always start with healthy looking seeds.

What you did OP should work this time, if it doesnt i'd suggest pre germinating in a glass of water

With our passion, sometimes we forget.


KISS

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

Good luck my man

Earlyriser76 said:

The only reason it survive is because I didn't do anything to it.

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That is the most important lesson for any cannabis grower at any stage.

Earlyriser76 said:

1. In nature Cannabis seeds rot if they fall into a puddle of water.
2. Transplanting a germinated seed is impossible without some damage to the taproot.
3. Excess humidity combined with a lack of oxygen is the #1 cause for poor germ rates.

Click to expand...

1. Yet I germinate all my seeds submerged in water
2. Depends on what you transplant from and to, I do it a lot (from rockwool/jiffy to soil for example, or to netcup with hydrotron) and rarely damage a taproot so apparently it's possible.
3. Yet I germinate all my seeds submerged in water

The main problem is temps. Cold and wet is far worse than wet alone. Pre-soak the seeds in "warm" water (30-40C). I put them in a small thermos can I place directly under the light to keep it warm.

The next day they all popped open or sunk, then I place them in small cubes/jiffies close under the light (3x18w T so they dry over 24 hours or so and I can soak them as much as I want to.

Earlyriser76 said:

1. In nature Cannabis seeds rot if they fall into a puddle of water.
2. Transplanting a germinated seed is impossible without some damage to the taproot.
3. Excess humidity combined with a lack of oxygen is the #1 cause for poor germ rates.
4. I will place them horizontal as how they might fall.
5. I will geminate under 24 hrs of light so that when the seeds break ground, they do not stretch.
6. Ideal temps and humidity for germination are close to 75-78°F with humidity at or below 50%.
7. Cannabis isn't a swamp plant. Over-watering and/or high humidity trigger diseases.

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^ This is more or less correct. Temperatures even in the 80's are fine for germination.

One more suggestion for you, though. Don't start seeds in rapid rooters. Those are really good for clones, and germinating some other plants but they aren't the best for Cannabis seeds and here is why: when a Cannabis seed sprouts it's tap root wants to protrude up to 3 or 4 inches. Ideally, you would use a container that is at least 4" tall.

You can start directly into a good seed starting mix. You don't need the supplements and you don't need to pH anything.

Fresh seeds don't need to be soaked in water. Old seeds may benefit from soaking for short periods of time because the embryo may have dried out some. Otherwise, warmth benefits germination more than any soaking. Once you put a seed into pre-moistened media and water, guess what? It's essentially surrounded by moisture, anyways.

Nullis said:

^ This is more or less correct. Temperatures even in the 80's are fine for germination.

One more suggestion for you, though. Don't start seeds in rapid rooters. Those are really good for clones, and germinating some other plants but they aren't the best for Cannabis seeds and here is why: when a Cannabis seed sprouts it's tap root wants to protrude up to 3 or 4 inches. Ideally, you would use a container that is at least 4" tall.

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Hi Nullis and thanks for the response. I read several of your threads and that's where I got a lot of my information.

I had a terrible time with dampening off last time. (7 out of 8 died or were stunted) I read that the RR's have been pre-treated to help fight this. I fight heat and high humidity constantly.

I also read where RR worked for hydro and soil. I'm thinking 6 plants will go into my top feed DWC and the rest in promix hp or hempy buckets. I needed a starter medium that would do different final methods. My last disaster was rock wool because I didn't know how to use it. Not that I know how to use any of it but I thought I would try something different. I guess we'll see what happens.

You definitely can germinate seeds in rooters, they will (should) sprout, but you'll find that shortly after they do the taproot has already made its way through the bottom of the plug. So, you would want to transplant them as soon as you can into their homes (if you were doing soil/soil-less).

Rockwool is a difficult medium because it has no CEC (no buffer capacity), and thus requires pH monitoring. If you haven't had much success you might want to try a soil-less container grow.

Nullis said:

If you haven't had much success you might want to try a soil-less container grow.

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Ok, thanks again. If RR's are not the best, what else might I have used to germ my seeds?

This is a bit off topic but which of the soil-less grows do you find offers the fewest challenges with the fastest growth?

I made a slight change to my germ tray setup this morning. I raised my light from 3" to 6" because I could feel some heat from the lamp at 3". I learned last time, to treat these seedlings very gently or they won't make it. I also read that lower germination temps produce more females. I was also concerned the heat might dry out the tops of the rooters a bit too much. Part of that may be true.

Apparently, the rooters sucked up that 1/4" of water in the bottom of the tray overnight. If that was due to the heat at 3" evaporating the water, or the rooters themselves I don't know but it looks like I'll have to watch that water level throughout the germ phase. No big deal, just reporting my findings.

One of the ideas I liked about RR trays were their inclusion of a wicking system. The rooters don't sit in the water, but the water level is up "to" the bottom of the rooter when you add 1/4" of water. That keeps the rooter moist but not water logged and takes the human factor out of the equation.

Readings in my closet at 3:00 am were 82* / 74% RH. Where I live, it's generally warm and humid which is a breeding ground for all those diseases that can kill my plants.

Germination is an easy process once you learn how to do it. There's many different ways. I prefer rockwool but you have to watch your ph. when I first started I used the paper towel and cup of water method with high success rates.. one thing is if you fuck with your plants too much you'll fuck them up.... just give them good conditions and they will thrive... some people say a light solution is good for seeds some do not... I personally use just tap water with high success rates. For those pesky hard to germ seeds put a heating pad on low for first few days until they crack. With a drop of super thrive if needed. Humidity dome is good until they crack because you don't gotta check it as much.... anyway good luck to ya man! Get your hands on some good genetics again it will go a long way. I highly recommend reserva privada or dinafem They have nice vigorous plants ! By the way recently I stuck a og kush seed in rockwool over night then planted in promix the next day and had a sprout very fast so I'm digging this method too. there's many ways

bokedoki said:

Germination is an easy process once you learn how to do it. There's many different ways. I prefer rockwool but you have to watch your ph. when I first started I used the paper towel and cup of water method with high success rates.. one thing is if you fuck with your plants too much you'll fuck them up.... just give them good conditions and they will thrive... some people say a light solution is good for seeds some do not... I personally use just tap water with high success rates. For those pesky hard to germ seeds put a heating pad on low for first few days until they crack. With a drop of super thrive if needed. Humidity dome is good until they crack because you don't gotta check it as much.... anyway good luck to ya man! Get your hands on some good genetics again it will go a long way. I highly recommend reserva privada or dinafem They have nice vigorous plants !

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Thanks man. I would like to blame Rock wool for my disaster but it was me, not the rock wool. Yep, I'm seeing the less I fool with them, the better they grow. I have one plant that survived last time.

Here how complicated it got. I soaked the seed until it sank, placed in paper towel until it cracked. Put it in Promix-hp and gave it water and light. I'll be damned if the thing didn't grow and it's still growing.

My whole house is a humidity dome because of where I live. I live in the tropics, on a lake, 1 mile from the ocean and keep all my windows and doors open 24/7 and with the AC and heat off. Low humidity isn't a problem here.

What I found from my last attempt was that too much humidity isn't a good thing so I wouldn't recommend a dome on seedlings if your RH is over 60% anyway. My sense is that you don't need a heating pad either if your temps are close to 75* at the seed. I'm starting to believe what we need is determined by where we live and our growing conditions and one size doesn't fit all.

My last seeds were from Herbies. 100% germed and I screwed them all up except for one. I have read good things about Dinafem. Thanks for the suggestions.

No problem. That is very true as I live in a very dry cold climate... until spring my problem is my humidity is very low here but my plants still thrive... it's all almost the same but the temperature can be controlled with a dehumidifier I suppose for your specific conditions... I need a pad because here inside it's like 68 degrees. When I use a dome for seedlings I check it every 3 or 4 hrs so no stale air is sitting in there. You shouldn't need to do much it sounds like you live in good conditions. I recommend throwing a few outside aswell

[QUOTE="bokedoki, post: 11479019, member: 896386"You shouldn't need to do much it sounds like you live in good conditions. I recommend throwing a few outside aswell[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have the opposite problem and not sure which way will be my best method to grow. Mold /fungi/root rot and other nasty aliments may plague me once again so I'm investigating my options as I wait for my seeds to germ.

I'm ready to rock a 10 gallon / 6 site top feed DWC but with my temps and humidity already too high in my tent, that I'm concerned about reservoir temps (root rot) and growing mold on buds. All that bubbling water will do nothing but raise the humidity in my tent.

My other option is just good old Promix-hp with a wicking system used as a passive hydro. This is what "did" work last time. It's similar to a hempy bucket, drain to waste system.


The good thing about this is the wicking system does all the watering and I can still monitor the watering with a standard moisture meter.


This worked out pretty well with 3" of growth in two weeks. Here is where my one plant is today.

(I never thought I'd be proud of 3", but here ya' go)

We have lift off! They were planted dry on Sunday the 5th and Tuesday the 7th and I am seeing them start to break the surface. I see a tiny bit of white in the RR on 4 out of 20. Some are trying to break through.

When I think about it, it would take two days to crack in napkins and then I would plant them, then they would have grow enough to break the surface. With the RR's, it's germinating and breaking the surface at the same time.

That's actually about 48 hours on a dry seed. I wonder if I would have soaked it in water until they sank, then planted them, if they would have started even faster?

They have been at 80* / 65% since Sunday with 24 hour light. I would describe the RR's as wet not moist. The wicking system works quite well.

Earlyriser76 said:

Ok, thanks again. If RR's are not the best, what else might I have used to germ my seeds?

This is a bit off topic but which of the soil-less grows do you find offers the fewest challenges with the fastest growth?

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Rooters are fine for what you're doing actually, they just couldn't be left in them alone very long after sprouting. You could use 8 oz or larger red cups filled with Pro-Mix or coir for germinating and keep those in a tray which you periodically add water to when necessary.

I always start directly into soil (in red cups), which isn't actually soil but rather a soil-less mix with compost that gets treated like soil. It only requires plain water, seeds tend to sprout within 72 hours and in just a couple weeks there are generally several sets of true leaves. I've never had a problem with damping off doing this.

Nullis said:

Rooters are fine for what you're doing actually, they just couldn't be left in them alone very long after sprouting. You could use 8 oz or larger red cups filled with Pro-Mix or coir for germinating and keep those in a tray which you periodically add water to when necessary.

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That's a good idea. I wondered how long they could be in that tray. Why do you say I could not leave them in the tray that long?

It seems to me once they break through the rooter, that anytime you fool with them you shock them. People "say" leave them in the tray until you get a tap root, but I'm not convinced that's the best thing.

I'm not planning soil or even HP other than my rejects. I plan to grow 9 in perlite/verm hempy pots and try 6 in that DWC. If any more germ, of out that 20 I'll plant those in HP. I don't; expect 100% germ rates with bag seed but we'll see,

Maybe that's what I will do. Once they get a set of leaves and before the tap root shows up, pop them in the perlite and Hydrotron and grow my seedlings in their final destination. Let that tap root grow in the place it will stay?

How about this? Once the seedlings pop, put them in the net cups and grow them out in a seed tray like this?

Nah, I'm not doing that extra step. Once they leave the RR tray, they should go where they will stay. Where that is, I still don;t know.

I have a choice of Promix-hp, that 10 gallon dwc, 2 gallon smart pots, and something new I just ordered for 1 gallon Hempy buckets. I only have a 2'x3'x5' tent so not everything will fit.

That 10 gallon tote takes up a lot of room and valuable floor space. It will grow 6 plants at a time however and fast.

9 of these fit in a standard milk crate taking up about 1 sq foot. These are 1 gallon tree pots 14" deep x 4" square.

My idea is to seal the bottom and drill drain holes 2" up and make them into 1 gallon Perlite/verm hempy buckets. If this actually worked for doing 12/12 from seed or clone, then my tent could hold 2 milk crates and 18 plants at a time. I ordered 9 of these pots as a test run. Shipping cost was more than the pots.

4 more seed are breaking ground this morning so I'm nearing the 50% germ rate. Not sure if that's a good or bad percentage on bag seed but that's what I show. I didn't pay any particular attention to how deep I planted the seeds or what orientation so we will have to wait a few more days to see what made it out of Rooters and didn't.

I needed to add a little water to the tray this morning but the rooters still looked wet, saturated in fact.

12 out of 20 are doing something so far. They are all growing at different rates. Why? Some have long stems, some trying to break the ground. 8 have nothing going on at all from what i can tell.


I think there is something to the seed being orientated. Not sure if it should be pointy end up, or down but some of these seeds are trying to grow back down into themselves.


On the ones that did germ the Rrooters seem to have worked fine. Too good in fact. The tap root is coming out of the bottom of the rooter already There is as much or more root growth as stem growth on the ones that have stems.

This plant is under 1" but the tap root has grown 2.5" in basically 3 days. You can see its sticking out of the bottom already. ALL the others have roots too that have grown any stem at all.


I think the best way to use these Rapid Rooters are to plant them in the tray, water them, then once they break the top of the ground, get them in their final destination before that tap root breaks through the bottom of rooter.

All this in a little over 3 days and from dry bag seed is pretty good I would think. I think I need to get all that show sings of life planted ASAP.