hi im an ebb and flower. ive been growing this system for awhile using R/o water and base AN nutes along with grozyme . thats all i put in my solution , i keep my ppms during flower low . never exceeding 1100ppm . i just want some pointers if im missing anything that i should be adding . the current grow is almost done and im noticing less bud production , and i dont know why , maybe i overnuted and caused lockout i dunno . but anyhow any imput is welcome. thanks
any pointers/advice for me using R/O water
- Thread starter Wohjew
- Start date
HomeGrown420baby
Well-Known Member
whats grozyme?? hope it has calcium in it cuz if ur using RO water ur ganna be lacking calium..go get urself some calmag
HomeGrown420baby
Well-Known Member
nevermind dagobaker already told u
fatman7574
New Member
In general all the top line nutrient formulas designed for hydroponics are designed for use with RO water and generally have sufficient calcium and magnesium included in their basic complete formulations. In genearl if it is a two part formula the calcim and magnesium suppied is adequate.
This is not always the case and research should be done on the nutrients guranteed analysis.
There are more growers who cause nutrient problems by adding too much calcium and magnesium then there are people having problems from too little calcium or magnesium due to using RO water.
For what it is worth, many AN preparations are either low on calcium or contain none at all. According to the guarnteed analysis information in the fertilizer registry for the sate of California only their Sensi One and Sensi grow nutrients contain calcium. With AN who knows though as they are not very good at supplying analysis data on their products.
In general I recommend growers avoid AN products. There are just too many other manafcturers putting out products that gladly supply complete analysis and ingrediant information on all their horticultural products to have to deal with AN's secrecy and deception.
This is not always the case and research should be done on the nutrients guranteed analysis.
There are more growers who cause nutrient problems by adding too much calcium and magnesium then there are people having problems from too little calcium or magnesium due to using RO water.
For what it is worth, many AN preparations are either low on calcium or contain none at all. According to the guarnteed analysis information in the fertilizer registry for the sate of California only their Sensi One and Sensi grow nutrients contain calcium. With AN who knows though as they are not very good at supplying analysis data on their products.
In general I recommend growers avoid AN products. There are just too many other manafcturers putting out products that gladly supply complete analysis and ingrediant information on all their horticultural products to have to deal with AN's secrecy and deception.
well i use sensi grow/bloom A nd B, ive had great result without adding cal mag . should i continue with out ?
fatman7574
New Member
Sensi grow formulas are up in the 500 ppm range for calcium and bloom the 800 ppm range. Lucas mix is only about 200 ppm calcium so I would not worry about the calcium levels. The bloom is a bit lower in magnesium than I like at 100 ppm, I prefer 150 ppm. But adding just a small amount of magnesium sulfate (ephsom salt) is simple enough to do. It would only take 0.35 grams per gallon of water to kick the Magnesium up to 150 ppm.
The main reason for the large need for higher levels of calcium and magnesium during budding is the need for neutralizing H+ ions (acid) released by the roots and this is done by magnesium carbonates generally. Generally the growers who have signs of magnesium and calcium defiencies during budding are also the same people fighting daily declines in pH. Go figure. You can sfaely assume that if your using AN Sensi and you are not having a large daily decoine in ph, then yu are fine with your calcium and magnesium levels. If you are having a problem with your pH you are likely a little short on magnesium. Sensi has loads of calcium.
Typical signs of a magnesiun deficiency are that the lower leaves yellow, the stems turn red, the leave tips turn white, and necrosis (death) takes place.
This is very typically seen in grows where for some reason the grower with holds nutrients in the last few weeks of budding and say they are flushing the plant of excess nutrients. In reality they are just starving the plant of nutrients during the timewhen the plants most needs nutrients to fill out its sex glands. For plants that normally reproduce seed that is what it is all about. You probably do not see many professioanal sensi growers who with hold nutrients and acll it fluhing. definitely not any that produce buds with high THC levels.
The main reason for the large need for higher levels of calcium and magnesium during budding is the need for neutralizing H+ ions (acid) released by the roots and this is done by magnesium carbonates generally. Generally the growers who have signs of magnesium and calcium defiencies during budding are also the same people fighting daily declines in pH. Go figure. You can sfaely assume that if your using AN Sensi and you are not having a large daily decoine in ph, then yu are fine with your calcium and magnesium levels. If you are having a problem with your pH you are likely a little short on magnesium. Sensi has loads of calcium.
Typical signs of a magnesiun deficiency are that the lower leaves yellow, the stems turn red, the leave tips turn white, and necrosis (death) takes place.
This is very typically seen in grows where for some reason the grower with holds nutrients in the last few weeks of budding and say they are flushing the plant of excess nutrients. In reality they are just starving the plant of nutrients during the timewhen the plants most needs nutrients to fill out its sex glands. For plants that normally reproduce seed that is what it is all about. You probably do not see many professioanal sensi growers who with hold nutrients and acll it fluhing. definitely not any that produce buds with high THC levels.
wow that explains it very clear thanks fatman . when you refer to flush do u mean feed with plain water ? i dont do that but after week 6 of flower with an 8 week strain i start to reduce nutes and finish week 8 with say 500ppm solution .
fatman7574
New Member
Yes, flush is running plain water with out nutes, Some of those K Myth bound growers do at least pH balance the water used for flushing. Your method will produce better yields and higher THC levels. The taste experienced while smoking is chiefly controlled by the curing process rather than a dry and smoke process as used my most "Flushers." Feeding until harvest produces green buds, of highest yield and potency. Drying in a cool area of low humidity just until the plants are dry enough to be jarred or bagged for curing and a slow curing removes all chlorophyll or salt tastes.
I cure in containers where CO2 is injected into the containers until all ambient air is displaced by the heavy CO2 gas. I open the containers every two (first few periods) to three days until fully cured. My initial drying is done in a sealed closet like room that is also charged with CO2 to 1500 ppm and kept at that level. The room is at 60 degrees or cooler with a humidifier keeping the relative humidity at 35% to 50%. High yield, potent, green and great tasting.
All drying and curring and storage is in the dark.
HomeGrown420baby
Well-Known Member
certain nutrients are specially made for RO water..i think its hardwater or someshit like that and AN is not bad just expensive..the best line right now is AN sensi a and b..no doubt..i havnt used it yet but i will someday
HomeGrown420baby
Well-Known Member
u fatman u inject co2 into ur jars when u cure?? how do u do that? and does it seem like it makes a big difference? if so what? just curious cuz ill try it if i like what i hear
OB Cron Kenobi
Well-Known Member
I use sensi A and B and my pH levels usually climb up pretty quick. I love AN products- but they made a lot of hype about their pH buffering, and I've found it no different than any other. My understanding is its normal for pH to climb after a couple of days in the Rez. Its actually good because it means they are taking up nutrients. Correct?
But my AN products- have done me amazing. I wouldnt switch them out- but I am in the process of trying to find which ones give you the most bang for your buck. Some of them are blatantly repetitive. Not unlike other nute companies who have multiple sweeteners or beneficial...
But certainly AN sensi line is a keeper. I've had awesome results with it. I may go for the connoisseur though next time... anyone try it?
But my AN products- have done me amazing. I wouldnt switch them out- but I am in the process of trying to find which ones give you the most bang for your buck. Some of them are blatantly repetitive. Not unlike other nute companies who have multiple sweeteners or beneficial...
But certainly AN sensi line is a keeper. I've had awesome results with it. I may go for the connoisseur though next time... anyone try it?
fatman7574
New Member
I use Plastic containers with two holes and two rubber corks. One on the side nera the bottom, and one on the top oppisiste the bottom hole. Put CO2 in bottom hole slowly. It is a denser gas than O2. After a period of about 10 to 15 seconds plugtop hole then bottom. With jar a single hole in the top will work well. Some small growers use vauumn sealers. They remove most air/O2 and the curing buds usethe rest fairly quickly. The buds cure faster but are nowt quite as clean tasting. Plants are still live for a good length of time after harvest. They continues to break down stored "reserves" while curing. Using cool temps, and CO2 slow the drying processes and drying process more than the curing process. It is really not much different that the process used for storing fruits and vegetables by large wholesellers.
Basically look on it as stopping an unripe product from riping quickly. This slow riping which takes even longer due to the removal of most O2 is the curing process.
fatman7574
New Member
I really couldn't even guess at why the major Pot nutrient manafacturers do what they do. I have simply found at best that their products will work. I have never found AN or GH products to work best, nor with the least amount of problems or needed supplements and adjustments. They are simply average products.
The below listed formulation is what I am presently using for veg and flower. Plus trace nutrients not shown. It works very well on drain to waste systems and recirculated systems that are adjusted regularly and changed out regularly. I have rum full veg without change outs and full budding cycles without changes with minimal drops in yield. I used them for several years using pH analyzer/controllers and conductivity analyzer/controllers. They worked in my opinion a great deal better than the major manfacturers products normally touted in the forums. They are quite close to the Dyna-grow foliage pro. Many people just refer to it as the general 2:1:3 formulation. I do go heavier on the Magnesium as the Flora-grow is at 50 ppm and I find that I have to add a lot of pottasium hydroxide during the last two weeks of budding with the lower magnesium levels. Dyna-gro Flora has its calcium at 200 ppm. The trace element concentration levels I maintain are consistent throught out the grow. I have also tweeked the ratios so as to provide matching EC, TDS and pH between veg and budding formulations as I found it causes less lags in growth during switch over of nutrient formulas. Plus it allows not having to readjust the controllers or ph adjustment solutions etc.
I have a nutrients formulation program to do the iterations needed for the adjustments so it was basically a matter of just entering a few number inputs.
Would I recommend Flora Grow over GH or AN. I can say I have been mixing nutrients for over 25 years and as far as I have seen the formulations I have come up with over the years that I have performed the best for me so far are very near that of the Foliage Pro, not that of GH or AN.
Bloom
PPM
Nitrogen 242
Phosphorus 86
Potassium 378
Magnesium 98
Calcium 194
Sulfur 130
Ounces
Part A
Calcium Nitrate 68.0
Potassium Nitrate 24.7
Part B
Potassium Nitrate 24.7
MonoPotassium Phosphate 28.8
Magnesium Sulfate 70.0
Volume Of Stock Concentrated Solution (gallons) 5
Dilution Rate 100
pH 5.8
EC 2.7
TDS 1904
Veg
ppm
Nitrogen 264
Phosphorus 81
Potassium 288
Magnesium 92
Calcium 259
Sulfur 122
Ounces
Part A
Calcium Nitrate 17.1
Potassium Nitrate 3.2
Part B
Potassium Nitrate 3.2
MonoPotassium Phosphate 5.1
Magnesium Sulfate 12.4
Volume of Stock Solutions (gallons) 1
Dilution Rate 100
pH 5.8
EC 2.7
TDS 1904
squarepush3r
Well-Known Member
is this a homemade mix, or a brand ? Flora Grow is GH (General Hydroponics). Also, isn't the above formula missing micro nutrients and trace nutrients?
fatman7574
New Member
Yes I use trace nutrients but they are not shown." Yes I mix my own and yes it is my own formulation. There is nothing special about the trace element concentrations so I saved some typing. It is actually pretty close to just being like Dyna-Gro foliage pro with some added Calcium Nitrate and Potasium Nitrate.
True Stoner
Active Member
Use whatever works for you. I grow for the love of the plant and even though i grow monster buds i find my methods arent that maybe you think is the best. As long as your plants growing and budding you doing great!!
I use AN products and they work great for me!!
I use AN products and they work great for me!!
fatman7574
New Member
At the university where I teach the agriculture department researchers in conjunction with the environmental engineering department (me) are growing ornamental long stem roses in a NTF system where the nutrients are provided by raw waste water (toilet water). The plants love it. Kinda gives new meaning to a rose by any other name is still a rose. Mj is a very adaptable plant. Nearlty every the researchers use in the 40's through the early 60's to increase fiber content and decrease THC content, merely worked increased THC content, but typically decraesed yield meaning decreased fiber. So if you happen to know someone growing in soil that buys class A compost, remenber to tell them that calss A compost is the publicly salable compost made with sewage sludge and generally wood chips. The sellers are now required to say made with sewage sludge. Mixed organic materials or some such thing is acceptable. Thai is why some nutrient manfacturers are so up front about syaing composted chicken litter. If they just say compost it is Cass A compost (sewage based).
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