Anyone listen to real music?

BadDog40 said:

When rappers learn to play an instrument I'll consider it music.

MTV ruined music and turned it into show and image rather than substance.

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im not trying to be an ass about this... but...

it does not matter if you consider it music. just do not speak about it, if you have no clue about it.

it is like me talking about folk music - even tho i have never listened to it.

does that make sense? i am just trying to be clear as possible.

fukdapolice said:

im not trying to be an ass about this... but...

it does not matter if you consider it music. just do not speak about it, if you have no clue about it.

it is like me talking about folk music - even tho i have never listened to it.

does that make sense? i am just trying to be clear as possible.

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The difference is I have and do listen to some rap. So when does one 'have a clue about it'?

fukdapolice said:

you should stop speaking on music that you have no idea about. just because you don't like it, it does not mean you know about it.

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I have ears as well as eye's,ive heard lots of rap songs all the way through,i can make decisions based on what i hear within the song,i do not need to be a fan of rap to form an opinion on what i hear nor do i need to enjoy listening to rap to hear exactly what the lyrics are saying,there are no deeply hidden messages in the content of the lyrics that one must be a rap lover to understand,nor does one have to be from "the hood" to understand the meaning of the lyrical content.

FYI i grew up in, & live in Detroit, i know all about hood life,im not a 19 year old kid fronting tough guy with daddy's BMW, then going back home to safteyville USA & having momma do my laundry.

Quote," Spoken word is a form of literary art,or artistic performance,in which lyrics,poetry or stories are spoken,rather than sung ".

I dont like rap music & im aware of why i find no value in its content & the negative social values it brings to the table,a thread on this site just last week where a very young member found out about drinking a narcotic drink called "Syzzzurp" from hearing his favorite rap heros rap about it in different songs,now that he has heard his favorite rap heros rap about it he wants to drink the narcotic,his words not speculation on my part,great role models i'd say.

I also dont like rap music because of the extreme simplicity of its content,no real musical talent on a real musical instrumet is demonstrated in any rap songs,most melodic content contained in rap songs comes not from real life musicians playing instruments,its computer generated back beats of the utmost simplistic nature,the beats are so very simple that any 2nd month drum or bass student would easily replicate any musical content,no heavy musical skills are displayed in any rap ive ever heard,just droning,endlessly simplistic bass beats recorded at extreme spl levels.

Ive told you why i dislike rap based on what i know about the art form,based on what i hear with my own ears,based on the definition of musical ability,and based on the negative social values i see children replicating based on what their rap idols preach to them,now you tell me why you think rap is so great & what social value its bringing to the table.

BadDog & Pan...

i would like to apologize. i made an ass out of myself by assuming.

you see, every time i see someone trash hip-hop they usually dont listen to it, have no knowledge, and just spew hate. but after reading your posts, i see that is not the same with you guys.

so i guess all i can say about hip-hop to you guys is this: dont listen to the "hip-hop" that they play on the radio - cause that is not hip-hop! that is HIP-POP!!! there is good hip-hop out there, you just have to find it. rappers with good content, and smart lyrics. there are groups that use live instruments(the roots, stetsasonic).

smoke on guys

Hip hop is certainly music by definition....but not much further than that. It's extremely simple music compared to say jazz or classical. While no one can say it isn't music, but in the gradations of musical complexity, it is near or at the bottom. Not a judgment, just a factoid.


out.

sorry if you dont have knowledge on something you shouldnt judge it or speak on it. putting labels on things and judging is a habit i try to stay away from, but we are all human.

I believe I just displayed my knowledge of hip hop. It is music albeit very simple music. Listening to it doesn't make it more complex.....


out.

fukdapolice said:

BadDog & Pan...

i would like to apologize. i made an ass out of myself by assuming.

you see, every time i see someone trash hip-hop they usually dont listen to it, have no knowledge, and just spew hate. but after reading your posts, i see that is not the same with you guys.

so i guess all i can say about hip-hop to you guys is this: dont listen to the "hip-hop" that they play on the radio - cause that is not hip-hop! that is HIP-POP!!! there is good hip-hop out there, you just have to find it. rappers with good content, and smart lyrics. there are groups that use live instruments(the roots, stetsasonic).

smoke on guys

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Im responding not in anger of your post, nor am i trying to make you come around to my line of thought about rap,the reason behind my response is more to let you & other young folk know where i & alot of other anti rap guys are comming from,most anti rap people share the same issues about the negative aspects of modern rap.

Just so ya know,i have not allways loathed rap music,i was listening to rap & going to see the 1st rap artist live in 1968-69 or 70 when i was in NYC(too old to remember exact years),the genre was totally new & nobody had heard anything like the guy on stage with a full band & using spoken word instead of singing,it was pretty exciting to watch it all unfold when it was brand new,this was way before the sugar hill gang came out,i still listen to some very early rap from time to time,i hate what rap has become,nowdays its all about gang banging,pimping hoe's,killing,murder,dope & pretty much acting like assholes, punks & down right thugs,also along the way the need to have real skilled & talented musicians as part of the genre was replaced in order of importance,with the artists tough guy image being way more important than any musicianship he may have.

Also part of my extreme distaste of the genre of rap is its heavy influence on children where other than listening to rap these kids have no violence or drugs in their lives,its one thing for us adults who are aware of life to take drugs & to get into shit where people could get hurt or killed,but when little sissy kids from suburbia get their first ideas of doing hard drugs from the rap star they idolize its a pretty shitty scene,or lil johnny vanilla ice who gets his first ideas of carring a gun because he thinks it makes him hard like all his rap idols,these are not isolated instances either.

A quick question for all the people in this thread who really enjoy rap music & prefer it over any other genre.

Can any of you guy's see yourselves sitting there in your car when your 60 years old,car stereo blasting out Lil Jon at 137 DB ,or comming home from a hard ass day's work & putting on some Lil Wayne & chilling out

panhead said:

Im responding not in anger of your post, nor am i trying to make you come around to my line of thought about rap,the reason behind my response is more to let you & other young folk know where i & alot of other anti rap guys are comming from,most anti rap people share the same issues about the negative aspects of modern rap.

Just so ya know,i have not allways loathed rap music,i was listening to rap & going to see the 1st rap artist live in 1968-69 or 70 when i was in NYC(too old to remember exact years),the genre was totally new & nobody had heard anything like the guy on stage with a full band & using spoken word instead of singing,it was pretty exciting to watch it all unfold when it was brand new,this was way before the sugar hill gang came out,i still listen to some very early rap from time to time,i hate what rap has become,nowdays its all about gang banging,pimping hoe's,killing,murder,dope & pretty much acting like assholes, punks & down right thugs,also along the way the need to have real skilled & talented musicians as part of the genre was replaced in order of importance,with the artists tough guy image being way more important than any musicianship he may have.

Also part of my extreme distaste of the genre of rap is its heavy influence on children where other than listening to rap these kids have no violence or drugs in their lives,its one thing for us adults who are aware of life to take drugs & to get into shit where people could get hurt or killed,but when little sissy kids from suburbia get their first ideas of doing hard drugs from the rap star they idolize its a pretty shitty scene,or lil johnny vanilla ice who gets his first ideas of carring a gun because he thinks it makes him hard like all his rap idols,these are not isolated instances either.

A quick question for all the people in this thread who really enjoy rap music & prefer it over any other genre.

Can any of you guy's see yourselves sitting there in your car when your 60 years old,car stereo blasting out Lil Jon at 137 DB ,or comming home from a hard ass day's work & putting on some Lil Wayne & chilling out

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you'd have to ask people who listen to those guys. i don't listen to that bullshit music.

there's two sides...

i agree with you about the influence on the younger generations.... but that also has to do with the parents not doing their job. these young kids are so much more easily influenced these days.... growing up i knew the difference between right and wrong... its different now-a-days with these kids.

and to asnwer your question: yes and no. yes, i can see myself listening to the music. but no, not listening to those artists you named.

Not all rap is about murdering people, drugs, and fucking hoes. Underground rap is where it's at. I'll admit mainstream does blow for the most part though.

If you want to listen to some rap with actual meaning, hit me up.

I have never had a problem with the content of hippy hop flop. I'm all for free speech and letting the market dictate the success of that speech. Except for Al Gore....that dude needs to STFU already .

out.

fukdapolice said:

you should stop speaking on music that you have no idea about. just because you don't like it, it does not mean you know about it.

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I am not saying his/her opinion about rap was right or wrong but I will say that certain types of music last and others will be hot as hell fire for a while and then die out and later will seem very dated and not retain a following and not build new followers in years to come.

Look at the punk phase for example. About the only good thing that punk rock ever did was give the ugly kids a chance to be popular.

Pick one rap song that you think will be as played and as admired and as enjoyed and as appreciated in 50 years from now as Led Zeppelin’s "Kashmir" will almost certainly be.

Brick Top said:

I am not saying his/her opinion about rap was right or wrong but I will say that certain types of music last and others will be hot as hell fire for a while and then die out and later will seem very dated and not retain a following and not build new followers in years to come.

Look at the punk phase for example. About the only good thing that punk rock ever did was give the ugly kids a chance to be popular.

Pick one rap song that you think will be as played and as admired and as enjoyed and as appreciated in 50 years from now as Led Zeppelin’s "Kashmir" will almost certainly be.

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[youtube]OGHyutNq-S4[/youtube]

fukdapolice said:

[youtube]OGHyutNq-S4[/youtube]

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What you have there is a piece of music of the time, of the present era and as times change its meaning will be lost in history and will not hit home to people they way it does now to some people.

The music itself is not artistic enough to survive the struggle of time. The lyrics will not be anywhere as meaningful in the future when the things he sang about are history like WWI is. It lacks what is needed to survive the test of time.

The lyrics say a lot to many people today and hit home with them but things will not remain the same over time and the lyrics will not remain as meaningful and there will not be anything else for the song to fall back on to keep it alive and to retain a following.

The most famous of all music became so and lives on because of the music and not the lyrics. Heck many of the greatest works of music of all time never had lyrics and they live on and on and retain a following.

It is the music that makes something great, not the lyrics. Lyrics can add to it if the music is quality to begin with but you cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit no matter how much mayonnaise you add and that is what many modern artists, of different types of music and not just rap or hip hop, are trying to do.

Brick Top said:

What you have there is a piece of music of the time, of the present era and as times change its meaning will be lost in history and will not hit home to people they way it does now to some people.

The music itself is not artistic enough to survive the struggle of time. The lyrics will not be anywhere as meaningful in the future when the things he sang about are history like WWI is. It lacks what is needed to survive the test of time.

The lyrics say a lot to many people today and hit home with them but things will not remain the same over time and the lyrics will not remain as meaningful and there will not be anything else for the song to fall back on to keep it alive and to retain a following.

The most famous of all music became so and lives on because of the music and not the lyrics. Heck many of the greatest works of music of all time never had lyrics and they live on and on and retain a following.

It is the music that makes something great, not the lyrics. Lyrics can add to it if the music is quality to begin with but you cannot make chicken salad out of chicken shit no matter how much mayonnaise you add and that is what many modern artists, of different types of music and not just rap or hip hop, are trying to do.

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maybe for you. thats your opinion on the song.

and i think your opinion of the song is wrong.

Juicy will be a classic, that entire album is a classic. iduno anything about you, but i grew up poor, in the hood, and in the struggle. that song is about the struggle, and coming outta the struggle. it will never get old. maybe to the new generations, cuz all they listen to is lil wayne n his bullshit. i will forever keep GOOD music alive.

edit: and there will always be struggle in the ghetto, and in the hoods... so how would the song not last?

everyone has valid points but saying hip hop isnt music doesnt make it true. it may not be everyones cup of tea but to some it is important. some may say it is simplistic and it may be to them but to someone that has been listening since the early eighties not all beats and songs are created equal. if it were easy to create hip hop, why doesnt every tom, dick and harry create music that i actually like? why have some producers become legendary? because they are skilled at what they do. there is a lot of garbage out right now but i can look to the past to make myself happy, just as some of yall do with your preferred type of genre. hip hop may have had some influence on todays culture and youth but lets not point the finger directly at hip hop entirely. todays society is influenced by many negative things, for example grand theft auto. the game where you can shoot grandmas, fuck and kill prostitutes, sell drugs etc...i knew a woman who says her 7 year old plays ....wtf. what about babies raising babies with no guidance? what about maury povich show? what about our countries economic state, coupled with hard drugs and no jobs in many areas? there are a multitude of things that are shaping our youth, and there are many things to blame along with music..some of my favorite hip hop songs are about, faith, honor, family, love, friends.. i am not gonna change yalls minds, just as you wont change mine, but to that, i say good day sir hahaha.

A lot of rap songs will never lose meaning. I think you guys have to turn off the radio and listen to other kinds before you form that idea.

I think music is like a first impression, and you just have to make the connection. It just has to be presented to you appropriately for you to appreciate it. Being a younger adult, I didn't have to privelage to hear all of the classic rock bands while they were hot. But I still listen to them on occasion, and if they aren't presented in a way that I can appreciate them I label them no good. Like the eagles for example. I never really enjoyed their music until I heard them in concert.

But one of my favorite bands is TOOL. I think maynard is one of the best rock vocalists. He also sings in A Perfect Circle which is also an awesome band. Between the two bands, maynard has covered a lot of classic rock songs like led zepplin's "No Quarter" and "When the levee breaks" and also Ted Nugent's "Stranglehold." I love all three of these songs when maynard does them, I think he's so much better. But the led zepplin version of when the levee breaks just sounds like crap compared to the modern synths.

I'll spare you with links, but if you like Led Zep or Ted Nugent, check out those songs by TOOL/APC. In my opinion the modern sound is much better, but that just may be my connection being young and all.

fukdapolice said:

maybe for you. thats your opinion on the song.

and i think your opinion of the song is wrong.

Juicy will be a classic, that entire album is a classic. iduno anything about you, but i grew up poor, in the hood, and in the struggle. that song is about the struggle, and coming outta the struggle. it will never get old. maybe to the new generations, cuz all they listen to is lil wayne n his bullshit. i will forever keep GOOD music alive.

edit: and there will always be struggle in the ghetto, and in the hoods... so how would the song not last?

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Maybe I am basing my opinion on to high of hopes for the future but I do not believe there will always be ghettos and the same sort of struggle going on.

For one even now everyone that is struggling their struggle can often times be very different, though just as difficult, and his music will not hit home with them in the least.

As for ghettos look at Cabrini Green in Chicago, it was among the worst of the worst. I know because I lived outside of Chicago for 32 years, and now it is gone or at least almost totally gone. Its been torn down and nice expensive places are being built and the South Side is being not only returned to the nice place it once was but is being made even better.

Most of the residents have moved to the outer suburbs and while still in low income and assisted income housing they no longer live in the same atmosphere or situation and while it is not as if suddenly their lives have become wonderful the same things that people in many rap songs sing about no longer directly apply to the new lives of those that have moved.

The same thing has happened in much of Harlem and what was once a hellhole is now upscale and the former residents live in different locations and different situations and the same environmental influences no longer exist in their lives.

It may take decades for all such places to no longer exist but that is what I am talking about, how things will be in decades from now and once you remove the environment the life is different and songs about that life that rely almost totally on their lyrics and not on quality music behind them will be meaningless and just be a part of history.

I don’t mean to knock your taste because music is after all a matter of taste as much as foods are and you will like what you like and if right now it hits home for you it has true meaning and it is strong and powerful for you but when the times change that same strength and power and meaning will not be felt by others like you feel it now.

Try looking at it this way and see if it makes any sense to you. Consider some of the really powerful very meaningful very popular anti-war protest songs from the 60’s and early 70’s about the war in Vietnam. They hit home and hit it very powerfully to many people in that era but what are they today? They are nostalgia, they are a memory, they are still half liked by those of us who were of that generation but even among us they now totally lack the power and the meaning and are nothing but a blast from our past. Once we are gone who will listen to them and say wow, that was great, that was powerful, that had real meaning? The answer is no one.

If the County Joe and the Fish song "The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag" was played on the radio, if they could play the "fuck" part, or even if they just played the song minus the cheer how many people today would say wow that was a really great song! No one other maybe than us old farts and it would only be because it brought back a moment in time of peace, love and dope and protesting. To anyone else it would be like a gimmick song or half a joke and not be powerful or meaningful or hit home with them because they were not alive at the time and did not see and feel what we saw and felt at the time.

The very same thing can honestly be said about the very greatest of all the protest songs of the era. Some were very powerful and very meaningful and absolutely hammered themselves home to us but today they are like looking at pictures of our 9th birthday or something and have about as much impact on the modern listener as it would be for us to show strangers the pictures of our 9th birthday and expect them to enjoy them.

Times change and period music from each point in time dies out when its original audience dies out but true good music lives on and on.

You may not agree and that of course is your right. You may see the music you like as being truly good music but try to listen to it once without the lyrics and then ask yourself what is there that will create a new audience in 20 or 50 or more years because the lyrics will not be as powerful then and they will not be as meaningful then and they will not hit home with people then so once that happens what is left, what is truly artistic? Nothing.

The art of rap is the lyrics and they are locked in time, they are a part of their era and they will not live on and evolve so new audiences will love and appreciate them but a song like "Kashmir" will be listened to many years from now and be very appreciated for its artistic quality. It will remain ageless and not locked in time or in any one era and that is the difference just like the great protest songs of the 60’s and early 70’s have become locked in time and now no longer in their era they do not hit home with anyone and are only audible memories of the past half enjoyed by people who lived in that era.