ATTENTION: Irish "Tomato" Growers!

PayDirt

Member
Hello Irish “Tomato” Growers,




I'm sure this is the weirdest post ever proffered on this forum... but I'm hoping enough people will read it that I can scrounge up sufficient interest to make my experiment viable.


First off, allow me to introduce myself: I'm neither a “tomato” grower, nor a “tomato” smoker... in fact I'm a non-drinking, non-smoking science nerd who refrains from all forms of recreational drugs. I doubt I'd have much in common with any member of this forum.


However, we do enjoy somewhat overlapping interests... one of my hobbies is an interest in biologically-active and specially engineered anthropogenic soils.






Last summer I splashed out on a stock of ingredients and brewed up a batch of rhizobacteria-enriched biologically-activated soil. But lacking even one green thumb (I couldn't keep a mold alive), I decided to shared out my soil samples among the neighbouhood gardening enthusiasts.


Well it seems this latest tweaked recipe exceeded even my expectations: huge, virulent plants/flowers/vegetables; exceptionally high biomass yields and several of the greenhouse-grown varieties reached maturity months ahead of schedule (despite the late frosts).


Unfortunately, none of my neighbours had the prescience to grow a control batch in regular garden soil for comparison... and I negected to request they do so. This oversight means I have no comparative measure of the soils fertility.






This year I had hoped to recruit help for a rerun of the experiment among some of the amateur gardening/allotment groups in and around Dublin... but I've found these guys to be... well, very amateur indeed. Their dithering means its now too late in the season to plant outdoors.




So a (stoner) friend recommended I make contact with the burgeoning community of home-grow “tomato” enthusiasts, and here I am.






Realising that most successful regular “tomato” growers are somewhat secretive and cautious for legal considerations, I should probably offer the incentive of explaining exacty what benefits anthropogenic biologcally-enriched soils offer the amateur gardener:


...markedly increased growth rates (more crops per year for the indoor grower)


...shorter seed-to-maturity times (the high biological availability of nutrients increases plant BMR: basal metabolic rate)


...significantly higher biomass yields (bigger, healthier, more resilient plants): 30% extra growth is not uncommon


...exceptional phytochemical yields: especially as it relates to the more complex phytochemicals such as lycopene yields in regular tomatoes. Presumably the same applies to the various cannibinoids (THC; CBD; CBN; THVC; CBC and CBL) found in other “tomatoes”.
Organic crops grown with a suitably tailored engineered soil often boast many, many times the phytochemical yield of similar intensively grown (fertiliser) crops, sometimes twenty or more times the regular, conventional yield. Although I do not know what effect (if any) this increased yield might have on the ratio of cannibinoids.




The particular soil recipe I have devised (which I've comically nicknamed “Paydirt”) should have such myriad benefits for the amateur “tomato” grower: as it offers the seedlings many times the normal level of soil nutrients WITHOUT the threat of “nutrient burn” (there is no fertiliser added to my soil).




Interested?




What I need are a few volunteers willing to grow one or two plants in my “Paydirt” soil alongside their regular crop (which then becomes the de-facto control group I need for comparison), so long as those volunteers meet certain specific requirements:


1- GROWER COMPETENCE
REGULAR GROWERS ONLY! Only consistent growers who are both REGIMENTED and COMPETENT with a good reputation


2- COMPARITIVE CROPS
Plants grown in my “Paydirt” soil must be part of a larger regular crop (two of a crop of ten plants for example) for statistical comparison


3- PLANT ISOLATION
ALL plants must be grown in separate pots (to avoid cross-contamination that might pollute the rhizobacteria cultures)


4- ATTENTION TO DETAIL
Volunteers must be willing to follow the EXACT planting instructions supplied with the “Paydirt” soil

5- UNIFORM CONDITIONS
Volunteers must water; feed and sun ALL plants (both their reglar crop and the plants grown in my soil) using identical protocols


6- ACTIVE INGREDIENT YIELD COMPARISONS
The plants must be harvested and processed separately: for comparison of the active ingredient yields (ie: please prepare samples from both crops and report back on separate “Toke Tests”)


7- REPORTING
Volunteers must be prepared to report back their progress at regular intervals (after the first month; at maturity and after harvesting). This can be done via this thread: posted progress photos would suffice, weighing of plants or calculation of biomass is not necessary. However a final ounce tally would be helpful.


8- UNIFORM NUTRIENT DOSING
Organic growers preferred, but not required (once the same nutrient dose is used for all plants)




Other than that, I dont mind which specific techniques you use (I'm not a gardener myself), so long as ALL the plants are exposed to identical conditions then the comparison with the regular crop remains valid. That being said, once the plants grown in the “Paydirt” soil exceed the size of the regular crop they may require more water (but not more nutrients).






If this sounds like something you might be interested in then please feel free to contact me via this email address: paydirt-at-hush mail.com


I realise that this particular situation requires a modicum of discretion and I will endeavour to keep everything completely anonymous (hence the cheesey username). I won't answer any pms sent through the forum, (which may be subject to surveillence) and would prefer NOT to meet any of the volunteers in person, nor know any personal details of any volunteer. Please keep this in mind.


Samples will be delivered by means of a drop-off-and-collect arrangement.






Please also be aware that pragmatism must also impose its own restrictions. For example: I live in the Dublin area and simply can't travel huge distances to deliver samples.


Other than that my only caveat would be: NO TIMEWASTERS PLEASE!

Despite the fact that I'll be eating the cost of the ingredients for the sake of this little experiment, please consider that brewing a batch of biologically enriched soil is both a costly and labour intensive process: last years batch took two weeks to process and cost me 125 EURO PER PLANTING BAG (small bag). I dont mind being a grand down (I have enough ingredients to make eleven or so tree-bags) if I get some useable data... but I don't want to be dicked about.​


Sincerely,
-PayDirt (not my real name)


PS: I'm not online very often, but if I've placed this thead in the wrong forum or broken any forum rules with this proposal then I'll abide by any actions taken by the moderators. I'll also attempt to answer any questions raised in this thread if forum members can be patient with me (bit of a technophobe).
 

PayDirt

Member
I'm just going to give this thread a quick bump (hope that's not frowned upon).

Can't believe there's been so many views without any replies... not even a question; not even a sarcastic comment.

Maybe that's what happens when you post on April 20th (4-20) everyones too baked to read.


-PayDirt
 

Montykoolaid

Well-Known Member
Maybe its the "tomatoes" but your post gives me an uneasy feeling. Its quite possible your being completely truthful, but what your proposing is against pretty much every feeling I have.

Also, I don't live in Ireland.

Sorry :joint:
 

PayDirt

Member
Maybe its the "tomatoes" but your post gives me an uneasy feeling. Its quite possible your being completely truthful, but what your proposing is against pretty much every feeling I have.

Also, I don't live in Ireland.

Sorry :joint:
Montykoolaid,

Should I change the thread title...?

I don't really care what you guys are growing, I just want to get a good comparative test of my latest soil recipe without having to grow anything myself (ironically I hate everything to do with gardening despite my interest in soils).

It's a bit late in the year to plant and I don't have any indoor growing facilities myself. So rather than wait another season, a friend recommended I contact some of you indoor growers.

Honestly, I thought more people would be interested and it would be a bit of fun.



Eventually I'd like to market this specialist soil to gardening enthusiasts who grow competiton plants (champion roses etc) as a sort of side business. As in my exprience their botanical/horticultural expertise is coupled with a very poor grasp of soil engineering. That, and the competition gardeners I know tend to have more money than sense (my soil is too expensive to be viable as a regular commercial product).

Thought this might be a good method of gathering comparative data... I mean, it's 250 euros worth of bacteria activated soil for the asking (so long as you report back your results).

From what I read on this form it seems no one has any experience with such a rich substrate.


But thanks for the response... I take your point.

-PayDirt
 

gogrow

confused
i dont know whether to call this spam or not..:confused:.. but it does sound kinda shady.... sounds like a big sales pitch...
 

cain129

Well-Known Member
You should try the experiment yourself. If
I was in Dublin I would get some for my own experiment. Send a free sample to the GreenHouse and maybe Arjan will start marketing your product.
 

easygrinder

New Member
so your looking for guinea pigs, you have no greenthumb, no comparative tests, and you've come on to a grow forum offering the universe. Hoping that your going to get someone foolish enough to give you a chance.

Good luck with that.

Why did you decide to come to a marijuana grow forum and not a tomato growing forum or some other forum, that seems the better way of marketing it.

All you have succeeding in doing is to completely put off anyone with a braincell, it's either a sales pitch, a scam or a narc.

either way, i got no time for it.
 
Why did you decide to come to a marijuana grow forum and not a tomato growing forum
good point, i mean fair enough if this soil is the shit but why choose a weed to grow in it nevermind one that is illegal, tomatos would be alot more ideal and it would save u trying to convince people whom are probably a bit paranoid about the whole thing anyway, i doupt anyone is going to take u up on ure offer.
But good luck dude :joint::hump:
 

Montykoolaid

Well-Known Member
You misunderstand.

You seem to have used the word "tomato" as a euphemism for marijuana. I just made the observation that your thread made me uneasy and it was possibly because I had smoked marijuana. It was just a joke though.

It is you that makes me uneasy.
 

PayDirt

Member
Some good input guys, much appreciated thanks.

The friend who recommended I post this appeal on this sort of forum did indeed warn me that it would probably be viewed with wry suspicion. He commented that even interested amateur or semi-pro growers would decline for fear that this was some sort of elaborate police sting operation. Seems he was right.


But that's okay. This was a last ditch effort anyway (outdoor planting season is over).


I don't understand the sales pitch criticisms though... Im not looking to charge anyone.

Besides, at 115 euro per bag this isnt a viable mass market product to begin with. That's a hundred times more than you'd harvest growing actual tomatoes and more than you guys yield per plant even with your illicit crop (you'd need one bag per plant).

If I could market it, I'd go for those weird champion plant growers (best-in-show vegetables and bes-in-show roses etc), I know a few and they spare no expense to get a leg up on the competition (weirdos). Although my brother reckons there is a viable market in pharmaceutical botanics (growing exotic plants indoors for phytochemical research).


But yeah, I get the point... reading my post back to myself considering a strangers viewpoint it does seem a little suspicious. Sorry about that.

Maybe there is someone trustworthy/respected on the forum that you guys could nominate (assuming only Irish growers are responding) and I'll get a couple of bags to him/her?


-PayDirt
 

Treeth

Well-Known Member
Wow... I hope you've at least gotten a pm from someone...

This is the right community to go at...

And I know that many here prefer soil...

Try posting in the specialty forums, like organics. Those are the guys always experimenting with different crazy additives, and they're more likely to be soil as well.
 

Cuttings2Colas

Active Member
I'm right there with ya, man... sounds like you've got a great product, and you'd like to do a controlled experiment. Unfortunately, I haven't grown anything yet either. I've been working on an LED lighting system that actually gives the plant the light it wants (https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/186051-my-lighting-project-will-custom.html). Lucky for me, I live in California... a long-time friend is starting his first garden, and I'm helping him.

You need to smoke some weed to meet some growers... Just a thought. (Be careful not to come at anyone with a sales pitch)
 

SummertimeBuddha

Active Member
It seems that marijuana is the wrong plant for you to ask others to grow. it is simply too dangerous to grow for an anonymous source.

The number one rule of growing, don't tell anyone =/

You may want to talk with some real tomato growers, its a lot safer. Unless you're a cop...

btw your writing is immaculate.
 

PayDirt

Member
It seems that marijuana is the wrong plant for you to ask others to grow. it is simply too dangerous to grow for an anonymous source.

The number one rule of growing, don't tell anyone =/

You may want to talk with some real tomato growers, its a lot safer. Unless you're a cop....
...contrary to the opinions of some on this forum, there are no specialist indoor tomato growing groups (or forums) here in Ireland. Also, it's now long past planting time for an outdoor grow.

But it seems I'm on the right track here. I have two growers interested already.


As to the possibility that collecting a soil sample dropped off by an anonymous person you've never met who doesn't know any of your details is some sort of elaborate police sting... well, it seems smoking weed really does make you paranoid.


-PayDirt
 

algebrajones

Active Member
I'll gladly take you up on your offer. Have dashed off relevant email.

Sometimes a black helicopter is just a black helicopter, people!!!
 

PayDirt

Member
I'll gladly take you up on your offer. Have dashed off relevant email.

Sometimes a black helicopter is just a black helicopter, people!!!

Email answered.


I'm up to three growers interested now... thanks guys.

If anyone else wants to get involved make yourself known as I can only facilitate five or six volunteers (only have enough supplies for about eleven grow bags).

I'm also willing to answer any questions anyone might have.


-PayDirt
 

snyder007

Well-Known Member
If it was me, I would take my test soil to a hydro store (if you have one) and have them do the tests. At my local store they have all kinds of flowers and plants set up to show off there merchandise. Perhaps they would be willing to try your soil out.
 

PayDirt

Member
If it was me, I would take my test soil to a hydro store (if you have one) and have them do the tests. At my local store they have all kinds of flowers and plants set up to show off there merchandise. Perhaps they would be willing to try your soil out.
Very astute snyder.

I actually did look into that.
Seems the biggest impediment is the sheer cost (115 euro per plant bag). No one is interested in a specially engineered soil that's 50 to 100 times the price of most regular composts. It's not a viable commercial product.

The closest I got was a university researcher acquaintance who considered running some tests. But eventually declined.



When it comes to growth rates they tend to top out at about 40% better than regular sterilised soil. No amount of further tweaking or processing a soil will improve upon that (only hydroponics can beat that growth rate).

Commercial/industrial growers such as those maturing saplings into small trees on a coveyor belt system (such factories exist in France producing oak; walnut; apple; pear; plum and hazel trees to order) simply switch over to high pressure (2+ atmospheres) carbon dioxide environments. It's just cheaper.


The commercially redundant method, the one I'm interested in, is to limit the plant growth rate by utilising only a soil... but to process the soil in such a way as to optimise plant metabolism, rather than resort to hydroponics and forced photoythesis (CO2) to merely optimise the growth rate.

Plants with optimised metabolisms, growing in a highly engineered biologically activated soil will much better produce all those weird complex (metabolically costly) phytochemicals.

Unfortnately, modern agri-science eschews the whole concept of optimised plant metabolism. Farmers get paid on tonnage... not the nutrient density or vitamin/mineral content of their produce. No one checks the cartenoid content of carrots; no one checks the lycopene content of tomatoes. Sad really. Some of the more obscure vitamins/minerals/co-vitamins can be a hundred times more abundant in organic produce than in mass produced crops.


If you were growing tomatoes simply to harvest the lycopene (a vitamin type molecule which gives tomatoes their distictive red colouring), then you wouldn't attempt to grow the most tomatoes the fastest way possible... you'd attempt to grow the very healthiest tomatoes possible, from plants that don't suffer any defiencies.

So you wouldn't use harsh chemical fertilisers. You wouldn't grow hydroponically lest the plant grow too quickly to accumulate sufficient lycopene. You wouldn't force excessive photosynthesis (plants respire too) flushing the plants with CO2. Rather you'd use the very best; most nutritious and biologically active soil you could. That way you could be sure of the very healthiest plants; with optimised metabolism.

That's the way I've approached the problem.



If I grew plain old tomatoes then I'd have to have a lab test for lycopene yields in order to tell if my soil was doing anything really special. Probably easier simply to ask the volunteer "tomato" growers who've shown an iterest to do a quick "toke-test" of their crop.

Besides, I don't think there is a hydroponics store anywhere near Dublin, Ireland.

But a good point, and much appreciated.



-PayDirt
 

snyder007

Well-Known Member
I can completely understand why you would come here and ask us to do this for you. I personally wish I could assist you. Unfortunately I live in the states. I am however very eager to hear how your results turn up hearing that you have guinea pigs to test it on. I wish you and your test subjects the best of luck in your future endeavors.
 
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