Astir Grow Led Panel Project...

nedelo

Well-Known Member
thanks sailor .. i will go for some chepos from e bay,
missin is to build one veg early flowering panel for small place.
secon missin will be a 3 flowering panels , 1main top and 2 on side.

And thanks god on this thread .
I will come back when i decided what to buy for yours conclusions ..

Have a nice day and even grater harvest . PEace
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
SDS, if you get those "pink" and "hot whites" made I might be interested in offsetting your cost with the purchase of a few of them. I have yet to find a company that is willing to make a run just for me. I would prefer 3 watt diodes, but using 1 watt leds might work in some cases. Send me the .pdf of the datasheet if you get one.
Brother Hosebomber,some (the pinks ) they are already under production (at 350mA ) ..
We're facing some problems with the " hot whites" (expensive quality uva dies - phosphor blends ) ,but I guess we'll get over them...
Anyway..Yes,of course...Once the leds are ready,I'll let you know ,where exactly you can find them...
........................................................................................
Although ,I think ,that since our "man-ufacturer" can make them with 350mA dies ,can make them also with 700mA dies ..
You'll have to ask them...
From your side ,you 've to find a die,that you prefer....I.e. BXCD5050 or BXCD6060.... )
http://www.bridgelux.com/assets/products_portfolio/BXCD6060_Datasheet_11-1-2011.pdf
http://www.bridgelux.com/assets/products_portfolio/BXCD5050_Datasheet_11-1-2011.pdf
..........
Once delivered ,I'll send you the actual specs...
Our maker (small but trustworthy ) offers,also, a wide selection of led cases / silicones / mirror cups / lenses / ect...
(I'm referring to 8mm " Seoul " format -But I guess ,they can make other formats of leds too...
You,probably, can have them ,presoldered in a (original) coolpad star pcb,as long as you're willing to pay the price...)
In fact ,they can build a really high-quality led ..But it is not going to cost just 0.5$ per led...
(i.e. For pink A+B phosphor blend -just for our specific nitride Intematix phosphors blend ,he asked for +.40$ per led !!! => approx 1$ per led ..
Let alone the better case /mirror cup / silicone /lens....)...
..................
We designed these leds ,but we 've others to make them...
So,our maker can also make them for third parties...
No copyrights ,there...
( Still ,maybe ,there's a bit of 'evolution' needed ,also...
So,the more DIYers ,will use them,the more "evolved" will be ...)
...
Yes...Difficult to have your own leds build...
Depends ,on the "relationship" build between ...
(For big brand names ,you can just forget it ...To have Cree or Osram build your own leds ..Probably one needs a lot of $$$$$$ .
From the other point ,plenty of asian small companies will do it ,since / if you are a regular customer...
But then ,picking the " right" one ,is of a crucial importance...Luckily ,they are not all of them cheaters... )
 

locoezon

Active Member
Report of UNICEF makes reason for 439.000 children infantile, but also school age that be undernourished.The elements, that it brings in the publicity ΑΠΕ-ΜΠΕ, show that the suicides or the attempts amounted space of crisis, that is to say,from 1/1/2009 until 23/08/2012 in 3.124 Pan-Hellenic…

Imagine somebodies from those that committed suicide or parents that their children starve they had preferred some form revenge to those that brought to them in this situation!

Greece believed that it was a intelligent cat and that it could play with her almighty partners in the EU were idiot mice (“new riches”). And became many from many foolish and absurd at influx and continuation.

Now they rather play – litteraly and enjoyably for them with the crafty mouse, after first they reached him in situation of absolute seediness. A transport of picture could be a bullfight. When the bull they have brought him in situation of complete collapse so that continues the ritual and inhuman murder.Only that Greece did not exist – never bull.

After discussions lasting several months,negotiations, promises, threats, hopes on salvation, impasses and “solutions”, compromises,we reached here that we reached.
The 439.000 children infantile, but also school age that be undernourished are one indicative what's going on in the country.
The suicides and the attempts that amounted space of crisis, that is to say, from 1/1/2009 until 23/08/2012 in 3.124 Pan-Hellenic.

Naturally, this elements are official. Rather the real elements are much higher.
The formation that controls the country represented from a head in really tragic and pitiful place – only in ancient Greek tragedies and in tragedies of Shakespear they can they meet so much horrible situations despair- he has remained speechless and paralytic. The with deficit in faculties Greek politicians – we speak for the all setting trying they will improvize splay and make patents in order to they save the country from the chaos in that they reached him.


The laws of country prevent the law, the freedoms destroy to us each freedom, the creations of fortunes are based on organised robbery - as and this survival of state, the knowledge is provided by inexperienced or botchery idiots, our ethics is a impudent hypocrisy, our force is practised by weaklings and what considers honorary for us is false in all the points.
The system tolerates the church – what could acts exceptionally dynamically, but her most combative representatives or deals, the hour where children be hungry also other commit suicide, with sexual subjects and secret companies, or with processes of personal enrichment only because, and with the condition, that declare subjugation in the state as are organised (declaration the notorious wish “in favour all beginning and power”).

The resistance toward poverty is resistance toward the vulgar wealth of somebodies and it is considered by the system as anarchy that should it is punished. Thus this attitude achieves it makes coward and unscrupulous consider hero.

In little time a lot of world will realise that it will be supposed it acquires money because without this it cannot exist – it survives. The money is the most important thing in the world. And this because the money is the means that allows is distributed rightly the possibility of survival. This awareness will involve the bad fruits of poverty.

The politicians if they wanted honour their own would be supposed first to think honour of country.Obviously however them it does not interest neither the one neither the other. The what it interests them it is acquaintance.

The system that prevails, and is cultivated methodically, is that exist the riches because they exist poor and opposite (exist poor because exist riches).
What means however what they seek the (local and foreigners) politically idiotic: “bourgeoes they are poor”?
It means for the citizens: Be impotent, they area ignorant, they are cells of morbid situations, it is a example of seediness and ugliness, they have rickety children, sold out for nothing, they live in dens without electricity and water, owe what would not be supposed to owe, to become coward and without ideally – in order that finally them they deserve still less from what they have. That is to say do not belong to them the right and the disposal live. Therefore the 3.124 suicides!

The bigger crime is poverty.

The safety - the bigger good of culture cannot exists there where the worse danger, the danger of poverty, is pending in the head of many and when the protection, that is supposed that is offered, is offered only in anything enclaves poor or makes poverty still bigger and for still more.

The ardently expected transfusion of life rather will become. No because want the partners they make him, but because they are forced him to make.Greece and their Greeks they hate. And us hate because we are those that are. In the substance they hate the mentality that us possesses in its entirety us and same those that control the country – the Opposition is not excluded.
What can constitute a starting line for one different tomorrow is a “shift consolidating, for a lot of years,mentality of total”. If this does become, when?how? from who? it is a boiling hot question.


Up to then the life in the country will be a hell that will always become villain.
That we will take the dose they are not nothing other than the plug of hole provisionally.



Δεν προσκύνησα ποτέ κανένα μα ούτε και χρεώθηκα
λόγο θα δώσω στον θεό όχι σε εσένα τα πάθη σου φορτώθηκα
[video=youtube;wR-5y50_-s0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR-5y50_-s0[/video]
 
Made a first plunge into my LED lamp construction: ordered 24 Cree xb-d warm whites, 8 neutrals (4500K), 8 cool whites (7500K, I think). now to get my hands on some reds. I almost feel like I know what I'm doing.
 
First of all, I would like to thank stardustsailor, ganja 2, guod and everybody else who was kind to provide everyone lots of usefull information and marvelous photos with growing under LED.
Just finished reading this thread, had a wonderfull time, and I have two major questions which are bothering me:
1) how far away from one LED center to another should i place my LEDs? Is 4cm apart is too far away?
2) what do you guys think of 8:5:3 (WW:CW:630) ratio with 2 - 3 panels in 40x40cm area for 1 - 2 plants? Would like to use it from seed to harvest. Maybe add some more red during flowering with additional 10V driver(s). I think of using MeanWell 350mA drivers which are available to me in 10V, 36V and 48V.

I know I'm a newbie here, but would greatly appreciate any advice you guys could give me!
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
First of all, I would like to thank stardustsailor, ganja 2, guod and everybody else who was kind to provide everyone lots of usefull information and marvelous photos with growing under LED.
Just finished reading this thread, had a wonderfull time, and I have two major questions which are bothering me:
1) how far away from one LED center to another should i place my LEDs? Is 4cm apart is too far away?
2) what do you guys think of 8:5:3 (WW:CW:630) ratio with 2 - 3 panels in 40x40cm area for 1 - 2 plants? Would like to use it from seed to harvest. Maybe add some more red during flowering with additional 10V driver(s). I think of using MeanWell 350mA drivers which are available to me in 10V, 36V and 48V.

I know I'm a newbie here, but would greatly appreciate any advice you guys could give me!
1) 4cm is ok ..(EU ? ) ...(though it depends from led power,pcb thickness,heatsink area & base thickness ,passive or active cooling method,ect)
2) I would 've made it 8:4:4=> (WW:CW:630) . 2 - 3 panels(x 15-16 Watts ) in 40x40cm area for 1 - 2 plants ? Seems ok ...
A bit more wouldn't be bad.....Good for small sized Autos, though... 12 x 3.5 V= 42 V + 4 x 2.5 V = 10 V => 52 V at 350mA ...
With these drivers you can split the reds (10 V ) on one driver and the whites(42 V ) on another ( 48 V ).....
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
....Terrible and wonderful is the Mystery thereof, O thou Titan that hast climbed into the bed of Juno!
Surely thou art bound unto, and broken upon, the wheel; yet hast thou uncovered the nakedness of the Holy One,
and the Queen of Heaven is in travail of child,
and his name shall be called Vir, and Vis, and Virus, and Virtus, and Viridis,
in one name that is all these, and above all these
...
Biskra, Algeria.
December 16, 1909. 9 - 10:30 a.m.
Aleister Crowley

[video=youtube;1q97XUgGON4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q97XUgGON4[/video]
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Legend : Warm colours =>more red+blue absorbed & more Far red reflected =>higher photosynthesis rates(max=yellow ) .
Cooler colours =>more wls are present { max of wls =total blue }=>lower PS rates / no PS .
Black pointer =sunlight direction {approx }



jasmine & rose ps rates nir.jpg(
Morning sunlight at balcony ...
Canopies are more active ,to the side that sunlight falls ...
Notice low at right ,the small roses doesn't show any PS activity...
Also notice ,the small new leaves ,how active they are...
Soon ,to defend themshelves for the rest of the day,among others...
But,that's life...C'est la vie....


field NIR PS rates.jpg
Open field .Almost Noon ( 12:00 am ) .
Grass is by far the " PS champ "...
Small,but really hard worker,under constant strong sunlight...
Mainly buildin' a massive and thick root " layer"....
No matter what happens .." above "...It will always survive....
" indestructible "....
........
Some bushes also ,are good workers there....
While the trees....
Slow 'n'easy....Plenty of foliage...
" Why hurry ?*** ...Massive by time*** ....If u know what I mean ...***

By using this unique property of plants, plus our ability to take near-infrared photos we can create composite images which highlight where plants are and how much they are photosynthesizing.
http://publiclaboratory.org/tool/near-infrared-cam



*** [video=youtube;2cm-ZjYM00g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cm-ZjYM00g[/video] ***




Hey...Something is not right here ...Or is it made of plastic ?
..somethin' is made of plastic there ....JPG.....Red=where plants are and photosynthesizing..
Green = something green...
 
1) 4cm is ok ..(EU ? ) ...(though it depends from led power,pcb thickness,heatsink area & base thickness ,passive or active cooling method,ect)
2) I would 've made it 8:4:4=> (WW:CW:630) . 2 - 3 panels(x 15-16 Watts ) in 40x40cm area for 1 - 2 plants ? Seems ok ...
A bit more wouldn't be bad.....Good for small sized Autos, though... 12 x 3.5 V= 42 V + 4 x 2.5 V = 10 V => 52 V at 350mA ...
With these drivers you can split the reds (10 V ) on one driver and the whites(42 V ) on another ( 48 V ).....
Thank you, stardustsailor!

What about the chinese satisled 75V drivers @350mA? Are they trustworthy? Because I might swap MeanWell for them to use 2 x 24 LED panels instead of 3 x 16 panels for one female. I Think it would be better for her... (?) ...

oh! forgot to mention that I'll be using cheep chinese 1W LEDs.
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
About a year after the launch of the first Landsat satellite in 1972, scientists began using the data from its sensors to estimate the productivity of vegetation by comparing the amount of red light reflected (there is not much from healthy plants) to the amount of near infrared light reflected (there is a lot). The amount of infrared light reflected from vegetation is a good indicator of how bright the sunlight was at any moment (leaves reflect all IR), and comparing that to the amount of reflected red light can tell us what proportion of the sunlight was being absorbed by the plants.


Figure 2. The equation for computing NDVI, the Normalized Difference Vegetation Index.


That relationship is a good measure of the amount of photosynthetically active biomass. They quickly settled on an index of plant productivity called NDVI for Normalized Difference Vegetation Index. Instead of just using the difference between the amounts of red and near infrared light, they normalized that difference by dividing it by the total amount of red plus infrared light (Figure 2). That allowed the index from different areas and different times of the day or year to be compared with each other.
http://www.publiclaboratory.org/wiki/ndvi-plots-ir-camera-kit

NDVI / NRG( NIR+Red+Green)** combined pics :

NRG 1.jpgnrg 2.jpg

**
Red chanel : NIR reflected (not just white in B/W image of plain NDVI )
Green Chanel : NIR +Red reflected (not just red as in plain NRG )
Blue channel : Green reflected

How it works :
One shoot of the scene is shot at visible plus NIR ,(customised IR camera without any filter ..)
one another shot at NIR only (<=...plastic filter cap (dark purple) from a remote contol used to cut visible light ) ..

The "visible + Nir" photo then duplicated.

The first of the two duplicates , becomes a B/W (black'n'white ) pic with a red filtering (red wls pass as white light in processed B/W pic ) .
This is the "indicator layer " of how much red is reflected,from plant .The brighter ,the more reds are reflected.
This layer becomes the green chanel of final NDVI / NRG pic .(so you see reds as greens/yellows .....)

The second duplicate layer becomes another one B/W pic with a green filtering (green wls pass as white light in processed B/W pic ) .
This is the "indicator layer " of how much green is reflected,from plant .The brighter ,the more green wls are reflected.
This layer becomes the blue chanel of final NDVI / NRG pic .(so you see greens as blues .....)

The "only NIR " photo stays as is (colour photo) and becomes the red chanel of final NDVI / NRG pic.
(so you see FR/NIR as reds ... )

In final NDVI / NRG combined pic , the red colour is the reflected FR/NIR from plants....
If green is shown ,something red is there...(that is not photosynthesizing )
If blue is shown ,something green is there ..(that is not photosynthesizing) ..

-In plain NRG images ,all colors are as in reality(greens are greens ,blues are blues ,yellows are yellows ,ect ) ,
except reds which are FR/NIR ...And 'real' reds which are more ambers/yellows ....

-In plain NDVI images ,(which are always B/W or monochromatic ,as being ,in fact a 'photo imaged' ratio .... ) ,
the ' light '(white ) is " FR/NIR - Reds " reflected , while the 'shadows (blacks )are "FR/NIR + Reds ",reflected...
..plain NDVI=> ..

plain NDVI.jpg
Blue=FRL - RL ..(Reflected to camera => red is absorbed )
Black = FR + R
(Reflected to camera )

Or with better IR cut filter (better "grade " reflectance analysis ,but worse pic quality )
..

under 10 10 panel ...jpg

The yellow area (maximal red wls absorbtion ,max FR/NIR reflectance/emission ),is exactly
under the panel of 10x CW ,10 x 630 nm ,2 x WW & 2x UVA/Violet....
Hmmmm...Although yellow,might mean " overloaded " photosynthetic systems....
Leaves ,under those panels seem of a deep green /bluish -kinda color...
Kinda under stress....
We've got some protective anthocyanins production there ,maybe ?
Weird...
 

ganja 2

Active Member






I havent told too much till now...i let the fotos speaking for me..!
I am a grower for many years and i always try for the best result..
With ASTIR searches and your support i believe that we can reset our standars at higher levels..!!!
There will be a lot of improvements at recent times but we have already got much better results
Peace 2 all..
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Yeap!
...
I guess we 've some more crazy ideas of ours comin', huh ?


:eyesmoke:;-)......

....

:dunce:...Ohhh..
Dunno...
1 Watters ?
Cheapos ?
Whites ?
Maybe we need those really red ones ,eh Ganja ?
What da ya say ?
Or maybe we need those lenses to make them ,not to loose light at the sides.. ?
Ahh,yeah ..And better drivers too....
Shitty,crappy,panels...
Just six ,ungly & expensive alum chunks , you 've yourshelf there...

135 unefficient Watts,wasted totally....
I feel sorry for you,my brother Ganja....
.....
:P
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Hi people :-? , got one question do you put thermo pasta under led on pcb?
Always something ( thermal : pad/ paste / glue )has to be ,between metal surfaces ,that dissipate/exchange /conduct heat ,between them....
Not any air ,in between , at all .... Those invisible to naked eye ,air "pockets " ,of metal surfaces....
Always!!!
 
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