660 leds with no 730s'.. aka high R:FR ratio illumination....
What
some say....:
High R:FR Ratios ( R:FR ratio 655-665 nm vs 725-735 nm )
Fluorescent tubes and high pressure sodium vapor lamps are popular PAR sources in CE, and both provide R:FR ratios several times higher than sunlight. Due to the spectral properties of Pr and Pfr, changes in R:FR above ca. 1.5 do not cause a proportional change in the phytochrome photoequilibrium (Smith and Holmes 1977). Therefore, the R:FR-based neighbor detection mechanism is likely to be distorted or disabled when canopies are grown under extremely high R:FR ratios. Some experimental evidence for this idea has been provided by studies with amaranth, in which CuSO[SUB]4[/SUB] filters were used to increase the R:FR ratio of the light received by the canopies and reduce stem elongation. These studies have shown that very high R:FR ratios result in decreased (rather than increased) canopy net productivity. It is not clear whether this decrease is caused by (1) the elimination of an active sink of assimilates (i.e. the growing internodes), a change in the pattern of light penetration through the canopy (see below), or a combination of the two. In any case, these results appear to directly contradict the notion that canopy growth at high densities is limited by the diversion of photosynthate to "shade-avoidance" responses. Of course, the use of artificially high R:FR ratios may be a convenient way to obtain short-statured plants in CE, which may be desirable for many crops grown for horticultural or ornamental purposes (McMahon and Kelly 1990, Rajapakse and Kelly 1992).
Another predictable consequence of the use of extremely high R:FR ratios in CE is the elimination of phototropic responses triggered through phytochrome. Since these responses may play a role in the dynamics of gap-filling by the canopy, it is suggested that the increase in light interception over time (and therefore canopy growth) will be slowed under very high R:FR. Of course, the extent of this retardation would depend upon (1) the quantitative importance of phototropic responses in gap-filling by the shoot population, and (2), the extent to which phytochrome and B-absorbing photoreceptors play redundant roles in controlling phototropic responses in canopies.
Finally, very high R:FR, which disable the phytochrome-mediated mechanism of neighbor etection, will almost certainly result in increased size structuring in dense plant populations. From a plant grower stand-point the establishment of a strong size hierarchy in the population might have two negative consequences: reduced total yield at high densities and reduced yield uniformity.
You know by now,where to find those....
INTRODUCTION
Attempts to use artificially lit cabinets to grow plants identical to those growing in sunlight have provided compelling evidence of the importance of light quality for plant growth. Changing the balance of red (R) to far-red (FR) radiation, but with a fixed photosynthetic input can shift the phytochrome photoequilibrium in a plant and generate large differences in plant growth. With FR enrichment the plants elongate, and may produce more leaf area and dry matter (see Smith, 1994 these proceedings). Similar morphogenic responses are also obtained when light quality is altered only briefly (15-30 min) at the end-of-the-day (Ballare 1994; these proceedings). Conversely, for plants grown in natural conditions the response of plant form to selective spectral filtering has again shown that red and far-red wavebands are important as found by Kasperbauer and coworkers (Kasperbauer, 1992). Also, where photosynthetic photon flux densities (PPFD) of sunlight have been held constant, the removal of far-red alone alters plant growth (Mortensen and Stromme 1987; McMahon et al., 1991). As shown in Table 1 for chrysanthemum, with FR depletion plants grown in sunlight are small, more branched and darker green. Here we examine the implications for plant growth and flowering when the far-red composition of incident radiation in plant growth chambers is manipulated.
OVERVIEW
As a broad generalization, far-red rich lamps are beneficial and sometimes essential, for plant growth and flowering in artificially lit chambers. Thus fluorescent and sodium lamps, being FR deficient may cause stunting and poor flowering. Brief end-of-day FR exposure may alleviate some of the stunting of growth but will probably have complex effects on flowering. A more beneficial approach appears to be continued FR enrichment over the whole photoperiod. A further complexity is that the need for FR input may vary cyclically over the day.
http://biology.mcgill.ca/Phytotron/LightWkshp1994/Contents.htm
Vey interesting info about 660 & blue...& uv... light...
-PHYTOCHROME, PLANT GROWTH AND FLOWERING
-REQUIREMENTS OF BLUE, UV-A, AND UV-B LIGHT FOR NORMAL GROWTH OF HIGHER PLANTS,
AS ASSESSED BY ACTION SPECTRA FOR GROWTH AND RELATED PHENOMENA---
PLANT PHOTOMORPHOGENESIS AND CANOPY GROWTH
-PHYTOCHROME-MEDIATED RESPONSES
IMPLICATIONS FOR CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT RESEARCH FACILITIES
-
And I 've got to make 10 of these,to try them SCROG on 1-2 females... :
{ -blue (cools,mainly / but neutrals,also) wls disperse more placed on corner for full & easy coverage
-Red wls are more " direction oriented"...A bit to the center but still as dispersed as possible...
They are the spike ,after all....Far apart....As possible....
-Neutrals(blue-greens( manuf. 'trick'for more lumens)-yellows) running across in the mid zone...
-Warm whites ( orange-red-far red) ,all over...
A beauty....
Oh....
...
Oh...
I wish I had the money to buy ...
-40x630 Osrams...(red dragons )
-100 x Oslons warm whites or Crees...
-40 x cool crees...
- 60 x neutral crees or osrams..
The best bins for my needs....
But...
My budget,allows me more easily to spend approx 120$ for 300 pcs of crappy leds...
(That's what I've paid,before ..)
Manufacturer e-mail me ,telling that the cool whites/neutral ,now they are stronger...
Not much details ,though...
So to continue searching and experimenting :
Total cost :
10 x 20cm x 16 xc x 5 cm alum.heatsink =
150$ all...(no shipping,direct from factory...)
10 pcbs =
50$/shipping included+2x pcb as present...
10 drivers =
100$ (without shipping )
240 leds 1 Watt chip =I ordered 300 pcs=
120$ (shipping included
+50$ custom duty)
+ 70$ for a bit of silver3% solder (lead free ), some tubes of cheap white silicone thermal paste,silicone thermal glue,cables,plugs,rivets,ect...
=
540 $ give or take 20$.....
(sorry,for the earlier mistake...)
For 10 X 22 Watt (approx.) led panels ..
540$ for 200+ Watts...
...
....
Not so bad afterall..
And for the ways chosen....
Ok....
But it's a "hobby",dealing with "fresh" tech...
Has to have a certain price...
For utilising expensive quality leds,I guess I'll have to wait ..
First I have to find what works best and how...
Until then,I'm sure ,they will exist super -efficient leds...
But until ,then,I'll stay with the cheap,crappy ones..
They do the job ,they are asked to,just fine....
(
In fact ,the same ,exact led units (quality)
with the led units many
renown led grow panels have.
(...
Or maybe even better,maybe,cause they are custom ordered,regarding chip selection and phosphor mix-)
And from now on ,I will buy some leds when needed...
For the needs of my experiments....
Now,the brothers of the other group ,just entered flowering...
Vegged under 132 Watt of Astir (Proto-)Type Led grow panels (6x pcs)...
(Slightly different types..But mainly under Warm / Neutral whites......)
No lenses...120°-140°
With not the best arrangement of the illuminairies in available space.....
Maybe a bit far ,also...
Observe carefully...
Thats what can
132 Watt of crappy white (warms -neutrals-cools mix ) leds do ,
pretty easy..
.
If used ,in ..certain and very specific way....
-Imagine what high-quality ones,can do if used,in the same way...-
Now....
Fed from same tank...
Vegged under
400 Watt of HPS (Plps Grn.Pwr )+digital ballast...(Sonlight)
Those...
Different ,in a way....
(All of them are WR...From seed...)
Anyway..
Both are good...
At least....
Flowering ,will reveal its shelf,along with many more answers...
...
As for....
Utilising white leds,....
My own @ss-rabbit hole,shows those
pitiful but enlightful sparks of wisdom,you all see...:
....
No...
For sure no...
...
Cfls' here I come...
No!...
...
What about....:
"HIDs ,here I come.." ..
That's more correct,brothers ...
Ain't, so ?
( And the new buckets ,also seem to be .."fast" enough....He,he,he....)