Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Well ...
They have to be a bit more tested and then produced at some numbers first ....

And all the paper stuff ,about introducing a company should be finished...
I dunno...
...
 

weedman420gr

Active Member
Astir Team Bravo!

After these results i can say that the 21st of December is not the End of the World but the begining of a whole new one... ;-):eyesmoke:


**Merry Xmas to you all and especially to Ganja...but he will have a Merry Merry Xmas anyways...:eyesmoke::leaf::weed:
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
21/12/12 ...
The destruction of what was taken for granted ...
Taken too seriously,maybe ....
Anyway...
Leds are here to stay ....

From now on ,even the lowest quality of them (high power leds ) ,at the lowest power (350 mA ) ,can grow plants
almost as effective as HID lights,if used in appropriate ways ,even with fluxes as low as 150 umoles /sec* ..
With less than half power from HID and way less than 1/3 of energy spend....


( * the six panels of Ganja have about that flux ... )

Now ..

For sure are many ways utilising leds and all their sub-systems (cooling,driving,dimming ,chaneling,ect ) ..
All have pros and cons ..
All ...

Thing is ...
Possibilities are increasing constantly...
...
Seemingly endlessly...

Combining right techniques and " ways " ( or " schools " ) ,a really effective panel can be made ,even from cheap electronics
(diodes / drivers / mcpcb ) ...


We can design the exact same thing ,with superior quality electronic and related parts ...
The price will increase maybe even 200% ...
Will their efficiency increase as much ?
Or their service life,will it be double or triple ?

Ok ...For the hi-end freaks we can custom made the whole thing with state-of-the-art materials...
And plenty of pdfs to accompany with...


I prefer the cheap ones ...
They do their job ,just fine ...
Brother used 135 Watts ,harvested 215 grams ...(of superior quality herb AAA' ... )
....
And that is the "primitive " rather "raw " ,first generation of Astir panels...
..

He-he-he.....
..Step by step....
 

weedman420gr

Active Member
A pop up question real quick...:eyesmoke:

SDS,do you think that the 1-1.5(2.0max)g/w ratio can also be reached with a smaller number of panels * ? ( 2-3 for example) (*and ofc a smaller number of plants)
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Maybe ..
But it needs designing from scratch ...
Total led number ,spectra,cooling ,ect ...

This way ( Astir panels ) is not an easy and "comfortable " way ...

Dealing with a lot of cabling ,strings and weight ....

But ,because light is in many ways adjustable ( direction ,distance, thus power ,overall power ,spectral quality,ect ) ,
yields can increase ,even with low/moderate overall power ..( made for economic crisis affected growers ,in mind... )..

So one uses up to ten panels per sq.meter (230 Watt approx ) and might get even 370 grams of herb (.... Ganja's 1.6 gpw... )
Well...Starting with 2 panels and gradually increasing up to ten,let's say....
Really economic growing method to employ ....
Not that economic to obtain the multiple panels ..
(i.e. 60 € approx per complete panel ) ..
...

For bigger wanted powers or grow spaces ,this way is not the best ...
Other methods then ,should be utilised ...

What I really think ,is that with the appropriate phosphor led tech
( special made leds or remote phosphor screens ..),
soon, the 2 gpw mark ,will be way surpassed ...
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
remote phos 1.jpg



Phosphor converted white LEDs are becoming more and more attractive for general lighting applications because of the steadily increasing luminous efficacy numbers reported by LED-suppliers. Despite these high numbers, a further significant improvement step can be made when a low-to-medium brightness (<500 kCd/m[SUP]2[/SUP]) source is acceptable. The wall plug efficiency of a blue LED is generally better than that of a conventional white LED made from the same die. To take full advantage of this, we have developed medium-brightness LED-modules (~150 kCd/m[SUP]2[/SUP]) for general lighting in which the phosphor is applied remote from the blue LEDs. By direct comparison with modules in which conventional high power white LEDs with almost identical dies are applied, we have shown that on system level the remote phosphor modules can have up to 50% better efficacy. Using a downlight module as a carrier, we have shown that in the relevant color temperature range of 2700 to 4000K a high CRI (>80) can be obtained in combination with a high luminous efficacy, while the optical efficiency of the module can be over 85%. A module efficacy of over 100 lm/W at 4000K with CRI 80 seems to be within reach, with a long-term expectation of over 180 lm/W. The remote phosphor LED modules deliver well homogenized white light with a Lambertian radiation profile. They are ideal for general illumination, as they combine glare reduction with high system efficacy and enable high optical efficiencies of the luminaries. The RP modules enable forward compatibility by well defined interfaces and optical properties that are decoupled from the actual performance, form factor and number of LEDs in the module. The Philips Fortimo downlight system is based on this remote phosphor concept, featuring forward compatibility and a total system efficacy (including driver) of over 60 lm/W under operating conditions using currently available Luxeon Rebel emitters.
http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=1338679


Remote phosphor technology is another approach you can take in creating your LED lighting application. The technology of remote phosphor light source element is achieved by bonding phosphor to a substrate, instead of incorporating it into the LED die package. Combining the remote phosphor plate with Royal Blue LEDs, and a mixing chamber, white light can be achieve with no visible point sources. This approach provides a low glare system capable or higher system efficiency, increase reliability and less color shift over time.
http://www.futurelightingsolutions.com/en/technologies/Pages/remote_phosphor.aspx

Thermal color stability

The application team also measured color shift of the tested lights from the chromaticity at 25°C to that at 85°C. We won’t detail those results here, although they will be available at a later time on the Cree website. But we will summarize the results.

In the case of the white LEDs, the phosphor is placed on the LED chip. The phosphor temperature can therefore be very close to the junction temperature of the LED, around 90°C when the heat stage is at 85°C. The conversion efficiency of the phosphor can drop with increasing temperature, thus there will be less yellow light from the phosphor and the overall LED color will shift toward blue. Generally speaking, the remote-phosphor systems don’t exhibit as much color shift over the temperature delta. Of course the lamp or luminaire design team can easily accommodate color shift by testing products at temperature. Moreover LED component vendors such as Cree are increasingly binning components at 85°C so the product designer can be assured how the components will perform in application.
Given that our tests with remote-phosphor systems in different configurations have shown increased light output, you may think that the approach is clearly superior. Our tests were comparable to actual applications such as a recessed downlight, or a lamp in a pendent or a wall sconce. But the evaluation doesn’t end until we consider why the remote-phosphor system showed an advantage and consider the cost tradeoffs of each approach. How it works
In an integrated white LED, the phosphor is very close to the chip, either as a thin coating or embedded in a silicone encapsulant matrix. The blue light generated by the LED chip emits in all directions. Some of the light rays will interact with the phosphor on the LED chip resulting in a conversion into yellow light. Actually the converted light consists of many different wavelengths, but the spectral distribution is primarily yellow. These yellow rays are also emitted in all directions and some of them will reflect back to the LED chip and be absorbed, resulting in an efficiency loss (Fig. 5).
In comparison, in a remote phosphor system, the phosphor is placed far from the LED chip. As the blue light reaches the phosphor and excitation-emission process occurs, the yellow light from the phosphor emits in all direction as in the white LED, but since the LED chip is far away, the chances of these yellow rays hitting the chip and being absorbed is significantly lowered. As long as the remote phosphor system is well designed with a high-efficiency reflector that redirects yellow light reflected downward, the overall efficiency in a remote phosphor system will be higher than in the case of the white LED.



http://ledsmagazine.com/features/9/7/6



 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Small update :
Last day of 3rd week at 12/12 ....( 4 weeks vegging & 4 weeks "transitioning " & 3 weeks of 12/12 = 11 weeks total ,by today... )
PC225758.JPGPC225762.JPG
PC225763.JPGPC225764.jpg
PC225765.JPGPC225767.JPG


Two panels : 8 x CW , 12 x WW & 4 x Red 620-640 nm
Two panels :10 x CW ,2 x WW ,10 x Red 620-640 nm & 2 x Violet 390-410 nm
One panel of 6 x CW , 6 x NW ,8 x WW & 4 x Red 620-640 nm
And three panels of 6 x CW ,2 x NW ,12 x WW & 4 x Red 620-640 nm.....


All together 190 Watts at plug ,(drivers included ) ...

-Total 192 leds at @350 mA -arranged in groups of 24 pcs in eight panels -:
-60 x CW
-12 x NW
-72 x WW
-44 x Red 620-640 nm
-4 x Violet 390-410 nm ...

60 x CW ....
4 x 390/410 nm ...
Pretty "quality" oriented overall arrangement ...

I 've to change the scheme to something like,(for better yields ..) :
20 x CW ( more simply : Blue 455 +a bit of green/yellow )
20 x NW
( more simply : Blue 445 + a bit of green/yellow )
96 x WW
( more simply : a bit of Blue 455 + plenty of amber/red/far red )
52 X Red ( 620-640 nm )
4 x Violet ( 390-410 nm )

3 of Ganja's panels were 4 x CW , 4 x NW , 12 x WW & 4 x Red '630' (620-640 nm ) ..
Correct ? ( I've been telling you ,that these would be champs... )
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
A pop up question real quick...:eyesmoke:

SDS,do you think that the 1-1.5(2.0max)g/w ratio can also be reached with a smaller number of panels * ? ( 2-3 for example) (*and ofc a smaller number of plants)

I think I could have achieved this with a Indica dom strain and/or more panels than I had. Pure Sats (or sat dom) tend to grow tall and lanky, with lots of wasted lower trunk + longer spaces between bud sites. Even if mine was a 4ft plant (it was 3ft) it would likely have grown enough extra bud to qualify

Most indoor tents are < 6ft, trying to grow Sat dom in them requires snapping the main stalk. In a previous Sat dom grow, I had a 4ft plant with a 3ft snapped stem running horizontally. That requires a different configuration of panels. Also that Sat dom plant had 3 times the side branches, so 1+ g/w has a lot to do with the phenotype + optimal light balance + quality nutes + reasonable RH, optimal temps, controlled pH...
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
http://secure40.securewebsession.com/2nc99ci87.site.aplus.net/products_conv.php

http://secure40.securewebsession.com/2nc99ci87.site.aplus.net/data_sheets/HTR650.pdf

Check out ,where the comparison with a japanese maker led is ...

Notice the final output spectrum just with a blue die and phosphor HTR 650 ...

What more to ask for ?
...check out also blue chip 460 nm(or else,if wanted ) + HTR 640,630 & 620 .... (=pink / magenta leds)
http://secure40.securewebsession.com/2nc99ci87.site.aplus.net/data_sheets/HTR620.pdf
http://secure40.securewebsession.com/2nc99ci87.site.aplus.net/data_sheets/HTR630.pdf
http://secure40.securewebsession.com/2nc99ci87.site.aplus.net/data_sheets/HTR640.pdf
Now ....Imagine that in a remote phosphor led light ....

( prices vary much between different phosphor sellers ... )

And custom phosphors :
http://secure40.securewebsession.com/2nc99ci87.site.aplus.net/customphosphor.html
Or...
http://beijingyuji.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-213442021/LED_Phosphor.html#products
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Guod ,long time no see !

Hey my brother...
Need few drops of knowledge here....

From what I've read up till now...
Main methods for applying the phosphors to substrates ,in order to construct a remote phosphor screen are :
-Chemical Deposition ..(difficult ..)
-Sol -gel techniques ... (doable..)
-Silk-screen techniques ( ??? )
-UV-cured silicone polymers

Any thoughts about the whole thing ?
Any DIY method that is sufficient enough and efficient for bonding Phosphors with PMMA and/or Polycarbonate screens ?

I'm thinking just mixing phosphors ,a strong but volatile organic solvent (i.e. chloroform ) and some PMMA / Polycarbonate...
And then with an air-brush ,spray the thing to the screen ...
What is wanted is a matte (and not glossy ) surface(thin layer ,up to 0.5 mm ) with plenty of phosphor ,strongly bonded with the substrate (screen ) ....
Bonding material should be UV resistant ,handle temps up to 100°C ,scratch-resistant and of course as transparent as possible (and with a matte finish...)..
Any ideas ?
 
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