Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

hyroot said:

it all comes down to genetics. You are comparing critical mass , one of the largest yielding strains to an oldschool real blue dream in 5 gals. In 7 gals. He should get a much bigger yield. You can't compare gpw unless both growers are growing the same strain, using same nutrients and same media and same veg time.

done and done

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No I'm not the guy does just as good with just about everything that one is a Shit another thread he does cheezal. And why can I not compare gpw when it is quite obvious vert can not be done with led and he can actually do better by having smaller plants directly under the bulbs. Also I thought Blue Dream was known for being a good yielder unlike OG's? I have yet to see anything over 1 GPW for LED lighting please show me.

tampee said:

No I'm not the guy does just as good with just about everything that one is a Shit another thread he does cheezal. And why can I not compare gpw when it is quite obvious vert can not be done with led and he can actually do better by having smaller plants directly under the bulbs. Also I thought Blue Dream was known for being a good yielder unlike OG's? I have yet to see anything over 1 GPW for LED lighting please show me.

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there's real blue dream and the more common fake blue dream. The fake one is a larger yielder. Critical mass is an even larger yielder. That dude is obviously vegging for 6 months minimum. There's a several factors in every grow. Not just lighting. First and fore most is genetics. Health of the plant, air flow, temp, humidity, media, nutrients, etc... Unless every factor is the same comparing is useless. Again you can't compare one strain to another in yield. No matter how much you believe, it doesn't work like that.
gpw is a joke really. I judge by yield per plant and strain. That's it.

spazatak said:

some of those photos are the same from the previous thread which you posted and he says in that thread there are 2 X 600 W.

Thread 1 week 9 12/12 2 X 600W

Thread 2 (which you say is 3 X 600W)

Quote from Heath "here is a later grow where I surrounded the vertical bulbs with 6 plants." yet you say in your post 2 plants

So what is it... 2 plants? 3 plants or 2 bulbs or 3 bulbs...


2 threads with conflicting information..


Im not saying his plants look shit.. the buds look great but why the bullshitting?

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Just your reading comprehention getting the better of you again I guess heaths words first page post #7 "Hi nut, I turn the pots in veg but once they are in flower they are left as they are. There are 2 plants and I expect to have around 60 0z + off the two of them.


Heath"

first page post #1 " Here are a couple of CM trees at 31 days of 12/12 the first pics are of them being transported into the flowering room. The plants are 6'6" including pot and are lit by 3 x 600w hung vertically."

page 3 post # 27 " Ronin, redeye, nut, BAMBI and elmo thanks for calling in, the plants were harvested at week 10 and yielded 36.6 Oz off the left plant and 43.8 Oz from the right plant, for a total of 4.65 Lb." he did mess up on the conversion too pounds though.

no mention of 6 plants just face it you wasted your money on LED lighting and you are butt hurt.
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/critical-mass/1081-cm-trees.html

hyroot said:

there's real blue dream and the more common fake blue dream. The fake one is a larger yielder. Critical mass is an even larger yielder. That dude is obviously vegging for 6 months minimum. There's a several factors in every grow. Not just lighting. First and fore most is genetics. Health of the plant, air flow, temp, humidity, media, nutrients, etc... Unless every factor is the same comparing is useless. Again you can't compare one strain to another in yield. No matter how much you believe, it doesn't work like that.
gpw is a joke really. I judge by yield per plant and strain. That's it.

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GPW is no joke when you are paying .32 kwh like OP especially when it can be doubled and as for veg their is next to no veg on them other systems and for the last time he don't grow Critical Mass exclusively this is the guy who made Black Rose for fuck sakes do I really need to search through all the guys many forum accounts to prove it? only 2 grows of his I have seen where CM.

tampee said:

GPW is no joke when you are paying .32 kwh like OP especially when it can be doubled and as for veg their is next to no veg on them other systems and for the last time he don't grow Critical Mass exclusively this is the guy who made Black Rose for fuck sakes do I really need to search through all the guys many forum accounts to prove it? only 2 grows of his I have seen where CM.

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no one cares. Your not going to get anyone to change their lights. You are talking about someone else. Go achieve those same numbers then come back. Yes gpw is a joke. Grams per kWh is what you are after or grams per umole. But every plant grows differently. You are trying to debate a bunch of well experienced growers including myself. Obviously you are not experienced or you would be comparing your own grow. So go get some experience and come back in 10+ years..

I have missed a bunch of this but...

So do you copy his design/style and also get 2g/w????

I do not and never have gotten much more than .75g/w. Call me a shitty grower, but that is how it is for me. Grnated that is horizontal bulbs...and vert is know to yield more.

And led's can be used in vert...or any shape.

Dang those buds are huge but that is not necessarily a good thing. Buds like that are shading themselves out, fresh calyxs and smell farmy. Anytime my buds get bigger around than a half dollar (dry) quality suffers. Others results may vary but that been my experience. All that said, LED can create more light than HPS/watt so whatever he is doing with HPS can be done even better with LED. It would probably help bud quality as well.

I'm pretty sure those heath robinson threads are pretty damn old...I googled that shit wayyyyyyy back lol...weird arguments people come up with

The guy is basically saying the same thing I said several times, led is more efficient, no doubt, especially when you have a hid bulb in a hood that needs to direct the light down, it is wasteful, but a bare bulb vert utilizes all the bulb. I wouldnt do a grow like Heath does, but many people do and the results are there. If I could grow as many plants as I wanted id be flowering rooted clones under led in a sog. 4 plants under a 600 hps does well, 4 plants around a bare 600 does great, but id still take a led sog if I could for harvest per year and efficiency.

tampee said:

heaths words #7 "Hi nut, I turn the pots in veg but once they are in flower they are left as they are. There are 2 plants and I expect to have around 60 0z + off the two of them.

Heath first page post #1 " The plants are 6'6" including pot and are lit by 3 x 600w hung vertically."
page 3 post # 27 the plants were harvested at week 10 and yielded 36.6 Oz off the left plant and 43.8 Oz from the right plant, f
no mention of 6 plants just face it you wasted your money on LED lighting and you are butt hurt.
l

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let me highlight (without the big words to confuse you) the contradiction which YOU and HEATH have posted...namely the 2 or 6 plants bullshit... you also claimed in one thread it was 2 lights and the same photos from another thread is 3 lights...

try and follow along junior

there were 2 photos that were the same from different threads...

one was 2 X 600W post from Heath "week 9 12/12"... and the other thread was 3X 600W which you posted....heres your thread...- (But wait theirs more 2 plants + 3 600w hps = 5.025 lbs 80.4 OZ and 2,225 grams for 1800 watts http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/critical-mass/1081-cm-trees-3.html)

"and heath never said he had six plants"

Oh really?

quote from heath... page 4 #36 " here is a later grow where I surrounded the vertical bulbs with 6 plants."


here is the same photos from

2 X 600
3 X 600
and where he said he added 6 plants yet you claim 2.



funny how you dicktucked mine and GG question .... are you hitting this with your HPS?

The fact of the matter the thing you fail to mention or comprehend is heath is growing with synthetic nutes in a very large rdwc. He invented under current you know. No one will ever organically soil grow the same yield per watt as a finely tuned rdwc. It's not even a comparison. Getting over 16 zips plus out of a 1000 organically is doing really good IMHO . So the Apache matched the 1000 with roughly 30% less power. Sounds good to me. You could run 3 for the electrical cost of just over 2 1000 hps.

If heath robinson came in here and said..."this is what I am doing...I don't think LED's can do this"...that is one thing. But you coming to say led's suck because this guy(not you) can do this. At least show what you do. I never say or claim to be the biggest yielder, but I show it how it is.

But you came in here talking shit on me just as much as the light.
It was clear that in the same situation and in the same growers hand it will achieve the same results. You said it your self...g/w is no joke...and the led about double the g/w of the 1000w hps in the same situation. Also I am not an outlaw trying to make a quick buck...I care about maximizing my crop and it's potential. I don't really care if it cost $500 more over a couple years to use led counting the start up. Is what it is, cost of producing better medicine. But if you wait it out for the ROI, led's are the same or cheaper in the end. And for me(the OP), the ROI is about 8-10cycles on just the wattage difference alone. Figure 1 month veg and 2 month flower gives 4 crops per year so just over 2 years. Then factor in cooling which is some what exponential with scale. I being small scale, but still save myself the need to ever run AC(500w-800w).

So once again, answer the my question...WHAT DO YOU YIELD, AND HOW DO YOU DO IT?


Jbone...after the first run in with bigger plants, overlapping veg and flower rooms talks out the time difference and you can have the same amount of crops per yield with what ever growing style...only the first run takes longer. But you have to be in a situation that allows you to do it....space and legalities basically.

Yea that dude is what we on the Internet refer to as a troll

I'm planning on a tree style grow in hempy with vertical run leds. I'm looking at the onyx bloom and a51s. 4 or 5 a51s r/w or onyx per tree. Or a combo of both. The at200 would be an option but I'm not sure the price per if I bought 10. The others have quantity discounts. Also has anyone had experience with www.plantphotonics.com ?
He tells what leds he uses and the bins. They look very efficient but I do think the red white or warm white is the way to go.

did I miss it or are the lab thc results still to come?

Greengenes707 said:

I have missed a bunch of this but...

So do you copy his design/style and also get 2g/w????

I do not and never have gotten much more than .75g/w. Call me a shitty grower, but that is how it is for me. Grnated that is horizontal bulbs...and vert is know to yield more.

And led's can be used in vert...or any shape.

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There's only one LED designed to be used omnidirectionally that I know of, and its not that good of one, and way overpriced. A vertical circle works well with HID because you eliminate the reflector. "Vertical" with LED usually means a wall of plants in a straight line or arc, but not a circle. If you calculate on a basis of cost per unimole of light, including the cost of the light itself over a 5 year period, HPS is much, much cheaper. There's a link at Growers House that links to some university study that breaks it down by different ways to use the lights. When 90% of the light is captured, as in a vertical grow with HPS, the HPS is a third of the cost of the best LED. It seems that the amount of useful light reflected from reflectors is greatly exaggerated

Stephenj37826 said:

I'm planning on a tree style grow in hempy with vertical run leds. I'm looking at the onyx bloom and a51s. 4 or 5 a51s r/w or onyx per tree. Or a combo of both. The at200 would be an option but I'm not sure the price per if I bought 10. The others have quantity discounts. Also has anyone had experience with www.plantphotonics.com ?
He tells what leds he uses and the bins. They look very efficient but I do think the red white or warm white is the way to go.

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His lights only cover an area slightly larger than the light itself. That gets very expensive.

Red1966 said:

There's only one LED designed to be used omnidirectionally that I know of, and its not that good of one, and way overpriced. A vertical circle works well with HID because you eliminate the reflector. "Vertical" with LED usually means a wall of plants in a straight line or arc, but not a circle. If you calculate on a basis of cost per unimole of light, including the cost of the light itself over a 5 year period, HPS is much, much cheaper. There's a link at Growers House that links to some university study that breaks it down by different ways to use the lights. When 90% of the light is captured, as in a vertical grow with HPS, the HPS is a third of the cost of the best LED. It seems that the amount of useful light reflected from reflectors is greatly exaggerated

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We at home can make a light to fit any space. Some one on here,"onlyonehigh" or something like that has an awesome diy vertical light.

I know the study. it's not bad. Except that the AT is the original at120 and no a51(so top of the line 5w white are not being tested), and they don't have the cxa cobs in there either. The top performing lights on that test are brand new basically and are hitting 1.7µmols/w... lighting science group LED(very little known expect it's about $1K for 300w...same $/w as all other high end brand), and gavita/phillips double ended hps(commercial king).

Cost is not that much more when DIY'ing and the performance/output is bar none. And like I have said...even apache prices are worth it in not so long of a time.

There are many factors holding LED's back form being widely use, and soon the most used....But performance is not one of them anymore. Neither is cost imo, but to each their own on how one spends their own money. All I will say is I know what it produces in the first run far exceeds it's cost. Then it will do it over and over again for years untouched.

Red1966 said:

His lights only cover an area slightly larger than the light itself. That gets very expensive.

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Are you referring to the plantphotonics?

It's alive...



Just the first one built. Been working on the house all day so will finish the rest tonight. Might take couple days to get the final housing/configuration together. But the engines will be ready asap. Talk about an anyone can do it light...just getting everything together and right is the bitch.