Anyone Make Charas?

Btw how many of you guys have actually been to India? Im sorry but i get annoyed with stupid liberal idealistic opinions favoring the continuation of a literal weed over allowing impoverished farmers to maybe just maybe be able to send their kids to a decent school.

I spend 9 years in India and 8 seasons in the Malana and Pavarti valleys if that can be of any help.
What do you mean by quote: "favoring the continuation of a literal weed over allowing impoverished farmers to maybe just maybe be able to send their kids to a decent school"

thelespauls1 said:

I am just going by my personal experience and what rhe locals tell me. Yeah the ganja they grow in the south is still grown in higher altitudes. For example Kerala gold as you mentioned is grown closer to Munar- altitude almost 2800 meters. Not as high as the Himalayas, but ive nver seen weed growing past 10, 000 ft

The local bud I get here in pune is grown in ths nashik region which is famous for being one of the few regions in india producing decent wine domestically. It is also hilly terrain.

As far as introducing artificially selected hybrids contaminating their native birthplace...thats a whole nother argument. Its going to happen eventually whether people like it or not. The farmers who make very little money from their risky operations are not going to give a flying fuck about preserving wild traits. They are going to realize eventually that indias gigantic growing middle-class is demanding better quality product. Besides how do you think hemp got to be? Its techinally the same species as ganja but has little to no thc. This is what happens when u let weed grow wild..it tends to lose potency with each generation.

Like I said I am reporting first hand experiences with local producers. I have travelled all over the country and know what is available where and for how much. I dont have any "data" per say from research articles so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Click to expand...

Yes a MONSTER grain of salt at that. The highest mountain in Kerala, the Anamudi is 8,842ft, Munar is 5250ft.
Malana is at 9938 ft, the summer pasture where I spent a few seasons are way over 10.000 ft. Parvati valley jungle grows over 12.000ft FOR A FACT.
How long did you stay in India by the way???

qwizoking said:

If a person has that reaction to dry sift ...and not the hash oil you also make...I was told it was calcium oxalate crystals/raphides I think is the name in reference to plant crystals.. I believe that's the cause of the burn when munching on mj plant matter (if you like to suck on your yummy stems you may/will feel a reaction)
Just a thought

Click to expand...

Happy New Year my friend. You were in my mind when I mentioned asking et "voila"

qwizoking said:

If a person has that reaction to dry sift ...and not the hash oil you also make...I was told it was calcium oxalate crystals/raphides I think is the name in reference to plant crystals.. I believe that's the cause of the burn when munching on mj plant matter (if you like to suck on your yummy stems you may/will feel a reaction)
Just a thought

Click to expand...

It's something on the plant for sure, cuzz im still irritated by the material if I dry it after I run it. It's real small and last a long time, I'll look up those raphide's because I handle enough plants with high oxalate crystal content that the pain should feel the same but no. If i even sniff on an envelope with kief inside my chest will burn so I think dry sift just makes it airborn more easily. I have no allergies to the final oil.

I processed some master kush today. Most pleasant plant I've ever worked with, super organic and smells of all spice, I almost didn't wear a mask I didn't itch. So there's definetly something to be said per strain.

My point is that your argument against introducing better genetics to this country is baffling to me. Explain to me why it is a crime against nature. What gives other countries the right to decent genetics but not the farmers in india? This is really the crux of my position. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say so clarify please.

Thats awesome that you spent several seasons up there. You must have had the chance to notice how things have changed dramatically for the avg villager some in good ways bad in others. I hope more people will visit this awesome country. Ive spent more than 6 years of my life here not to mention being ethnically indian as well. I was born in london, grew up in usa and constantly travelled back every year at least to see family, take care of business etc.

If you have experience in India, what is your opinion of the varieties grown in the north vs south?? Did you actually try smoking the plants meant for charas rubbing? I did and was not impressed at all. They really are just best for charas.

Frenchy Cannoli said:

I spend 9 years in India and 8 seasons in the Malana and Pavarti valleys if that can be of any help.
What do you mean by quote: "favoring the continuation of a literal weed over allowing impoverished farmers to maybe just maybe be able to send their kids to a decent school"

Click to expand...

How exactly are you measuring altitudes? I am going by my gps altimeter watch I use for hiking. would find it very hard to believe that there were decent plants at 12000 ft. In the himalyas the tree line is usually around 12500-14000 ft so those plants must be quite extraordinary.

What months were you there? Harvest times in the north vary greatly from the south

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=14625
http://forum.sensiseeds.com/uploads/29077/t2.jpg
Pictures of cystolithic hairs on cannabis ...they are noted in all members of the Cannabaceae family

Wish I was cool enough to put pics on here but I thought they were nice and help show what I was referring too...
They break off easily, and are very irritating...it makes sense to me that a sift would contain a rather large portion that could easily get airborne


"My point is that your argument against introducing better genetics to this country is baffling to me. Explain to me why it is a crime against nature. What gives other countries the right to decent genetics but not the farmers in india?"

No just no..other countries don't do it as well ...what you call "decent" genetics, I do not...hybridization destroys the wonderful qualities that make a landrace, and they don't realize till much later the devastation it causes..plants that adapted in a totally different environment with different pests different everything....its ruined....

Your showing your ignorance in mj breeding...breeding of anything really lol..heirloom fruits and veggies are highly desirable and collected often..heirloom tomatoes have came to prominence recently (well not that recent I guess) and for good reason, they have a much sweeter taste even though they aren't desirable from a commercial standpoint (like a 26 week sativa)
Words of the late jack harlan talking about veggie/fruit hybridization
we are loosing the genetic diversity at an accelerating and alarming rate.
"These resources stand between us and catastrophic starvation on a scale we cannot imagine. In a very real sense, the future of the human race rides on these materials. The line between abundance and disaster is becoming thinner and thinner, and the public is unaware and unconcerned. Must we wait for disaster to be real before we are heard? Will people listen only after it is too late." Every heirloom variety is genetically unique and inherent in this uniqueness is an evolved resistance to pests and diseases and an adaptation to specific growing conditions and climates. With the reduction in genetic diversity, food production is drastically at risk from plant epidemics and infestation by pests. Call this genetic erosion." http://www.bountifulbrookline.org/2011/12/importance-of-heirloom-seeds-in-local.html?m=1
This is a serious topic around the world and not just cannabis

Hybridization IS a crime against nature..and those new hybrids will also eventuality adapt.

I don't know anything about indica..anything....or sativas from that region for that matter......but I do know a lot about central American sativas, been growing landrace sativas just over a decade, and have friends/contacts in that region that have grown their strains passed down through generations, families take great pride in their genetics and are not impoverished idiots.. it is indeed a crime against nature to hybridize any landrace and allow pollination to destroy the rest..sure if you like qualities of one to breed it with another and keep running clones..especially if trying to sell seed stock and improve flowering times and yields to increase profit and appeal to indoor growers(that's all modern breeders are doing, creating the next flavor of the month and "blank name" kush)...but nature knows what its doing..the hybrids will eventually reduce disease and pest resistance, potency will lower and cannabinoid ratios muddle until its all stoney junk with the same boring smell and quick tolerance.
You have to preserve the unique genetics that evolved..even taking an heirloom and growing it indoors won't be the same as its natural soil/environment and it will eventually adapt (quite quickly actually) landraces are beautiful unique works of art.. like any other heirloom they need to be preserved
The reason we have such a variety of genetics and terpene combinations is because of heirloom strains....we all know this
Perhaps thinking about the concept but in reference to pure bred dogs...this should be common sense and is actually discussed often on riu.. "strain hunters" for example

You can see the impact, looking at Mexican cartels ruining local weed...most of the weed is sold to cartels however, by the producing family

I can't even put in words how wrong you are...seriously dude

"The cannabis that grows in charas producing regions tend to be more sativa dominant but very low in potency if smoked as buds. Not to mention the seeds..sooo many. There people dont pull all the males cuz they need their seeds for the next season" "look like mids cuz they dont practice proper curing and usually press bricks to make for easier transport"

In mexico they leave a few males, they deem to be the best(this is very difficult requiring trained eyes to not alter and ruin the herb through selective human breeding over proper environmental adaptations ) this leaves some heavily seeded herb that stays with the grower. The resulting herb is less seeded the further away and is what's sold. The higher quality seedless bud doesn't get far from the border however(where I am ) most is bought/claimed by buyers before harvest .. it is extremely potent and results in old tales of hippies in the 70's.."most potent herb they ever smoked"
Now hash making is a traditional process to ease smoking and improve upon what they had to work with...very much like bricking in south America..it does improve potency by removing plant matter obviously and concentrating cannabinoids...bricking has been practiced for just as long..bricking is very much an art as well, transforming unsmokable "bud" with 8inch fox tails..buds looking like some Jamaican dreads.. I've seen a half inch between calyxes on long spindly stems (think grinspoon)..they dry the bud as you normally would for a cure but instead of jars they would press it after about 2 weeks of hanging..a very difficult process to time just right.. the weed cures to perfection in the brick with even moisture. A remarkable invention very useful in their harsh environment.. some of the most flavorful smoothest and potent weed I've ever smoked was properly bricked (not machine pressed and cared for improperly by cartels)...it just so happened that bricking and turning to hash also improved transportation by slowing oxidation etc but don't think that because it aids transportation it automatically has a detrimental effect..there are roughly 6 landrace sativas in central America, each very different and a trained grower can tell what the plant should taste like and the high associated just by the structure
Well damn..I think I rambled a bit....my point is
We have to preserve the unique highs and flavors before they become lost.. they are all so beautiful in their own way..if you want to use those land races to create a strain that better suits your needs, that's fine..just remember those landraces that made it possible and remember that to retain vigor and unique properties associated with each most companies have to do back crossing...land races will forever remain a staple in all breeding trials

Do some reading on the importance of heirlooms or land races not pertaining to mj

thelespauls1 said:

My point is that your argument against introducing better genetics to this country is baffling to me. Explain to me why it is a crime against nature. What gives other countries the right to decent genetics but not the farmers in india? This is really the crux of my position. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say so clarify please.

Thats awesome that you spent several seasons up there. You must have had the chance to notice how things have changed dramatically for the avg villager some in good ways bad in others. I hope more people will visit this awesome country. Ive spent more than 6 years of my life here not to mention being ethnically indian as well. I was born in london, grew up in usa and constantly travelled back every year at least to see family, take care of business etc.

If you have experience in India, what is your opinion of the varieties grown in the north vs south?? Did you actually try smoking the plants meant for charas rubbing? I did and was not impressed at all. They really are just best for charas.

Click to expand...

If you do not understand the value of landrace genetic my friend you are missing especially with your ethnic background. The genetic that is growing in the Himalayas is unique and not only because of the geographic. The feet of the Himalayas may well be the birthplace of cannabis and to temper with it is criminal especially when 'do gooder" bring feminized seeds and have no clue about breeding. YOU HAVE THE BETTER GENETIC my friend and it hurt to see people like the Strain Hunters who come and collect landrace and leave behind feminized strains. My friend they come to India to take your genetic not tp help you create a better one.
I went the first time to the Parvati and Malana in 1980 and it was love at first sight. The seasons spent in those valleys are some of the most amazing experience of my life at every level. The hospitality I received and the moment shared in India/Himachal are priceless and believe me if it was a help to locals I would be the first to promote it.
I did try to dry flowers in Malana one season which is a challenge in the wild, I cannot really judge because we smoke it all in shilom with Charas since we did not have tobacco and where stuck full snow on the Chanderkani for the night.
Souvenirs, souvenirs. I have to agree with you nonetheless, the dry flowers seem weak compare to some good Thai for example. You do make the best Charas in the world on the other hand, my friend I would give any of my cutting edge Californian genetics Hashish for some Nactang and Toch, all day and some.
I did not spend much time in the Kerala but I had the chance to smoke some nice flowers and made some real good dry sieve.

Ahaha I think that's my longest post yet
Lmao I don't even have the patience to reread that and check for spelling and whatnot

Don't worry about the spelling and Thanks for the content Qwizo

Thanks Qwiso..... Cystolith hair's your the rat bastard that's been killing me. This fluffy pamper's type bud from the mk seems to be really low on these guys, while the blueberry rock nugs are like razor city. I most definetly see why my kief is just a bag of bronchial ninja stars seeing how violent the dry can be.


Oh a different tangent since you guys are talking genetics, I'm negotiating the purchase of 63 acres in jamaica for farming. If I wanted to house a little micro climate for heritage landraces to evolve on their own. Is there any worth to this country's weed? I mean I grew up on "soldier weed" but i swear it's just basic skunk, even this Master Kush smells like 100% jamaican brick weed except 1000x less hammered into a cube. I personally have never had good jamaican anything so I don't have hopes of getting back to some awesome past, but I'm a big ecological systems guy so I like seing things like 7th generation corn growing ontop of dead corn from last season with no help.
I normaly wouldn't talk about silly stuff like this but I got the guy's who are the one's on the flight with that Gem Seed arguing bioregion gentrification and my ear's are WIDE OPEN.
If you thought a country had sold itself out, would bringing seed's back to environment's they thrive in considered genetic taint?
Like Can I dream of growing Afghan's in jamaica on terra pretta calcium caliche soil with desert like periods. Or am I going to get my hands chopped off for what I just said. Im hoping this land give's me my own ability to continue landrace breeding even if I suck at indoor grow for broke.

In 5 year's legalization could be at the point of MMJ importation to meet demand, there's provisions in canada's new bone crushing mmj laws that allow the new monopolie's to import from foreign countries, it even says you'll need your own security for transport when you come for it at custom's. I don't mind shipping bricks of kief to be processes into oil when it arrives, I just don't think i can get my rotovape and vac oven to jamaica.

There are alot of regional mjs that are phenominal in jamaica. Spent alot of time there. Jamaican lambsbread, and another ive only seen in ochos rios area red gum.

Is there any worth to this country's weed? I mean I grew up on "soldier weed" but i swear it's just basic skunk, even this Master Kush smells like 100% jamaican brick weed except 1000x less hammered into acube. I personally have never had good jamaican anything so I don't have hopes of getting back to some awesome past, but I'm a big ecological systems guy so I like seing things like 7th generation corn growing ontop of dead corn from last season with no help.

Since I'm already typing long posts.....
https://www.rollitup.org/members/qwizoking-542656/albums/cfl-31280/2848592-624/
https://www.rollitup.org/members/qwizoking-542656/albums/cfl-31280/2848593-617/
Both of those are my Jamaican cross
In fact I often say when people ask what my favorite strain is (for anytime of day)

"a Jamaican sativa crossed with a blueberry to give it a warm glow complimenting the true sativa high,and it flowers a bit faster.....that's my favorite weed ever, I can smoke it at night or in the morning and it tastes wonderful....I also love a good Columbian sativa (very similar to true Jamaican), each hit is toking on adrenaline makes your heart beat out yur chest gives sweaty palms and can induce panic.. often people ask if its laced. Its good too, will cut through any high and has no ceiling whatsoever. Taste lame , spicy....
Probly not helpful at all. Just thought I'd share my 2 favorite types of weed. True racy columbian and a Jamaican x bluberry...don't know if you can buy either....anything that flowers less than 16 weeks just doesn't have the high I like" Great uplifting motivational high with the warm body glow creeping slowly behind..smoke a bit more than normal and I can just drift to sleep..probly with a smile on my face.couldn't tell you a breeder...I created it, at least the high,by crossing a jamaican landrace with a buddies blueberry kush of some sort..something about those blueberry plants, they really hit the spot for me.."

2 quotes from me and my special clone......I don't know a lot about Jamaican
But none are kushy smelling or diesely or skunky...
But here is a quote responding to someone asking about central American strains if anyone is interested
"I only grow landrace sativas..there are roughly 6 types in central america and mexico Some categorize into lowland and highland..I don't know if I agree with that but... Most will flower 14-17 weeks(averaging all the types, most won't hit as low as 14 and are usually hybrids) and are more dense in structure.
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/kiwi-seeds-mexican-haze/prod_3114.html That is a very typical Mexican plant but not super quality,does look like a lowland and one of few that I would actually purchase..one of few that is actually a Mexican plant at all lol... They are very different yes.. besides the high altered from different terps they have different cannabinoid ratios.. you have lowlands that smells of honeysuckle, very floral with a higher cbd content and shorter flowering time. These are not hybrids as some believe but hybrids are out there yes, mainly from cartels.. she has a sister that smells of sweet melons https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/dna-genetics-seeds-cannalope-haze/prod_2948.html
..looks like that, and cucumber even all taking that sweet honeysuckle smell.. its another lowland of different region with also a short flowering time and same high...but she has a delicious marshmallow pheno hiding in her.. on the opposite end of the spectrum you have the limes and mangoes..lime can range from nasty Crayola to straight lime juice and has a very racy high and long flower some pushing 18-19 weeks. The mangos are very euphoric and trippy. They can range to a sweaty cheesy type citrus funk.. all of these are very different in growth and structure but NONE look like a"haze" they really pack on for the most part..I will never grow a "haze"

I hope Idon't sound braggadocios but Ican (so could any sativa grower from that region) tell for the most part what the plant will taste like and the high associated just by growth structure...same way some growers can instantly recognize that sour d growth https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/connoisseur-genetics-seeds-east-coast-sour-diesel-haze/prod_4433.html
like that.... so yea their is a huge difference between all these strains especially the true landraces that aren't hybridized together but have kept their traits..the sour comes from Mexico as well..not diesel mind you just the sour. Many don't know the true sour and expect a diesel to come with it https://www.rollitup.org/members/qwizoking-542656/albums/cfl-31280/2848604-dsc-0186-zps75733e9d/
my Mexican sour Mexican is very different than columbian and Jamaican....I have my "specialty" in mexican. growing strictly land races for over a decade..I do grow alot of south american but can't tell you the regions and be confident in their qualities etc...but a strong astringent funk not cheese but dusty..idk how to describe comes from s.a. so does the spicy peppery and are the base for many strains. they cantypically flower up to 24 weeks Mexican doesn't like to turn purple but the further south, columbians and sa will.. Mexican is very much a hybridization that readapted over generations as a sort of trade route..such creates the mango that I mentioned can turn sweaty spicy cheesy..they are much higher in thcv and will obliterate the more soothing high from mexican.. Jamaican is like columbian in many ways but none are the same from anywhere. A real experienced grower can still tell all the differences in flavor etc just by looking at the structure of asativa well lol that's all my ramblings for now..."

I don't know how other strains would react in the climate.. I grew year round in the similar deserts of west tx.. without watering or adding nutes, sativas are very finicky to the environment and don't like lots of nutes.. hybrids that addapted to "greenhouse/hydro" levels of nutes and lighting etc etc just won't work out there I promise...especially if your in the humid rainy areas. September is the rainy season and they have adapted to take massive amounts of water then they almost stop uptake altogether later in flower they have also adapted to producing terps that kill of bud rot and other molds. Myrcene from those mango sativas is very effective at killing aspergillus and why certain bricked weed refuses to mold...etc etc

If you want to go their you should bask in its true glory and not try to alter it...a real sativa that flowers over 18 weeks will absolutely destroy you and your tolerance. They have no ceiling, very little antagonising components and its very easy to smoke too much.. this is how rastas and myself smoke all day long without burnout or being unable to get high

Aaaaand scene!
OK reps for everyone that managed to read all my posts haha
I think I might be done for the day lol

Okay. I see your points about genetic diversity being important to the industry as well as nature in general.


Now what I am saying is that your philosophy just seems a little colonialistic no? Wild strains have to endure competition in the only regions where people have not started to grow with high yield genetics from reputable breeders. What they did in strain hunters was as their title suggests, they hunt for new and rare wild strains. For the purpose of creating a seed bank. They also realize that farmers could improve their product by using basic growing teks (such as pulling males) etc. They didnt exactly suggest using hybrids but they still helped give advice on how to improve their current strain.

Again...why is it okay for californians to have the rolodex of strain choices while other less developed countries where people can still grow without too much fear of law enforcement. Your philosophy seems to be that let evedyone else do their thing naturally, and then we will come in with our advanced technology and select the best to create the very hybrids you are against?

Everything "natural" does not equal better.

You are arguing from a philosophical standpoint about preserving natural lineages, but I make my case via economics. If potent strains get into this country ( and they will whether you or I like it or not eventually) farmers can and will make much more money. Theyre really not going to care about preserving local varieties.


Also those heirloom tomatoes your on about have Still been through some form of artificial selection in their genetic history.

Definately two of the longer posts ive read but both are full of good info. I will agree with you 100% about heirlooms and landraces. I tried to grow some of the red gum seeds indoor and the potency was similiar but the taste and appearance was completey different. I was told by a resident jamaican that there are 8 original strains there. Many of these were cross bred in 70's and 80's when tourism picked up and also with the agnostics? That moved there in early 80's with mainly dutch strains. But many local mountain farmers still grow those originals which are all long cycle sativas

Okay. I see your points about genetic diversity being important to the industry as well as nature in general.


Now what I am saying is that your philosophy just seems a little colonialistic no? Wild strains have to endure competition in the only regions where people have not started to grow with high yield genetics from reputable breeders. What they did in strain hunters was as their title suggests, they hunt for new and rare wild strains. For the purpose of creating a seed bank. They also realize that farmers could improve their product by using basic growing teks (such as pulling males) etc. They didnt exactly suggest using hybrids but they still helped give advice on how to improve their current strain.

The whole point of seed banks is to maintain genetic records of lineage. This applies to non cannabis plants as well. its not impossible to preserve genetics while still providing farmers with higher yield crops

Again...why is it okay for californians to have the rolodex of strain choices while other less developed countries where people can still grow without too much fear of law enforcement. Your philosophy seems to be that let evedyone else do their thing naturally, and then we will come in with our advanced technology and select the best to create the very hybrids you are against?

Everything "natural" does not equal better.

You are arguing from a philosophical standpoint about preserving natural lineages, but I make my case via economics. If potent strains get into this country ( and they will whether you or I like it or not eventually) farmers can and will make much more money. Theyre really not going to care about preserving local varieties.


Also those heirloom tomatoes your on about have Still been through some form of artificial selection in their genetic history.

damn I need some sativa! All theses indica dominant hybrids make me too lazy

Qwiso have you ever grown any African landraces strains??
or anyone?

I have quite a few from Holy Smoke seeds that I have yet to try
-Mozambique poison
-Malawi Gold
-Zambezi

Oh I read's it all
n now I feel like shit.

I have to go read 10 subcool articles just to feel like I have the cadence of your dialectic to jump rope with you.
I love Expert Vision, when i hear shit like knowing the High by growth pattern is like me knowing this duck is going to taste xyz because of the fat tenderness when I pinch his breast.

Yeah so feeling like no matter what I plant, no matter how good it grows, Im just gunna look like a bum to a Texas SativaMan.
All those long flower times just sound like the reason blue mountain coffee is revered due to it's extended growing season in the niche microclimate that gives it 2 extra month "tropi" cold.
Rasta's I dunno, I think your smoking better than my bretheren in the hills, I dunno maybe it's the dung beetle cure. Last time i bought soldier weed in jamaica I was afraid of getting ticks from it.

All in All I bow down to your talk. 4 now...... I don't think I can handle anymore education, I do know who's genetics i may cry for though.....

thelespauls1 said:

Okay. I see your points about genetic diversity being important to the industry as well as nature in general.


Now what I am saying is that your philosophy just seems a little colonialistic no? Wild strains have to endure competition in the only regions where people have not started to grow with high yield genetics from reputable breeders. What they did in strain hunters was as their title suggests, they hunt for new and rare wild strains. For the purpose of creating a seed bank. They also realize that farmers could improve their product by using basic growing teks (such as pulling males) etc. They didnt exactly suggest using hybrids but they still helped give advice on how to improve their current strain.

Again...why is it okay for californians to have the rolodex of strain choices while other less developed countries where people can still grow without too much fear of law enforcement. Your philosophy seems to be that let evedyone else do their thing naturally, and then we will come in with our advanced technology and select the best to create the very hybrids you are against?

Everything "natural" does not equal better.

You are arguing from a philosophical standpoint about preserving natural lineages, but I make my case via economics. If potent strains get into this country ( and they will whether you or I like it or not eventually) farmers can and will make much more money. Theyre really not going to care about preserving local varieties.


Also those heirloom tomatoes your on about have Still been through some form of artificial selection in their genetic history.

Click to expand...

The Strain Hunters brought FEMINIZED seeds my friend, you must not realize what it is. You really do not get what I mean either. It is not a philosophical standpoint of view but the fact that you have the most precious genetic in the Himalayas and you DO NOT want to muddy that pool, think about it before going into the colonialist speech.
Seriously just check up what is landrace before speaking the way you do