Anyone used Nature's Living Soil and found rust-looking spotting?

Hey everyone,

I appreciate you taking on this question with my low post count. First time caller, longtime fan.

I'm at Day 18 with my indoor White Widow Auto (Seed Stockers). Of the four strains I planted (this, Green crack auto, CBD lime dutch compassion, & Herbie's GG auto), this plant has been the most vigorous of the lot. Now however I suppose she is around the age that a deficiency would begin to show. I have had to deal with problems during this grow owing to broken humidity and temperature monitors. Fungus gnats (now mostly gone, thanks to neem oil spray and nasty-ass diatamoeceous earth (sp?)), extremely high humidity during lights out (which I corrected with a humidity controller + going from 20/4 to 24/0, so that there are no risky moments for my humidifier), and, probably owing to the former issue, a few overwatering moments. Occasionally one of my humidifiers was crowding this plant and dumping extra-extra high humidity on it, to the point of condensation. I've fixed that. A couple of nights of space heater-induced heat stress (about 85-90F for no more than four to eight hours).

Here is what I am working with: 3x3 Vivosun tent, Bloomspect 1200w (actual ~270w) at ~21", planted in 5 gal. plastic pots with Fox Farms Ocean Forest, and--and I wonder if this is the issue--Nature's Living Soil Autoflower mix amendment. I suspect the latter is the issue because I have read of some people having nutrient issues, and so I went slightly (and, admittedly, inaccurately) UNDER the amounts prescribed on the NLS instructions. Instead of 1lb NLS : 5 gal soil, I used probably .75lb (or less) NLS : 5 gal soil. I made a Solo cup-size clearing when I planted sprouted seedlings where it is JUST FFOF soil, no amendments. I also did not do soil layering per the NLS instructions. I did this because I figured if there was a deficiency down the line

Problem is, I cannot match this odd pattern I see in the pictures to any particular deficiency or excess. Note how orange the brown is; and that it does not rub off on my hands when I touch it. I have looked at charts like this one (cf. https://loudclouds.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/marijuana-deficiency-chart-jorge-cervantes.jpg). I may have Nitrogen toxicity, although that is hard to imagine given that I am using a pretty basic, organic growing medium -- but I have also read that NLS users have trouble with Ca+, so I am eyeing that possibility. The last possibility is some type of fungus, given the troubles I mentioned earlier. I had similar spotting on the Green Crack auto, and snipped that one leaf. Now she seems to be OK, if a little slow-growing and stunted. In fact, I have had somewhat slow growth on all plants for several periods now--probably, again, owing to that excess moisture in the tent.

Other info:
-humidity (as of Monday) now controlled @ 65.9%; need two humidifiers for this b/c I'm in dry SoCal
-non-pH'd distilled water
-BLOOM & VEG dials cued all the way up on the LED
-aloe vera scraped foliar spray & coconut water as of a couple of days ago
-watering every 2 or 3 days
-purchased a Solacure FP 2' and ran that pretty close over this plant yesterday (about 18") for 25 minutes, in case of mold
-NO TIP BURN
-intake fan 24/7, exhaust on digital time to go off for 15 mins with 7 minute breaks
-one cheap clip fan blowing about 8" over the canopy, another on ground for extra circulation

What gives? I'm a little bit scratching my head because of all the confounding variables involved in this grow. Any help warmly welcomed. Happy to provide more info.

Could root damage from the gnats already have taken hold? Am I dealing with too-weak amendments? I have Build-A-Soil's Build-A-Flower top dress on the way, plus WOW Mycorrhizal Inoculant. Beneficial nematodes just arrived yesterday. LAB brewing in a cabinet as I type this.

Thanks!
BN

image2.jpeg
1.2 MB




image1.jpeg
1.2 MB

bump!!

also considering: yellow leaf spot, pH acidity (soil tester is broken)

A few things stand out:

Watering with non pH'd distilled water...you're going to want to know what the pH is on this water. I know it's a pain, and it requires additional equipment to do this, but distilled water has been known to be less than ideal in terms of pH and if it's way off, it's not going to benefit you. (FYI, I use simple pH drops and they work just fine, they don't require batteries, calibration, specific storage, etc...and they're super affordable)

I would stop any foliar sprays; you really shouldn't have to use these and if you do, they should be minimized as much as possible. The extra leaf moisture isn't something you need. More often than not, in this game of growing, less is generally more.

I can't comment on your soil or your amendments because I don't use them, but if you've read where Ca is an issue with others using the same soil / amendment, I would look into how you're going to add more Ca. Without any other information, if I were going off your pics alone, the brown spots would at least make me go back and double check my Ca inputs.

I'd start with my pH and be sure it's where it needs to be. Once you have the pH dialed in, then start tinkering with nutrient adjustments, soil adjustments etc. However, if you don't dial in the pH, you'll just simply go around chasing your tail in terms of getting things squared away; it's important. Good luck friend.

Thank you for this awesome response, CC! I really appreciate it.

I think you are dead-on about the water pH. The more I learn about distilled water, the more ambivalent about it I become. Right now I have fifteen gallons of garden hose water sitting in the sun, de-chlorinating. Hopefully that'll get me back on track.

What made me really scratch my head was that the spots seemed to spread quite quickly, and I know yellow leaf spot is a real possibility given the moisture traumas this lady has suffered. The trouble with YLS would be, in the case of a plant so young, that I'd hate to prune infected leaves. If I did that, I worry about stunting growth.

Yet another potential culprit I haven't dealt with personally, but from doing research have seen, is moisture bead phytoxicity. I haven't sprayed any copper or anything, but those few bouts of moisture that left condensation heavy on the leaves -- they could have admixed with the LED light into a potent, er, death laser?

So, just to triage this: should I isolate and Ca+ supplement this plant until I know more w/r/t leaf septoria? I trust your instincts to look into Ca+, so that's where I will be going first anyway -- I just want to be absolutely sure I'm not loosing a YLS plague upon my babies...

Peace & Thanks

I use the same soil and don’t ph this early. Looks line you have been watering it a lot or watering so much there is a lot of run off. Usually that soil last me close to 20-25 days

Here are some better shots that point to a few issues. Note: a) the issue pronouncedly affects older leaves (although in some of the closer shots, you can also see the very new growth getting brown and black tips) and b) the variable palette, tending towards a kind of copper color.

Wattzup: Interesting, yeah - I definitely think there was an excess of moisture for a minute, and that that may have meant I should have reduced watering frequency. That being said, I have not had to water to the point of having any runoff yet! I kept each watering fairly light. But I'm definitely going to heed that advice, thank you - perhaps I am still watering too frequently.

Bugnacious said:

Wattzup: Interesting, yeah - I definitely think there was an excess of moisture for a minute, and that that may have meant I should have reduced watering frequency. That being said, I have not had to water to the point of having any runoff yet! I kept each watering fairly light. But I'm definitely going to heed that advice, thank you - perhaps I am still watering too frequently.

Click to expand...

I water full each time but I don’t water until the pot is light af. Those dry times helps the plant and gnats are another sign over watering too often. Don’t leave run off drain that as well for now.

these things will help you not over water.

Am I the only one here seeing powdery mildew all over the leaves and the soil in the first set of pics?

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

Am I the only one here seeing powdery mildew all over the leaves and the soil in the first set of pics?

Click to expand...

That looks like something he tried to feed the plant and spilled on the leaves. Looks like a pile of powder near the stem good catch

Yeah, it's diatomeceous earth. But good eye.

Bugnacious said:

Thank you for this awesome response, CC! I really appreciate it.

I think you are dead-on about the water pH. The more I learn about distilled water, the more ambivalent about it I become. Right now I have fifteen gallons of garden hose water sitting in the sun, de-chlorinating. Hopefully that'll get me back on track.

What made me really scratch my head was that the spots seemed to spread quite quickly, and I know yellow leaf spot is a real possibility given the moisture traumas this lady has suffered. The trouble with YLS would be, in the case of a plant so young, that I'd hate to prune infected leaves. If I did that, I worry about stunting growth.

Yet another potential culprit I haven't dealt with personally, but from doing research have seen, is moisture bead phytoxicity. I haven't sprayed any copper or anything, but those few bouts of moisture that left condensation heavy on the leaves -- they could have admixed with the LED light into a potent, er, death laser?

So, just to triage this: should I isolate and Ca+ supplement this plant until I know more w/r/t leaf septoria? I trust your instincts to look into Ca+, so that's where I will be going first anyway -- I just want to be absolutely sure I'm not loosing a YLS plague upon my babies...

Peace & Thanks

Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't think it's a Ca issue, but ask yourself, how will your plant get Ca...if you can answer that with some certainty, it's not an issue, if you can't you'll at least want to address the question. Of course your pH is paramount, but I bet if you laid off the foliars and dialed in you pH, your little issues will go to the wayside. FYI, I don't think septoria is the issue. Good luck

So no one else suspects Leaf Septoria? Paranoid because I've never dealt with a fungus before! Thanks all, again, for responses.

CannaCountry said:

Honestly, I don't think it's a Ca issue, but ask yourself, how will your plant get Ca...if you can answer that with some certainty, it's not an issue, if you can't you'll at least want to address the question. Of course your pH is paramount, but I bet if you laid off the foliars and dialed in you pH, your little issues will go to the wayside. FYI, I don't think septoria is the issue. Good luck

Click to expand...

Looks like you posted this while I was typing re: YLS. Thank you!

Calcium, I had assumed, would be coming from the bone meals in the NLS amendment, but apparently that has depleted in short order. Probably because: excess moisture, overwatering, lower-than-label-instructed amount used in potting soil (FFOF).

In which case, or in addition to the above ^, Ca+ lockout could have occurred as a result of poor pH soil management..

If your Ca is coming from bone meal and that bone meal hasn't been sitting in that soil for quite some time it's very likely not available to the plant; the downside of organic inputs.

Here's the thing...the cannabis plant wants Ca on a steady, flat stream...it doesn't want it all up front, nor does it want it all at the end of flower...it just wants and needs a small, steady input of it from seedling to near the end of flower. If you do this, Ca will not be in question. If you're going organic, then you have to let inputs like bone meal break down and they won't over a typical run, simply because of time. This is why many recycled soils are better the next go round. A synthetic or salt grower can simply add CaNi and his plant is back to sipping Ca immediately. With all that being said don't over think the Ca....curtail the spraying and see what happens.

Wow CC, brilliant advice. I'm humbled. I will check back after my next watering, lay off the foliar and let you know what's up! Thanks again a million.

Ok, so here are the results of a lab soil test. A whole battery of issues remain after the pH was corrected with garden-hose water (left out in the sun 48 hours).

NOTE: the results above occurred one watering BEFORE I decided to flush my organic soil. I know this is a controversial subject, but I decided to flush when I realized there were clear toxicities of several nutrients - and I was right. I used 4.0-4.5 gallons of water to flush each 5-gallon pot.

On the day I flushed, I added some Build-A-Soil Build-A-Flower top dressing. Before that, I used dolomite lime to bring up the pH. Otherwise no extra nutrients.

My question now: given that I have flushed in the ratio described above, what to do? I can't afford another soil test. I have been waiting weeks for an EC meter to arrive.

I have already ordered Build-A-Soil's "Big Six", which will take care of the more obscure deficiencies I'm experiencing.

But, check out those sulfur levels! Calcium! These are big excesses I worry will not be adequately addressed by the amount of flushing I've done. While I'm loathe to flush my organic soil again, perhaps it is necessary. I'm wondering what other people's experiences with these sorts of high and low numbers have been like.

For what it's worth, I also discovered I had a pretty serious drainage problem in my cheap-o plastic pots. I've drilled 1/2" holes in my pots as of yesterday because, even with modest watering at Week 5/6 (think: .5gallon/plant every 4 or 5 days), I was dealing with soil that was quite moist a couple of knuckles deep. I'm assuming this is part of the reason for the poor uptake of sulfur, but I can't be sure as there is scarce useful information about this issue on the web.

Any further advice much appreciated.
BN