Attention People Who DEBATE Over Religion.

pinxpointxpupil said:

Who cares we all die in the end, everyone just chill out and have their OWN beliefs.

Pushing yours onto others is fucking ignorant, learn to accept the other people might disagree with everything you stand for and believe in.

Who cares about who believes in god or who doesn't?
It is not something that should stand between people, religion and spirituality are some of the most personal things you have, don't ruin that by advertising your faith like it's lacking in members or something....

I guess the people who find their own faith and apply it to their life properly really get the most out of religion.

I'm 100% atheist but I accept people of all shapes and forms and BELIEFS.





Chill and smoke some blunts

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As far as Enoch and the other "lost" and left out books of the bible.... yeah, what a scam... Noah is a story that us as old as man, only his name is Gilgamesh in every other ancient text... oh and it was just regular farm animals he took with.... something new to humans at the time, we were hunter gathers before that, and that is why it was monumental that he saved some cows and goats and sheep....
Ever Read the bible? Who are the "others" mentioned in Genesis, the ones who lived outside of the garden of eden....? I mean if the bible is fact and all..... why were there others if Adam and Eve were the first.... and why don't we all have the DNA of relatives if we all came from them????
what IF the people with wings that come from the heavens and do miracles are just older races of beings from other worlds.... and the ancients had no other way or idea to explain this!?! And what if they mated with the earthly beings of that time.... wouldn't this explain evolution? (for which there is PROOF, not just faith... hundreds if not thousands of examples now, see Lucy for a good example.) Space is litterally way bigger and more vast then we can imigane, if earth was a grain of sand ON earth, and all ot the other stars were too, there isn't even enough sand on all of the planet earth to represent every star out there, and every star has a number of planets orbiting it, like earth orbits the sun... so the # of planted out there is literally UN-IMAGANIBLE.... to think we were bade by god and are the only ones like us anywhere, is just silly really, not to mention a bit nieve.
Ever had a conversation with a devout person about science? It is like listening to someone from Salem Mass. circa 1692 tell you about how all of the women you know are definitely witches..... The people I have discussed this with have been 100% dismissive of radio carbon dating, DNA, facial reconstruction, and the dozens of other methods used to prove the science of the things the we find in the ground that support the sciences.

The bible and other texts gave the ancient people, who didn't have any other way of explaining the Why's in life, a picture they could hold onto in their heads so they didn't go mad wondering..... Keep in mind, these same people thought the world was flat, that the sun relvolved around the earth, and didn't even know that sex is what made baby's.... they had to have something. Now that we have seen the earth from space, most believe it is round, why doesn't the proof that we evolved do the same thing... fear! Just like it always has been.
Also, kind of joking with this one...(kind of) but what if and I am just saying WHAT IF on this one.... what if the virgin mary was merely a functional hermaphodite, and the immaculate conseption was made up to protect her from certain exacution?

I agree, most who claim to be devout spend way too much time and energy trying to convert and therefore JUDGING which, as I understand it, is against their whole gig anyways.... I am agreeing with YOU pinx, but would like to add the words Politics and Prob 19 to you're title, as these are often too heated and hated upon here as well....

And for Padawanbater2... below is a quote from u, I don't now how to add a quote in edit and didnt want to double post....

You're right, as that's an impossible question to answer at this point in time. But I don't claim "there is no God". I am an atheist who doesn't believe there is a God. I really don't know one way or the other, but I do believe there is no God based on my observations with reality. If I simply said "I don't know.." without the conclusion that I also don't believe there is one, then I'd be an agnostic atheist. The terms are a little complicated, don't get hung up on the terms. That's not important.


Just as an F.Y.I. the fact that you have some doubt in your statement about how you really don't know one way or the other... does make you Agnostic rather than Atheist

from dictionary.com,
1.a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

nasa is saying there could be up to 100 BILLION earth like planets in our milky way galaxy alone
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/02/25/galaxy.planets.kepler/index.html
is there a jesus and a satan on those as well?
[video=youtube;7f01IBDoZGg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f01IBDoZGg[/video]
as long as we can get people to open their minds we can save the world from being destroyed by religions and the ruling mafia of government, media outlets, and major coroporations. herb helped me but not all pot heads are open minded unfourtunatly

IMO religion is an old, obsolete, tool used to explain natural occurrences on the earth. (IE the sun rising = the sun god defeating the darkness)

Things that people didn't and couldn't understand in ancient times were explained through creation myths and religious stories.
If people could make their religion SCIENCE I think a lot more rational thinking would exist.

Although, thinking about Christianity and it's ideals, I have come to realize that without christianity, our world would be a less advanced place than it is now.

Christianity basically says "You always have to be better than you are now if you want to get into heaven" so think about how strong of a motivating force that has been for people in the past, especially people that came up with groundbreaking ideas.

Not that I agree with it but it's almost a necessary evil....

pinxpointxpupil said:

Dude that is absolutely not true. Ok many christian forms of religion (for example) will do what you say, try their very hardest to convert others in order to save the world or something...but that doesn't make it a legit thing to do at all!!

There any many religions that do the exact thing religion is for: a life tool. Something to tell right from wrong among many other things.

There are monks all over the world who will gladly teach their beliefs but don't push it on everyone as if they were trying to convert them.

I'm not even sure exactly what you are arguing though, you're saying that its cool for people to put each other into these different categories? or what? As in it's ok to believe that ONLY ones you share faith with are "good" where as all others are "bad"?
Like I said, religion is a personal thing, one person may think the bible told him to kill his children, where as another will say the bible tells him to provide for his children.

All I'm saying is that it is more than just possible for people to agree on things and have totally different religions.

Morals are morals weather they're influenced by any faith or no faith.

Someone of a certain religion that thinks another person is corrupting/hurting them or their children ONLY based on the fact that their faiths contradict each other in some way, in my eyes, are making decisions based on assumptions. There is no way for them to know weather everyone of this certain faith is a threat to them. People in their OWN faith could be a threat but they will overlook that information simply because they share the same religious belief?

It's very funny to me that some Christians (once again, purely for example) will laugh at native american creation myths but then be like "Oh hahaha how silly to think that! Don't they know everything was made in a week by a magical deity in the clouds?"

Just sounds silly to me

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I couldn't agree with you more about religion. Religion is very much a bunch of bullshit. Almost every "preacher" or "man of the cloth" that I've ever known is a piece of shit. However, there is a God and Jesus to match. Like you said, it is very much what you believe in your own soul. God gave us that gift. Don't forget that the world is full of idiots. Gives me a good deal of peace that I have the gift of "above average" intelligence. Anybody that tries to judge another human being and try and tell them the way to think or act is not a person of God!

Padawanbater2 said:

Are you telling me you think no progress has been made in the last 10,000 years?
Look at our species then and look at it now. How did we get from there to here? It's undeniably better in virtually every aspect of life today than it was at almost any other time in the past, that's progress is it not?

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progress toward what? an understanding of the universe around us and the means to exert some control over it? yes. an understanding of ourselves and the means to control our baser selves? that is the more difficult road and one that all the science in the world can never help us travel. we live longer, life is more convenient and we have more things, but are we better people because of these advances?

You'd have to get a little more specific about what you mean by "those ultimate answers that plague us all" because I'd argue science actively works on answering some of the biggest, most important questions I personally have.
It isn't the job of science to tell someone what is moral or why.

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thank you for making my point for me.

any animal can observe the world around it. many of them are quite capable of taking those observations and extrapolating the future from them. mankind strives to be something more than just another animal. all of our science merely takes the natural observational capacity of any animal and adds to its complexity. it is nothing new, it is just more elaborate. if all you want is to know about what is around you, science will provide you with an avenue to that end. if your goal is to become a better person, no amount of science will point you in the right direction. for centuries, many have used religion as their compass to that path.

religion may not be the best way to improve the ethos of the species, but it has provided us with a morality that surpasses any ethical teachings that mere science has ever devised.

Padawanbater2 said:

I'm talking about the pawns. You, me, people like us. Being an atheist doesn't guarantee anything, but believing in any organized religion does. 14% says a lot, and that number rises every year.

You ever hear some self righteous Christian soldier say "there's no atheists in fox holes.."? You wanna know the real reason why that statement is true?

An atheist is smart enough not to join such a corrupt Christian gang in the first fuckin' place.



Are you telling me you think no progress has been made in the last 10,000 years?

Look at our species then and look at it now. How did we get from there to here? It's undeniably better in virtually every aspect of life today than it was at almost any other time in the past, that's progress is it not?



You'd have to get a little more specific about what you mean by "those ultimate answers that plague us all" because I'd argue science actively works on answering some of the biggest, most important questions I personally have.

It isn't the job of science to tell someone what is moral or why. What's next, we start holding soccer accountable for not having enough stolen bases?? Silly analogy, but you get the point. You can't hold science accountable for something you think it should answer when it isn't capable in the first place. Human morality and it's origins can be explored by looking into the past at our ancestors and things like altruism, but to understand such things you must accept the theory of evolution, so someone peeking in with a believers perspective already has conflict with the whole idea.

Well, when you come up with a better tool to discover our existence, let me know. Till then, I think I'll still with the sterility that's saved millions of lives over the course of it's run.



...and that is the problem.

You guys sound like that's it, we've already lost, nothing is even worth pursuing anymore because we'll never win anyway.

That mentality is the problem.

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I do admit that Christians seem a bit pessimistic, but they already are expecting the next life which makes this one trivial. That obviously doesnt help things, especially obvious in radical Muslims... But it all depends on the individual motive and strength of belief.
I dont know what makes people Atheist, but i would love to know what it is because i havent found it yet.

TrippyReefer said:

I don't know what makes people Atheist, but i would love to know what it is because i haven't found it yet.

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to completely deny the existence of a god, one must either take a leap of faith or find sufficient reason to prefer a universe without a sentient creator. all faith, even the lack of it, is choice.

pinxpointxpupil said:

IMO religion is an old, obsolete, tool used to explain natural occurrences on the earth. (IE the sun rising = the sun god defeating the darkness)

Things that people didn't and couldn't understand in ancient times were explained through creation myths and religious stories.
If people could make their religion SCIENCE I think a lot more rational thinking would exist.

Although, thinking about Christianity and it's ideals, I have come to realize that without christianity, our world would be a less advanced place than it is now.

Christianity basically says "You always have to be better than you are now if you want to get into heaven" so think about how strong of a motivating force that has been for people in the past, especially people that came up with groundbreaking ideas.

Not that I agree with it but it's almost a necessary evil....

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Galileo Galilei, copernicus and god knows how many other great minds were suppressed and put under house arrest. for telling the truth about how the physical world worked, even now with christians against shit like stem cell research, still could be holding advancement back .
its ok for quacky faith healers to spin there shit , even jesus cured by the laying on of hands(yeah right). but its not ok to say that the world is round and planets go around the sun and the world aint the centrer of the universe.
religion is a lie no matter which 1 you subscribe to.

there has been life on this rock for millions of years, stars in the sky for billions of years. mankind has been around for a blink of an eye in this time frame. WE CREATED THE CREATOR!

Yes, the universe was around much longer than us. That gave God a lot of time to do whatever the heck he wanted to, probably billions of years of creation. Idk about the earth being around for 6 thousand years only, science just doesnt seem to support that.

the sphinx could be over 30,000 years old the pyramids maybe more than 70,000. "The Kingdom of God" ( Far-World, hyperspace, time-space, non matter world, spirit world) cometh not with observation neither shall they say, Lo here! Or lo there! For behold, the kingdom of god is within you" luke 17:20-21
the man we know as jesus said that and he also told his disciples that to them he teaches the secrets, to the masses he teaches in parables.
the entire bible is such old language and on top of that written in terms, phrases, metaphores, codes and secrets. we see that within the church system of today, hiding their secrets, most churches are kinda creepy anyway. they wont tell theyre secrets because the power they hold will crumble, same as our corrupt world leaders today i believe these spoiled institutions wont have their way with us for too much longer

Oneton said:

there has been life on this rock for millions of years, stars in the sky for billions of years. mankind has been around for a blink of an eye in this time frame. WE CREATED THE CREATOR!

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Totally agree. Basically what I say is humans don't know SHIT ABOUT SHIT, we try to act big and bad like were the only thing going on in the universe when we are smaller than 1% of a spec in the cosmos....
I suppose Christianity HAS held back a lot of great thinking and still is. I was only saying that it CAN be used as a good tool.

undertheice said:

mankind strives to be something more than just another animal.

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What does that mean?
Seriously, why do some people get so hung up with the reality that humans are just intelligent primates and still part of the animal kingdom?
What exactly are 'we' striving for? I'm very content with reality the way it is.

The size of the earth alone is imperceptible for other than the most brilliant of minds. That leaves about 99% of us in the dark!

i dont know if any of you have heard of sgt clifford stone who says hes worked with and seen ets and says the government knows of at least 57 different human like et species within our galaxy, yeah crazy. and another guy henry deacon whos come out and says he works on a base on mars and jumps like through a wormhole or goes into a sort of jump room and jumps him to mars from a base in america, and he works with future humans and humans from other planets! haha but if you want to hear a wild et contact story check this guy out
billy meier says hes been to other planets on pleiadian beamships and has gotten spiritual teachings and philosophy from them
this is from a movie called the silent revolution of truth, i couldnt find the link for the whole movie
[video=youtube;Mg-tJX1R_sE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg-tJX1R_sE[/video]

Twostar, wait I am confused.... if a crazy old white man with a crazy long white beard spouts off about his outlandish tales about people in the skys tells his tale on youtube he is crazy, but if he does this from a mulitmillion dollar building, with a basket full of cash circulating for the people in the audiance to add to, and a giant reprensantion of a guy who died 2k years ago behind him, he is called pastor..... Or if he did this from a rock in the desert, maybe he would be a prophit.... I fail to see the difference, oh wait, the crazy guy isn't taking peoples money for his tales, is this what makes him crazy? Or is it the 50,000 hits on his video, is this too many? Or maybe it is that he has an idea outside of the box... that MUST be it! Lol, sorry sarcasm not ment AT u Twostar lol

mindphuk said:

What does that mean?
Seriously, why do some people get so hung up with the reality that humans are just intelligent primates and still part of the animal kingdom?
What exactly are 'we' striving for? I'm very content with reality the way it is.

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Just the fact that human beings are the only species capable of spiritual consciousness means we are more than just animals. If you dont believe spiritual consciousness, what is it? The increased electrical activity in our brains? The euphoric chemical interactions between neurons? The higher development of our cerebral cortex?
IMO, everything we can prove about the universe and ourselves is just another design that God put into the universe and in us. Using our knowledge to disprove God just doesn't make sense to me.

TrippyReefer said:

Just the fact that human beings are the only species capable of spiritual consciousness means we are more than just animals. If you dont believe spiritual consciousness, what is it? The increased electrical activity in our brains? The euphoric chemical interactions between neurons? The higher development of our cerebral cortex?
IMO, everything we can prove about the universe and ourselves is just another design that God put into the universe and in us. Using our knowledge to disprove God just doesn't make sense to me.

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Science has continually discovered that nature appears to work by very basic laws that can be mathematically defined. The continual discovery of these laws is that they fit into a reductionist framework and it is very probable that we will one day find a Theory of Everything, whereby the complexity we see can be explained by a simplified framework. To introduce the idea that a complex designer is required to create this simplicity is not an explanation for anything and begs the question of where this initial complexity came from. God doesn't explain anything and only creates more questions than are truly necessary.

AFAIK, no one has ever demonstrated that there is such a thing as spirituality except in the mind of man.

mindphuk said:

What does that mean?
Seriously, why do some people get so hung up with the reality that humans are just intelligent primates and still part of the animal kingdom?
What exactly are 'we' striving for? I'm very content with reality the way it is.

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Perhaps it's because science only takes us so far. If we knew what "we" were "striving" for that would kinda take the mystery out of the question. Your mind works a little bit differently from mine and a little bit differently from perhaps any other human on the planet. Anatomically and physiologically our brains are virtually identical but I can't seem to wrap my head around certain concepts while others seem to come naturally to me. What is easy for you may not compute in my brain. I am happy that you are content and a bit envious too but for many humans there are many questions that science just doesn't answer adequately if at all. If there is nothing after this life it kind of makes this life seem pointless to me. If our consciousness simply ceases when we die then why even bother with being a good person or having a career or a family? Just because of some coded sequence of amino acids which compel me too? Perhaps but then again who really knows?

science is not an institution it is the study of..
the thing is there is no "God" straight up ok. there is only "the creation" that first thought or feeling, the base energy that is the energy of all electrons, nuetrons, protons and atoms. if you really study the laws of the universe things will start to make sense slowly.
the law of attraction which can go into much detail but simply, like attracts like.
the law of deliberate intent: what is intented and held resolutely within thought, word and deed manifests.
the law of allowance: allowing what is intended to manifest while using the observer mode to be awake and aware while continuing to hold the focus without being rigid as to the outcome.( allowing thought to think!)
the law of balance: applying the first 3 laws and focusing within the present moment.
within the ability to comprehend, accept and apply these laws, lies the future of mankinds experience.
basically all material things have come to manifest in this way. every conscious being has complete freewill!
these are not new ideas, the ancients knew of sacred geometry, they knew of the far world. they even knew what the pineal gland and dna looked like
these are not ideas from man but from the collective consciouness or creation which we have access too, the ether, the akashic records all part of us the only thing is that our connection has become erroded. strive to become more aware and consciouss everyday.
and to leroy jenkins billy meier doesnt post anything on youtube doesnt even speak in public, hes been having contacts since the 1940s and only a handful of films have been produced for the world to see. this guy knows people are haters and would rather write books and teach people in switzerland. this kind of stuff is for the seeker, when we try and talk about this kind of stuff anywhere besides a place like this it usually doesnt work