Anyone know if acupuncture works for nerve pain?
- Thread starter AlphaPhase
- Start date
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Your post amounts to nothing more than you saying "lol, nu huh!" You've offered no real evidence or cogent argumentation, you've simply made assertions.
You seem to not realize that most of the developed world has socialized healthcare. That means the government pays for it. These governments could dramatically reduce their healthcare costs if they were to expose hidden cures that were being suppressed. Is it likely that they’d be sitting idly by, losing money while pharma companies get rich? Wouldn’t any country like to reduce healthcare costs and instead spend the money on things like defense and energy development? No, we’d have to believe that, in a world where the “hidden cure” conspiracy can be uncovered by anyone with a laptop and WiFi connection, these countries had somehow missed it.
In the US, the healthcare bill is largely paid by the insurance companies. Why would big insurance companies continue paying for expensive yet inefficacious treatments when a cheap and effective cure is available? They’d have every incentive imaginable to uncover and expose the suppression of superior and cheap treatments. Why would they be motivated to keep quiet while forking over huge sums of money to something they know to be a fraud? Again, we’d have to believe that they had somehow missed it.
There are already examples of inexpensive products which are very effective at eradicating a particular disease despite the fact that letting people get sick and then treating them would yield more profit per patient. However, companies still create them, which would seem to contradict the claim that companies are so ruthless they’d rather people suffer so they can milk a little more money out of them than to market a cure. Why haven’t vaccines and antibiotics been suppressed? Is there not more money to be made from tuberculosis by treating the symptoms instead of administering the cure? Would no one stand to profit if measles were rampant in America instead of rare? Why would companies be so selective about which cures to hide and which to utilize? Again, this only makes sense if you use logic and reasoning not with the aim of finding truth, but with the aim of justifying the trope.
This is what I am talking about when I say the "Big pharma" trope requires no cognitive investment. It simply allows you to feel justified in your indignation. Of course, that doesn't mean pharma companies are shining examples of heathcare. When you see the world in black or white, you miss all the stuff in between.
Eat a balanced and nutritious diet, get plenty of rest and exercise and avoid stress. This is very typical mainstream advice. There is nothing alternative about it. In fact, doctors want everyone to follow this advice, no matter how old or young, how healthy or sick.
Again, there is nothing alternative about herbs. Herbs are drugs. Dirty, non-standardized, and in some cases untested, drugs, but drugs none the less. There is nothing about the fact that herbs can produce a pharmacological effect that demonstrates acupuncture working.
Why would you assume that I do not know people who went to medical school? You've literally just given us hearsay. Acupuncture works because your sister says big pharma controls the schools? If you think that sounds like solid reasoning then I guess we also have to believe Joe, who works for the government and says reptilians control everything. We have to listen to Jane whose bother works for NASA and says the Earth is flat. Or, do you just believe the people who say things you already agree with?
As I said, acupuncture studies are largely carried out by people who want them to succeed. Does Big Pharma also control the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine? If so, then it's strange that they would put so much money and effort into promoting alternative treatments. Does Big Pharma control the skeptic movement? If so, it's strange that they allow skeptic organizations to complain about things like over prescribing meds, over diagnosis, unnecessary testing, anti-depressants that do not work, failure to publish negative results, and the constant lobbying of doctors to use their brand of meds. Plenty of people and organizations who criticize big pharma and cry foul also cry foul at the promotion of acupuncture.
What you've described is a world-wide conspiracy to suppress and discredit acupuncture, but the world looks very different than we would expect if that were the case. Meanwhile, your only evidence seems to be that people get acupuncture and feel better. As I stated before, patients feeling better after a treatment is too simplistic of a measurement to hold true to a complicated reality. People used to drink radioactive water and report healing effects. People used to swear by bloodletting and leaches. It's really no surprise that today some people swear by acupuncture.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
I haven't heard of that either but I'll look into it. Man I've had epidurals and sac joint injections, fucking HURTS. I almost passed out because I was awake for it. Felt like a damn screw driver moving around in my back, never again
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Damn dude that's rough, nerve pain sucks I have it in both hands and my right forearm, my left palm had a chunk of glass go through it and my right arm had surgery which messed up the nerve. It's wierd though, like I can sorta feel my hands but it tickles instead of feeling, if that makes sense. No burning, just if you touch it it feels like a tickling feel and the harder you press the more pins and needles it gets, freaking wierd man. I hate it. Totally feel you bro, that's how I first messed up my back, fell off a roof while laying shingles but not 30 feet Holy shit
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Way to rain on my parade! Lol, much appreciate the science as always my friend
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying acupuncture works for everyone.
I'm just not going to believe that it doesn't work period.
I don't have to offer proof. It is a well known fact that big pharma runs medical schools and the books. We also know that big pharma also does things like slightly change a formulation for a medicine when a patent expires so they can still charge the big bucks for it.
I don't have as much problem with healthcare in other countries as much as I do the usa.
Insurance companies? They are corrupt to.
We can go back and forth all day. Im not saying Jane's sister got relief. I said "I" got relief so "I" could give a flying fuck what your study says.
Just saying, you can't really say if it does or not unless you tried it.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
Sucks for sure. The leading go to medicine gabapentin has horrible side effects.
I would say try acupuncture. At least once.
It was a ways up. The fall happened in steps if that makes sense. I didn't drop 30 foot straight down. I was slowed in the way down or I would've been hurt worse.
I watched another guy fall out the tail door of a kc-135. I forget but its a good ways up in the air. Hit the ground and bounced. Dude got up and walked away with nothing but bruises.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
As I said, you are free to have your prerogative. I happen to be of the opinion that anyone who is sick or in pain has the right to try whatever treatments they want. I just also think that they have the right to informed consent. Acupuncture carries risks, and patients should have a fair chance of weighing the risk and the cost against the benefit. If we tell patients that, despite millions of dollars and thousands of hours of scientific testing, acpucnture cannot demonstrate a measurable objective benefit, yet some people report improvement and relief after trying it, I'm fine with that.
Unfortunately that is not at all the typical information that is told to patients by acupuncturists. They are told about chi and meridian points and other purely fictional pseudoscience and offered acupuncture for not only pain, but literally hundreds of other conditions, some of which a placebo effect has no chance of helping, like infertility and even cancer. Meanwhile there is no evidence that acpucnture is capable of intervening in any of these conditions. This is a far cry from informed consent.
You don't have to offer proof that you had a good experience with acpucnture. You don't need to prove that you believe it works. Since none of us had your experience, we have no right telling you what you felt. However, you have made several serious and solid claims beyond your experience. When you declare something a "well known fact" you are not talking about personal opinion anymore, and it's completely reasonable for someone to ask you for proof.
I don't think it is at all clear that pharma companies "run medical schools and the books." It's strange that, if "big pharma" owns science and can make studies say anything they want, they would choose to make the science reject a large number of drugs they spend years and millions developing. There are hundreds of drugs that could be listed, from cancer meds to blood pressure to pain to depression, which spent years in trials and failed. Some drugs, like Viagra, are developed for a completely different purpose from what they end up being used for. That's because trials failed to show efficacy for the intended condition, but revealed a use elsewhere that could be marketed. Why would Big P choose to have the science make an unexpected turn like that? For an entity that is capable of suppressing cures and treatments on a global scale, they don't seem to be very good at controlling the basic science.
There is no shortage of people who have tried acpucnture and found it to be useless. And really, if I try acpucnture and it doesn't work for me, would that really do anything to change your mind? Of course not, so lets not pretend it actually matters if I have tried it. You're trying to convince me with an argument you wouldn't buy into yourself.
If you think we have been going back and forth you are mistaken. I have been making fair and relevant points and asking reasonable questions that should occur to anyone who is willing to invest serious thought, and you have been saying "nu huh" and "I don't give a fuck." The problem is that you're not just dismissing the evidence, you're also ignoring the obvious snags and contradictions in your own explanation. What's important to you is not the evidence, the logic or true investigation, what's important is the conclusion. That's why you have backpedaled from "the studies are negative because of big pharma" to "studies don't matter" in just a few quick exchanges. You're not invested in finding the truth, you're invested in supporting your belief. Again, that's your prerogative and you are welcome to take that position, but I'm afraid you're not going to be very convincing, and really shouldn't expect anyone to take you seriously.
AlphaPhase
Well-Known Member
Can you elaborate on the gabapentin? My Dr actually just started rx-ing it a month or two ago, 300mg x 3x a day. Seems to be helping a bit and haven't noticed many side effects so far but he wanted to up my dose to 600 mg 3x a day and I declined because I usually do get all the side effects from meds so I don't like taking anything I don't have to, I'm real sensitive to meds
Cannacat
Well-Known Member
My mum has gabapentin/pregablin (don't know if both or one or the other, just she's been prescribed both) for bulging and degenerating discs that push on nerves and cause pins and needles up and down one side of her body at random moments, as well as sciatica and chronic pain. She hates them, but she is really sensitive to medications, like cocodamol make her feel weird and tramadol made her sick for days, so she might be a special case. Thank fuck I didn't inherit it. She loves the diazepam but the doctor will only let her have it for short periods in emergencies cos she's a little too fond. But yeah, the nerve pain ones make her really spaced out, kind of gouching, talking out loud to dreams she's having while nodding out, but not in a way that looks pleasant. I'd have to take a shitload of proper drugs to get in that state
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
I quit taking it. I took it a number of years.
It makes me want to eat. Dizziness, sweats and other side effects.
The affects weren't too bad on me. I'll have to find it. There as thread on here about it or one that broke off on a tangent about it.
I'll see if I can find it.
My Dr has me on 1600mg gabapentin 3 times daily. I personally like the feeling it gives me. I'm calm and relaxed and can tackle my toddlers without yelling at them. The only side effect you may not like is it tends to keep me up at night, this works for me as I can do laundry and cleaning. Then when the gaba has worn off I'm able to sleep and wake up sometimes early. It can be habit forming and if you run out before your next refill it is pretty miserable