Atheism Anyone?

L

Los Muertos

Active Member
As an Athesit myself, I'm curious how many others are.
Basically my beliefs are - you're here, you're not..that's it. Like a fart and no more significant than one. I understand that some people find comfort and purpose in religion, I just think that you're not getting the most out of life if you never stop to consider other possibilities. A whole new world opened up for me as soon as I wasn't tethered by religion anymore. I felt a connection with the earth that I was never able to achive through "worship" because I no longer felt superior to other beings. I believe that we're all a part of a natural process that is no less remarkable than the concept of creation. WHY(?) isn't important to me. Any other thoughts/opinions?
 
sync0s

sync0s

Well-Known Member
Los Muertos said:
As an Athesit myself, I'm curious how many others are.
Basically my beliefs are - you're here, you're not..that's it. Like a fart and no more significant than one. I understand that some people find comfort and purpose in religion, I just think that you're not getting the most out of life if you never stop to consider other possibilities. A whole new world opened up for me as soon as I wasn't tethered by religion anymore. I felt a connection with the earth that I was never able to achive through "worship" because I no longer felt superior to other beings. I believe that we're all a part of a natural process that is no less remarkable than the concept of creation. WHY(?) isn't important to me. Any other thoughts/opinions?
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I'm with you. Some people have said that when you are atheist you have little or no morals but I greatly disagree. When you come upon the conclusion that this life is all you have, you gain the desire to improve it not only for yourself but for everyone around you. At least as far as I'm concerned. If you believe in a higher power that created everything we know that's fine, but you need to at the very least acknowledge the fact that it's not the end of the line. A paradigm still exists in the fact that something had to create that higher power, and something created that, and so on. Never ending circles that we always pursue, yet we laugh at dogs and cats when they chase their own tails....
 
karri0n

karri0n

Well-Known Member
Los Muertos said:
I felt a connection with the earth that I was never able to achive through "worship" because I no longer felt superior to other beings.
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FYI, There are religions completely based on the connection to the earth that you feel(Pretty much any pagan religion). People who ascribe to them don't think they are superior to anything Mother Nature creates.
 
R

Runbyhemp

Member
Atheist here too. I believe organized religion was invented as a means to control the masses. I can't understand why people fear there being nothing when we die, when you're dead you won't have to worry about it.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Los Muertos said:
As an Atheist myself, I'm curious how many others are.
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the more interesting question and the more telling would be why we choose atheism. the rational atheist must realize just how irrational it is to baldly claim "there is no god" in the face of overwhelming consensus. more often than not it is a case such as your own, a rebellion against our upbringing and against the societal norm. we may surround ourselves with a nearly unassailable wall of reason, but the heart of our disbelief remains emotional. it is the authoritarian mythologies built up around the central creator myth that we most object to, a visceral reaction to blatant attempts at control.
 
L

Los Muertos

Active Member
karri0n said:
FYI, There are religions completely based on the connection to the earth that you feel(Pretty much any pagan religion). People who ascribe to them don't think they are superior to anything Mother Nature creates.
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Absolutely. I certainly didn't mean to imply that all religions encourage that attitude.
 
guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
the more interesting question and the more telling would be why we choose atheism. the rational atheist must realize just how irrational it is to baldly claim "there is no god" in the face of overwhelming consensus. more often than not it is a case such as your own, a rebellion against our upbringing and against the societal norm. we may surround ourselves with a nearly unassailable wall of reason, but the heart of our disbelief remains emotional. it is the authoritarian mythologies built up around the central creator myth that we most object to, a visceral reaction to blatant attempts at control.
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50 million elvis fans can't be wrong. clearly irrational to come to any conclusion that isn't shared with most of the population.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
guy incognito said:
clearly irrational to come to any conclusion that isn't shared with most of the population.
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without conclusive evidence, all we have is consensus. this doesn't mean that consensus is correct, but that any other conclusion is no more valid than tradition. it is still little more than uninformed opinion. when such an overwhelming majority is so convinced of these mythologies, one must wonder if there are some truths hidden behind it all. not necessarily the TRUTH they embrace, but some truth nonetheless.

doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Los Muertos said:
Yeah, I consider my beliefs to be rooted more in scientific than emotional reasons.
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upon just what "scientific evidence" have you based the conclusion that there is no god? i can understand that a great deal of religious doctrine may be refuted through the application of scientific methodology, but how does one prove that there is no god? just as a man, consigned to the furthest depths of some dark cavern, may may find it impossible to accept the existence of a warming sun hanging in the sky, so too might it be said that the limitations of our humanity make it impossible for to recognize the existence of a creature capable of creating that sun and everything else from nothingness. the truly rational mind must admit the limitations of human reason and understanding. in so doing we must also admit that everything which is beyond our understanding is possible. skepticism and doubt are understandable and can even be considered a necessary component of the rational mind, but the certainty of atheism falls into the realm of faith and leaves reason behind.
 
guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
upon just what "scientific evidence" have you based the conclusion that there is no god? i can understand that a great deal of religious doctrine may be refuted through the application of scientific methodology, but how does one prove that there is no god? just as a man, consigned to the furthest depths of some dark cavern, may may find it impossible to accept the existence of a warming sun hanging in the sky, so too might it be said that the limitations of our humanity make it impossible for to recognize the existence of a creature capable of creating that sun and everything else from nothingness. the truly rational mind must admit the limitations of human reason and understanding. in so doing we must also admit that everything which is beyond our understanding is possible. skepticism and doubt are understandable and can even be considered a necessary component of the rational mind, but the certainty of atheism falls into the realm of faith and leaves reason behind.
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Suppose I give you a book that details the existence of a fictional god that I make up. I make him up, and every detail that goes into the book. I then give you the book and tell you it's real. You read the book and notice not a single thing in it can be verified or used as positive evidence of this gods existence. Not only can none of it be used for his existence, but the book is rife with not only contradictions of itself, but with other things you KNOW to be false.

Just how unreasonable would it be to conclude that the work is entirely fiction and that god doesn't exist?
 
soul11223

soul11223

Active Member
Right here Atheist how could anyone believe in the invisible man in the sky with all the science out there and the only proof they have is faith.
 
L

Los Muertos

Active Member
undertheice said:
upon just what "scientific evidence" have you based the conclusion that there is no god? i can understand that a great deal of religious doctrine may be refuted through the application of scientific methodology, but how does one prove that there is no god? just as a man, consigned to the furthest depths of some dark cavern, may may find it impossible to accept the existence of a warming sun hanging in the sky, so too might it be said that the limitations of our humanity make it impossible for to recognize the existence of a creature capable of creating that sun and everything else from nothingness. the truly rational mind must admit the limitations of human reason and understanding. in so doing we must also admit that everything which is beyond our understanding is possible. skepticism and doubt are understandable and can even be considered a necessary component of the rational mind, but the certainty of atheism falls into the realm of faith and leaves reason behind.
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I think maybe that was taken the wrong way. I never said there was scientific "proof", but you can have plenty of evidence without ever actually proving anything. Evidence is only enough for a theory which is exactly what religion is...nothing more. I'll be the first to admit that I might be wrong, but would someone on the other side ever do the same thing? Doubt it. Based on that, which is the "truly rational" mind. Refusing to admit that it's even remotely possible that you could be wrong about something based on a theory doesn't sound rational to me.
 
BendBrewer

BendBrewer

Well-Known Member
Any of you have time for a quick read? It's one of my favorite chapters of any book. Short and sweet.

http://dkeenan.com/PageiteWars.htm

[FONT=New York,Times New Roman]You are creatures of light, we read. From light have you come, in light shall you go, and surrounding you through every step is the light of your infinite being.
[/FONT][FONT=New York,Times New Roman]She turned a page.............[/FONT]

[FONT=New York,Times New Roman]The old man sighed his relief. "What a blessed evening!" he said. "How rarely are we given the chance to save the world from a new religion!"[/FONT]
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undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
guy incognito said:
Suppose I give you a book that details the existence of a fictional god that I make up. I make him up, and every detail that goes into the book. I then give you the book and tell you it's real. You read the book and notice not a single thing in it can be verified or used as positive evidence of this gods existence. Not only can none of it be used for his existence, but the book is rife with not only contradictions of itself, but with other things you KNOW to be false.

Just how unreasonable would it be to conclude that the work is entirely fiction and that god doesn't exist?
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why do you find it so hard to separate that original myth of a creator from the surrounding mythologies that go into creating a religion? you have provided a rudimentary example of the reasoning behind the skeptical view of religion, nothing more. you haven't touched on the concept of the universal god myth and the reasoning behind it, but i'll play along since you bothered to ask.

the first question to ask is the origin of the writings you are presenting to me. where are they from, by whom were they written and how did you acquire them, with all of your answers balanced against my own judgment concerning your intentions. without any direct evidence of your claims, my next step would be to seek out the opinions of others. though their opinions would be just as subjective as mine, a wider range of experience allows a better understanding and someone else might have an insight that i lack. my final test would be the ultimate in subjectivity, how relevant the message is to my life and the cost of altering my world view. if i felt that conversion might provide some benefit to myself or to society in general or that it fulfilled some need, i might even consider joining your little cult and try believing in your deity. at this point in my life i doubt i could make such a change, but it is possible to teach an old dog new tricks.

now let's compare your imaginary book to the sacred texts that really do exist and upon which the world's religions have been based. the first thing you'll notice is that our gods are seldom defined. popular culture has sought to describe these deities throughout history, but the writings themselves merely describe the powers they wield and the demands they make on their people. these are books of regulation and philosophy, not mere descriptive narratives. they are seldom the product of one author, but are more often than not the recreation of oral traditions. they are designed to create a way of life, the impetus for which is the perceived desire of this pervasive god myth, and not to define the force whose existence is nearly taken for granted. the identities of their authors are mostly lost in the mists of time, as are their true intentions.

the greatest flaw in your little scenario, aside from the fact that you've missed the point entirely, is that you've asked me what my reaction would be. i am someone whose world view has been purposefully constructed over the last fifty plus years to suit a rather perverse personality and who has a deep and abiding hatred of the god myth in all of its various forms, most specifically the christian version that i grew up surrounded by. what someone unaffected by the influences of this society, as a child or a primitive, would do is anyone's guess.
 
del66666

del66666

Well-Known Member
i have never ever and never will believe in religion.....................thank god...............
 
L

Los Muertos

Active Member
undertheice said:
why do you find it so hard to separate that original myth of a creator from the surrounding mythologies that go into creating a religion? you have provided a rudimentary example of the reasoning behind the skeptical view of religion, nothing more. you haven't touched on the concept of the universal god myth and the reasoning behind it, but i'll play along since you bothered to ask.

the first question to ask is the origin of the writings you are presenting to me. where are they from, by whom were they written and how did you acquire them, with all of your answers balanced against my own judgment concerning your intentions. without any direct evidence of your claims, my next step would be to seek out the opinions of others. though their opinions would be just as subjective as mine, a wider range of experience allows a better understanding and someone else might have an insight that i lack. my final test would be the ultimate in subjectivity, how relevant the message is to my life and the cost of altering my world view. if i felt that conversion might provide some benefit to myself or to society in general or that it fulfilled some need, i might even consider joining your little cult and try believing in your deity. at this point in my life i doubt i could make such a change, but it is possible to teach an old dog new tricks.

now let's compare your imaginary book to the sacred texts that really do exist and upon which the world's religions have been based. the first thing you'll notice is that our gods are seldom defined. popular culture has sought to describe these deities throughout history, but the writings themselves merely describe the powers they wield and the demands they make on their people. these are books of regulation and philosophy, not mere descriptive narratives. they are seldom the product of one author, but are more often than not the recreation of oral traditions. they are designed to create a way of life, the impetus for which is the perceived desire of this pervasive god myth, and not to define the force whose existence is nearly taken for granted. the identities of their authors are mostly lost in the mists of time, as are their true intentions.

the greatest flaw in your little scenario, aside from the fact that you've missed the point entirely, is that you've asked me what my reaction would be. i am someone whose world view has been purposefully constructed over the last fifty plus years to suit a rather perverse personality and who has a deep and abiding hatred of the god myth in all of its various forms, most specifically the christian version that i grew up surrounded by. what someone unaffected by the influences of this society, as a child or a primitive, would do is anyone's guess.
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Could I get some dressing on that greek salad? lol I'm just kidding. :peace:
 
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