Attention People Who DEBATE Over Religion.

pinxpointxpupil

pinxpointxpupil

Active Member
twostarhotel said:
its the only reason their religion still exists. only the good true slaves make it right? hah i think to belong to a religion is to bound your self to slavery in a sense. i agree with blazin to an extent that the core teachings are good, but i think they may have gone astray. the gnostics mention that the eternal spirit inside us is that connection we have with "god", or i like the "creation". actually basically every major religion and ancient cultures say the same thing, that there is an essence of god inside all conscious life. i think the prophecies and the teachings from the begining till now all seem to be just different interpretations of 1 thing, that humanity had at one time experienced. and now science, quantum physics, and all the teachings of biblical and religious teachings and prophecies, are helping to make clearer the nature of reality, and how we are "creators" with free will and what may happen, with the "end times" or "shift into this something new. conscious evolution and expaning in awareness. the universe is my new "religion". logic, truth, reason, love the frequency that creates
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You, my friend, are a genius.

I agree 100% with everything you said right there, I feel the same way about that shit and have for a while

It's good to know some people out there are thinking on a higher plane.....
 
twostarhotel

twostarhotel

Well-Known Member
hey thanks, so how do we convince someone they are brainwashed? or do we? its so much to explain sometimes you just dont want to start, because its just gonna come down to their lack of knowledge and faith that holds them down. or am i wrong? no cant be i used to be religious i know how they think, you know what i mean
 
pinxpointxpupil

pinxpointxpupil

Active Member
Lol well that statement is INCORRECT, I'm not saying it isn't true for all people, but as a general statement it's WRONG.
Why? Because just like twostarhotel, I used to be religious, wholeheartedly believed in god and considered myself a christian...I never pushed it onto people..I've woken up a considerable amount now and I'm an atheist and it remains the same.

I know LOTS of religious people that don't put their faith onto others and still remain die-hard to their faith.

And just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean i DON'T HAVE religious beliefs, but rather, that IS my religious belief.

I could go around all day saying there is no god but I know that wouldn't do anything because PEOPLE ALL THINK DIFFERENTLY AND IT IS NOT MY JOB TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK....fuck, im gettin all worked up over here hahahah
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
The religious people you're talking about aren't the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fanatics. You are most likely referring to the 85% (myself included before I started thinking) who call themselves Christian, but don't really follow the tenants of their religion or go to church every Sunday. In that case, you're right, but that isn't "real Christianity" as presented by movies, media, or the Bible, is it?

Find me one of those "Christians" who doesn't push their religion and I'll retract that statement.
 
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cavebaby

Member
pinxpointxpupil said:
Who cares we all die in the end, everyone just chill out and have their OWN beliefs.


Some People enjoy debating

Pushing yours onto others is fucking ignorant, learn to accept the other people might disagree with everything you stand for and believe in.

?

Who cares about who believes in god or who doesn't?
It is not something that should stand between people, religion and spirituality are some of the most personal things you have, don't ruin that by advertising your faith like it's lacking in members or something....

Again I suggest you reasearch the term apologetic


I guess the people who find their own faith and apply it to their life properly really get the most out of religion.

Opinion noted


I'm 100% atheist but I accept people of all shapes and forms and BELIEFS.

So? Most everyone does, Do you drop your beliefs? Why should others do the same? Just because people have different takes and opinions on things and want to debate them does not mean non acceptace of the person, only the doctrine.

Your a perfect example , would you drop your doctrine for me?


Chill and smoke some blunts:joint:
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I can dig that
 
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cavebaby

Member
Not at all, I believe some good morals come out of the Bible, I just also believe some bad morals come out of it too.

Please cite Primary sources


That's a major difference between a believer and an atheist -

You must have forgot the 50 millon Stalin killed and the 150 million plus Chairman Mao killed in their athiest utopias just in the last 75 years


believers read the Bible as the word of the creator of the universe

The Bible is not inspired, The original texts are In our opinions


and the purpose for life and existence, how could one possibly question it?

Question what?


An atheist reads it with a skeptical frame of mind, as stories to be researched for their accuracy and backgrounds.

Cool the Bible has been found to be 98.5% texturally pure to the original manuscripts, and many discoveries in history and archology
can be attributed to Information from Holy Scripture.Other Scientific discoverys were mentioned In scripture long ago and are just being found out now


This is not how you're supposed to read it... You must believe in magic

Magic? Hardly , but opinion noted


if you believe Christianity is the answer to the question of our existence.

Primary sources?


I have never witnessed a supernatural event, ever,

I have, At least to me i call seeing a Ghost supernatural


and I'm unwilling to accept the tenets of any organized religion based on faith.

You already have, athiests exercise much faith In declaring their is no God

As I've learned in life, you must trust something to have faith in it,

Exactly, and you write off people like me and the possibilty that there is actually a God to trust


and I'm sure at this point I don't have to explain to anyone why asking me to trust any organized religion is an impossibility.


At the presant time


Trust is completely out of the question.

Perhaps......


When someone claims to have answers, that's what I expect, and all you get from organized religions are more and more questions.

Well what questions?



And that's only half of it...

The other half is far worse and makes me angry on a daily basis because I see the consequences of it working in action in people I know, people I love and care about. I see how it influences systems in our world and destroys human potential. It turns essentially family members against each other because of literally the most irrelevant things imaginable in the grand scheme of things.

Opinion noted, please cite Primary sources




Look what knowledge does to a persons mind.

Works both ways


Look what discovery does. Look what SCIENCE does, history does, math does, every goddamn thing we've ever discovered that has enabled our species to take another small step up the ladder of progress, look what it does.


Hmm, Other than technology i see no major advacement in mens actions in the last 1000 years, Progress?...thats another
debate If we are to believe our green friends


It creates atheists


Opinion noted, but IMO Athiests Choose to be that way
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Cavebaby, you just tickled me in a way I haven't been tickled in quite a while! Thank you for that. I love responding to stuff like this, so keep it coming man. I'll keep it civil if you will... I'm going to edit the post together to make it easier to read, hope you don't mind. :joint:

Please cite Primary sources

Bad morals from the Bible... OK, what about this...;

-God commits genocide when he drowns the world in Genesis and only saves Noah and his family

-the Israelites commit genocide of the Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites in Canaan under Gods instructions in Dueteronomy and Joshua;

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Deuteronomy 7:1-2:
"... the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them."
​
Joshua 6:21:
"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword."
​
Joshua 10:40-41:
"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon."
​
[/FONT]-Sodom and Gomorrah

-genocide of the Geshurites, Gezirites, and Amalekites in Samuel;

1 Samuel 27:8-9:
"And David and his men went up, and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezrites, and the Amalekites ... And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel. And David saved neither man nor woman alive"

​
I can provide more sources if you'd like.

You must have forgot the 50 millon Stalin killed and the 150 million plus Chairman Mao killed in their athiest utopias just in the last 75 years

Definitely not, but there is no link between Stalin or Mao being atheist and their brutal regimes. Here's that exact same accusation answered from members of the Richard Dawkins foundation, because it's become such a common talking point in religious circles;

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/1779-hitler-stalin-mao-etc-were-atheists-and-they-were-terrible-answer-that

Here are the first two replies;

"First of all, Hitler wasn't an atheist.

Second, while Stalin and Mao were athiests, they did not perpetrate their atrocities because of their atheism. There is nothing about atheism that necessarily leads to mass murder or genocide.

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god.

Contrast this with the Inquisition. The atrocities perpetrated were because of a doctrine held by the church, and the thoughts/actions of those deemed to be heretical. Christianity can be blamed in this instance, while in the examples above atheism cannot."
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"The actions of totalitarians have far more in common with religious, rather than secular values.

Do not question the leader, submit unthinkingly, ethics are what the authority says they are, or else. There is no external moral benchmark.

These are the catchphrases of totalitarians through the ages. In the religious context the leader is God, the authority is the Bible and the "or else" the Inquisition. In a secular context the leader may be Hitler, the authority "Main Kampf" and the "or else" the Gestapo.

The root problem, is that Dogma and Ideology which must be obeyed without question, lead inevitably to horrors. The precedents, both religious and secular are legion. Religion is merely a subset of the primary concept. The antidote, is genuine free thought, skepticism and critical thinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmsis-motuY "
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:clap::clap:

Question what?

The purpose for life and for existence.

Cool the Bible has been found to be 98.5% texturally pure to the original manuscripts, and many discoveries in history and archology can be attributed to Information from Holy Scripture.Other Scientific discoverys were mentioned In scripture long ago and are just being found out now

What does "texturally pure" mean exactly?

Be specific, what has the Bible (and not any other religious text) discovered before science? Exclude things that were common sense at the time and were impossible to test by traditional scientific methods.
Magic? Hardly , but opinion noted

Yes, magic. That's what I call supernatural events, magic. I've never, not once seen something magical. There has always been an explanation for it.

Primary sources?

I'm not sure what you mean...

I have, At least to me i call seeing a Ghost supernatural

I don't think you're lying. I think you honestly believe you experienced something supernatural. My question is, how do you know it was a ghost and not something else, completely explainable?

You already have, athiests exercise much faith In declaring their is no God

You're right, as that's an impossible question to answer at this point in time. But I don't claim "there is no God". I am an atheist who doesn't believe there is a God. I really don't know one way or the other, but I do believe there is no God based on my observations with reality. If I simply said "I don't know.." without the conclusion that I also don't believe there is one, then I'd be an agnostic atheist. The terms are a little complicated, don't get hung up on the terms. That's not important.

Exactly, and you write off people like me and the possibilty that there is actually a God to trust

If there was a God and this entire game we call life was a test to walk through the pearly gates, I'd expect that god to convey his message a little bit more clearly than via some of the most insane people I've ever come into contact with, I'm sorry, but that's just the truth. God - the creator - would be smarter than that, how do I know that? Because I wouldn't be smarter than God... Think about it. You will come to the same conclusion. The way reality is is not the way a perfect being would make it. That fact is unavoidable when dealing with perfection.

I'm 100% open to all evidence provided, from both sides. Do you have any? Show me.

Well what questions?

Who created God? Where did it come from? What are it's powers? What is our purpose? Why are we here? Many questions. Religion does not answer questions, it just fills in the blanks with the Shang Tsung of words - Faith... Unacceptable.

Opinion noted, please cite Primary sources

OK, I'll find some...

Works both ways

I believe religion poisons a persons mind. Remember, that's just an opinion.

Hmm, Other than technology i see no major advacement in mens actions in the last 1000 years, Progress?...thats another debate If we are to believe our green friends

Cavebaby, you trippin!

We've sent shit out of our solar system, 4 times. We've landed on the Moon 43 times, Venus 15 times, Mars 11 times, and 5 other planetary bodies including Jupiter and Saturn's largest moon Titan. All that doesn't include the flybys or space probes that haven't landed on anything, which would include the Hubble Space Telescope. Literally billions of bits of information we would not otherwise have were it not for these amazing pieces of technology and human ingenuity! Moving on, you did say the last THOUSAND years right?... I'll just list some random shit I know about from then till now...

-Machiavelli
-Francis Bacon
-Thomas Hobbes
-Rene Descartes
-John Locke
-Voltaire
-David Hume
-Immanuel Kant
-Thomas Paine
-Bertrand Russell
-Chomsky
-John Searl

That's just philosophy...

Add in some Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, some Einstein and Hawkins, some Henry Ford and Andrew Carnegie... Dude, more advancement has happened in the last thousand years than the entire history of our species before that combined. They even have names for it - Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Dark Age, Enlightenment, Renaissance, Revolution, Industrial Revolution, Information Age, everything up until the information age progressed at a very slow pace, really, it was the Industrial Revolution that kicked it off, but now information is exponential.

Opinion noted, but IMO Athiests Choose to be that way

I don't have the luxury of choosing what I believe. :-|
 
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cavebaby

Member
Cavebaby, you trippin!

We've sent shit out of our solar system, 4 times. We've landed on the Moon 43 times, Venus 15 times, Mars 11 times, and 5 other planetary bodies including Jupiter and Saturn's largest moon Titan. All that doesn't include the flybys or space probes that haven't landed on anything, which would include the Hubble Space Telescope. Literally billions of bits of information we would not otherwise have were it not for these amazing pieces of technology and human ingenuity! Moving on, you did say the last THOUSAND years right?... I'll just list some random shit I know about from then till now...
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I fail to see how this has anything to do with the way men treat each other, re read what i said......''mens actions''...as in the way they treat each other
Also im still waiting for your Primary sources with an eye on the claims Christians are supposed to believe


As to the rest of your post....give me some time, After work ill smoke a fatty and will have more time to adress some more of your points
 
pinxpointxpupil

pinxpointxpupil

Active Member
Cavebaby, I'm not really sure what you're getting at? Are you here to tell me I am wrong???

OBVIOUSLY people like to debate, i guess i shouldn't have used that term, I should have used "argue."

It's retarded to argue and try to convince one another who's religion or faith is NUMBER ONE or the ultimate truth....

I don't think that people know, AT ALL, how to accept one another's beliefs. Seeing people trying to tell someone that how they think about god is wrong looks like they can't accept the fact somebody thinks in a different way.

I would not drop my 'doctrine' but that doesn't mean at all that I can't look at your faith with an open mind. Considering your idea as a possibility (because NOBODY actually knows anything for sure) doesn't mean I'm changing/dropping my faith, it means I am capable of seeing things from another view.

I KNEW people were going to try to pick this thread apart and say a bunch of shit about how I'm wrong..

This thread wasn't meant to start more arguments, rather to try to STOP them and get people to just chill out..

All I was trying to say was that everyone all has their own beliefs, if two people happen to share faiths, it should be embraced but opposing view points should not try to tell eachother who is "right", rather should just accept the other as a alternative view of the world.

How can anybody argue with me there? You're saying people should start religious 'wars' all the time because somebody doesn't agree with you??????

Like ok how about I like dogs and you don't. Should I sit here all day trying to convince you that I am right and you are wrong on something that is totally opinion based?

How about I just accpet the fact that you, and many others, might like cats and call it a fuckin day.
 
pinxpointxpupil

pinxpointxpupil

Active Member
and padawanbater I'm not really sure, are you agreeing with me? No? What?

It seemed at first that you were totally disagreeing but now that i read your latest few posts it looks like many of your ideas are similar in nature to mine...
 
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cavebaby

Member
pinxpointxpupil said:
Cavebaby, I'm not really sure what you're getting at? Are you here to tell me I am wrong???

About what?


OBVIOUSLY people like to debate, i guess i shouldn't have used that term, I should have used "argue."

Agreed

It's retarded to argue and try to convince one another who's religion or faith is NUMBER ONE or the ultimate truth....

To argue is to waste time


I don't think that people know, AT ALL, how to accept one another's beliefs.


I would differ, To accept does not mean to embrace or convert....Oh and another point if what you say is true then folks would not convert from one to another

Seeing people trying to tell someone that how they think about god is wrong looks like they can't accept the fact somebody thinks in a different way.

Im not sure the whole world sees it like you do, In Christianity we have a saying about Pearls....Many ''christians'' witness in the wrong place, or do it by their own accord with out the gudience of the Holy Spirit, so in a way i would agree with you.
But other times I have seen much learning take place on both sides of the isle, a good thing as i see it because I think its retarded
when people debate a subject and have no working understanding of the thing they debate against, again this takes place on both sides of the isle




I would not drop my 'doctrine' but that doesn't mean at all that I can't look at your faith with an open mind. Considering your idea as a possibility (because NOBODY actually knows anything for sure) doesn't mean I'm changing/dropping my faith, it means I am capable of seeing things from another view.

Word ....But would you agree that its not being intolerant to hold to the doctrines of ones own faith? While still ''seeing things'' from another view?


I KNEW people were going to try to pick this thread apart and say a bunch of shit about how I'm wrong..

Well why did you do it then? And Im not sure i said ''your wrong''


This thread wasn't meant to start more arguments, rather to try to STOP them and get people to just chill out..

It failed? Look , My perspective concerns only remarks directed At Christians and Christianty, to ask for souces for claims
and Primary data give me a chance to mull over your claims and see if there is anything debate worthy
If you just said all this was ''MY'' opinion then I would have no reason to respond


All I was trying to say was that everyone all has their own beliefs, if two people happen to share faiths, it should be embraced but opposing view points should not try to tell eachother who is "right", rather should just accept the other as a alternative view of the world.

Im down with that

How can anybody argue with me there? You're saying people should start religious 'wars' all the time because somebody doesn't agree with you??????

See there you go again....If you said ''ARE you'' saying......then the context of your remarks would be different.

No I never said or implied that...In fact Christ forbids such actions
''
Like ok how about I like dogs and you don't. Should I sit here all day trying to convince you that I am right and you are wrong on something that is totally opinion based?


I see no worth in wasting my time ....unless you kept rolling joints of JH or WW...then i would listen all day long

How about I just accpet the fact that you, and many others, might like cats and call it a fuckin day.
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How bout just call it a day?
 
twostarhotel

twostarhotel

Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;fTmac2fs5HQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTmac2fs5HQ[/video]
damn i just wrote soo much to have the page lose connection and the site have me log back in.
but yeah. there is no god, only pure consciousness which we share a connection to, with our soul, and all matter as we know it. all knowing, omnipresent, all time i think as the thousands and thousands of years gone by, interpretation were made. many of them. i think what happend to religion is that it got updated more than a windows operating system. to "evolve" into what the influencers of that paticular "evolution" wanted it to be. we made everything we see in this world the way we actually intended. maybe not you and me personally but the alphas who came in and decided they were going to lead humanity in their own way. but now more than ever these manipulator mobsters are being exposed more and more. so smoke some herb and let your thoughts wander. and keep spreading the good news that we dont have to be slaves anymore!
 
nazarethjay

nazarethjay

Member
christopher hitchens christopher hitchens christopher hitchens christopher hitchens christopher hitchens christopher hitchens christopher hitchens christopher hitchenschristopher hitchens
watch,read,listen to as much as this guy has to say you wont meet many people with his intelligents.
this man knows the facts
 
pinxpointxpupil

pinxpointxpupil

Active Member
Lol ok I'm tired of this, tired of explaining myself so much with 0 mutual understanding.

I get everything everybody is trying to say! I understand where it's all coming from and it can all be agreed upon by me on certain points.

But every time I post I'm met with responses from people who really do not understand what I am trying to say.

Lol whatever I guess I should just keep all my stupid thoughts to myself.........

Continue trying to tell each other who's right! I'll be in the back smokin blunts let me know who wins
 
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