Brick Top
New Member
Not that I am asking what your business is, or even care, but after having owned three businesses I feel I am totally correct. If someone is in a manufacturer and there is a flaw the true responsibility is that of the manufacturer, not the business that collected the final money. When Ford Explorers were rolling it was Bridgestone/Goodyear that ended up in court and paying, not Ford Motor Company. A reseller should do all they can to help and see to it that the customer is satisfied, but if like in this case there are set rules and policies and the consumer refuses to abide by them, then that frees the reseller from having to do a darn thing if they don't want to due to how they were dealt, rule policies refused to be followed by the consumer, as in with this case the illegal nature of the product. If in a business where they use or resell products made by others the responsibility for a problem is the manufacturer. Yes the business normally handles it the best they can and as much as they can, but there are always limits, but when in an illegal business like seeds, only partially illegal in the UK, there are set rules and guidelines about how problems have to be settled. Clearly the thread starter ignored those clearly set out rules.
Look at things.
1.) Attitude is a reseller, they purchase seeds in good faith, to be what the breeder packaged them as being and claimed they are/were. If the thread stater believes he/she was ripped off then they also have to believe that Attitude was ripped off first, when they purchased the beans believing they were one thing but they turned out to be another. Still I do not rule out operator error or another orchestrated anti-Attitude campaign blitz like has been hitting these sort of sites.
Think about it, a new member, joined the day of their very first message and that very first message says Attitude doesn't care about his/her sick "mum" and should. Why here? Why join today, here, and also on how many other sites, just to complain?
2.)Breeders make the seeds, not Attitude, not any seed vendor that is strictly a seed vendor and not a breeder also. All product flaws are the cause and the responsibility of the seed maker, the manufacturer, not any seed vendor, none of them. not one single one of them.
3.) No blame whatsoever was placed on the manufacturer and packager, the producer and packager, the creator and packager of the beans. None whatsoever. Entire blame was placed on Attitude and on Attitude alone, just as in all the anti-Attitude negative campaign blitzes run. The business who created/made the allegedly flawed item or items and then either directly or through a wholesaler sold them to Attitude, or any seed vendor, to then be resold is considered to be absolutely guilt free, totally innocent of the part they played, the absolutely major part of creating and selling possibly flawed or misrepresented merchandise. Nope, they are blameless and all blame, all responsibility is that of Attitudes, or whatever seed vendor is being ripped apart for no good reason.
4.) It was said; "Upon phoning them about it on monday morning, they just dismissed me saying that its illegal to germinate in the uk and wouldnt help me in any way shape or form." Attitude has strict rules about talking about germination or growing problems and it is evident the person did not follow the clearly laid out rules which is why Attitude said they could not help him. They will not risk their business over any single customer, even one with a sad story about a sick "mum." You have to know how to talk around the subject while still making yourself perfectly clear, certain things cannot be said, but they can be inferred. The thread starter blew his chance for help by talking germination and or growing problems. That the thread starter brought on themselves. If you know certain things are unable to be said in plain language and then you say them and the conversation is stopped .... that is your own fault. If you did not read their policies and the same result followed, that is also your own fault because the policies are easily found and expected to be followed by all customers.
5.) He/She tried to tug at the readers heartstrings trying to cause people to dislike Attitude even more by saying; 'Our mums dying and you think its good buisiness to sell people shit males when we paid for feminized so we wouldnt have to go through all this time wasing that we havent got." Heartstrings tug, "mums dying." Only blame Attitude remark; "you think its good buisiness to sell people shit males when we paid for feminized so we wouldnt have to go through all this time wasing that we havent got." No remark at all about the thread started having any possible questions about the quality of the product Attitude purchased in good faith to be what they paid for, If the scenario is true, does anyone think that Attitude likes to be ripped off? Does anyone think that Attitude likes to be made to look bad by selling products that may not have been what they were sold to Attitude as being and then catch all the flack as if it was all Attitude's fault?
6.) Then there was the part that said; "Attitude Seed bank feminised all males!!" Now I admit that five out of seven feminized beans turning out to me males is a terrible percentage, but then five out of seven does not equal "all males," five out of seven does not equate to; "all males." It is an embellishment, like I believe much too all of the story is, intentionally made to make Attitude look as bad as possible.
I have been through this enough time already that no one should need to question anything. I was first a new car auto dealer and then owner of a marina where we also sold boats. In each case the larger and better we became the more small slip through the cracks problems happened. We had one employee who figured out a way to scam us, and our customers, of thousands of dollars over roughly a year's time before they took a powder on us before being caught. We were supplied with products to sell that either had flaws or as in one instance were so damn high tech they would not operate as they should in the environment they were being used in.
You cannot watch every single employee every minute of every day. If you had someone watching every single employee who would watch the people watching every single employee? Then who would watch them? 100% security is utterly impossible for a small business unless you run a mom & pop business and mom or pop is missing and the business is a one man band, so to speak, and then it will still come down to the honesty of that one single person. Small business is not the casino business. Small business cannot afford to have someone watching someone and then someone watching them and someone watching them and so on and so on until in the end there are cameras in the ceiling and around rooms where others watch everyone on monitors. The very best any small business can do is try to hire the people they believe to be the best that are available to them at the time they are hiring and hope they did not choose unwisely.
When you rely on manufacturers for the goods you sell you rely on them keeping up standards and supplying you with what you purchase, and not just whatever they would prefer to ship. When there is a problem the warranty for the item is with the manufacturer, not the seller. The seller will handle things and be paid for their time by the manufacturer, but all responsibility for the flaw or the problem and the actual standing behind the product, the warrantying of the product is that of the manufacturer alone. If in the case of an illegal or partially illegal product certain things cannot be said or that end the conversation and any and all assistance. Then it is go straight to the manufacturer time. That is what the thread starter cause themselves, even if any of this is real, which I do have to question.
One reason I have to question the truthfulness of the original message, and all that followed from the thread starter, is they have a "dying mum" and I gave them links to an actual medicinal marijuana site and suggested using Google to find more sites just for medicinal marijuana, sites where far better information could ever be found than by reading breeder descriptions on any seedbank site.
I failed to see a reply saying something like, maybe that is what we should have done and what we will do, thanks for the link, thanks for the advice. Instead it was blast Attitude, and of course me also. If a "dying mum" is involved and time cannot be wasted why waste time and effort to start this thread and then continue to blast Attitude rather than spending that time in a profitable search for legitimate medicinal marijuana and a reputable site to purchase it from? I even offered several alternatives to Attitude, highly rated top quality seed vendors. There was no mention of that offering of assistance, only more venting of the same old things, again.
My mother died of cancer, right here in my home, in the bedroom that I have used since. I was by her bedside when she died and as she died I told her I love her and kissed her on her forehead ... lips were out because of the grotesque contorted shapes her face, mouth and lips were going through at the moment. From the day she was diagnosed I did not waste a single second attempting to find the very best of the very best for her.
(Medicinal marijuana was not included since she was very old school and very religious and thought it a sin on top of being illegal) I was, and to this day are, eternally grateful to every person who even just offered so much as one small single sound piece of advice, and of course also to those who did actually do all they could to help.
If the story is true, and I have my doubts, I have to believe the thread starter went about it all wrong from day one. There are far better medicinal cannabis strains for various problems that cancer patients suffer. The best should have been sought out and if for some reason it was unavailable then the second best and so on should have been tried until the best possible medicinal marijuana was found. Time should not be wasted on venting, if the story is true, which I highly doubt. Even if the Attitude part is true the time for venting would have been after a successful outcome of "mums" illness or after the final result that occurred in my mother's situation. That is when you spend time venting, not when every moment counts. You do not take the time to join a cannabis board, or possibly several cannabis boards, and rage. You spend that time searching for actual medicinal marijuana sites and finding the very best that you will be able to obtain and then provide to the patient as soon as possible.
Look at the freebies. The strain Cole Train is offered in both feminized and regular beans. Evidently is was beyond the thought process of the thread starter that Reserva Privada possibly made an error and shipped all, or some, loose males rather than all loose females (that is if promotional seeds do not come prepackaged instead of packed i breeder packs and are only later removed from their breeder packs.) Reserva Privada was given a free pass for what was certainly their fault. Either the wrong product was delivered or some seeds became mixed at some point or they were packaged wrong. Even though when making feminized seeds almost every bean will turn out feminized, now and then a male will turn up in the bunch. None of those things would in any way be Attitude's fault.
The very same applies to DNA Genetics Rocklock. It comes in both regular and feminized seeds and DNA might have shipped the wrong beans or had some mixed together, accidentally or intentionally, or maybe one or ten males slipped through the feminization process and the thread starter had the bad luck of getting one, but there is no way under the sun that any seed vendor, even ones that produce their own genetics, can 100% guarantee that every bean, or even most beans, in any individual shipment will be precisely what they were supposed to be and perform perfectly when grown.
In the case of a reseller they have no control whatsoever of what they purchase in good faith. All they can do is hope they received what they paid for and if not they do the best they can to rectify the situation within the parameters they have to work within, and if it happens in multiple purchases/shipments to the seed vendor, they have to stop handling that breeder's genetics because they are questionable and the breeder might not be honest. Be it either or both the responsibility is still that of the breeder, the seed producer, not any reseller.
To get back to the point about Attitude not helping. Clearly the thread starter said things that are clearly against the rules and policies of Attitude. The thread starter said; "Upon phoning them about it on monday morning, they just dismissed me saying that its illegal to germinate in the uk and wouldnt help me in any way shape or form." That tells you the thread starter spoke of growing problems, male marijuana seeds rather than female marijuana seeds and or germination, etc. Clearly stated rules and policies were ignored, were broken by the thread starter. That is not Attitude's fault in any way, shape or form.
I have told this several times in threads similar to this. I have had friends who did not get mostly males but had terrible germination ratios, and they are not beginners and did not make errors in the germination process. They contacted Attitude and mentioned germination problems and that was the end of the discussion. Attitude would not say more.
I told my friends to say what you need to say in a way that does not break any of Attitude's rules and policies. I used the TV show "The Sopranos" and the movie "Goodfellas" as an example and said have you noticed how they would talk, even on the phone, about illegal acts of all sorts in a way that could not be used to incriminate anyone?
You just need to know to do and then how to do the same thing. Something like, the novelty items I purchased from your business on 1/1/10 were defective, upon arrival when tried it was clear there was an operational error in 'X' number of them. Then you wait and see what questions Attitude asks about the order and you only give specifics they ask for and not say more.
In my friend's cases they received replacement beans plus extra freebies.
You have to play by their rules or they will take their ball and go home and leave you to attempt to work something out with the breeder, IF you can contact them. They have to do that for legal reasons.
One more reason I have to question the truthfulness of the message, or if nothing else feel the new member is a sock puppet who who under a different username tried to run an 'I hate Attitude and so should all of you too" thread and it flopped is this is the second one, and fairly recent since the first, that said; " youre ripping people off hiding behind the souviner bull shit excuse!!"
Its the same line being used again which strongly points to it having been written by the exact same person as the first time, but now in this case it being a 'new member' who had just registered and whose every first post was an "Attitude sucks and this is why" thread.
I'd say this 'new member' made a similar attempt under a different username and totally fell flat on their face so they created a new user account and then embellished their story even more by tossing in the tugging of the heartstrings stuff.
The similarity to one of the other fairly recent 'Attitude blows' threads, right down to the same claim and phraseology, are far more than enough to make one wonder. The biggest difference is the heartstrings tugging of Attitude not showing any compassion towards an ill woman.
What will we see next? Maybe another brand new user with another re-revised story where they toss in that Attitude hates puppies and is run by Muslim extremists and all profits go to fund terrorism?
I have mentioned the flood of such anti-Attitude threads on various sites. I even posted a message from one, written by a mod, who had become suspicious and found that the thread starter and the one person who backed them up 100% in everything bad they said were one in the same, so they were banned from the site.
While I will purchase feminized beans I prefer regular beans. In a pack of ten regular beans I have never ended up with more than four males and have had as high as nine out of ten females and I know two people who had ten out of ten turn out to be females. Of all the feminized seeds I have purchased I have never received so much as one single pure true male yet. I have had a few hermis, not many, but a few, but not so much as one single real true all balls from the start male. Not one single one.
The numbers of real true pure males in what were supposed to be feminized beans is just way out proportion to anything I have ever experienced, ever heard of from friends or even ever read about online, until now. The odds of that happening are like being struck by lightning and living on the same day you win a $500,000,000.00 lottery. It just isn't going to happen. That is one more reason to question the honesty of the message.
It seems clear that someone, a seedbank that does not like Attitude's professionalism and success and who wants to increase their business, or possibly an employee or two of some such seedbank, or possibly more than one seedbank, are spreading false rumors about Attitude as fast as they can wherever they can in hopes of hurting Attitude's business and increasing their own business.
And before someone asks the inane question of, am I on Attitude's payroll, the answer, again, is no. I use several different seedbanks on a regular basis. Hemp Depot is one, Hemcy is another, PeakSeedsBC is another, though I do not use it much because of their small selection, but I would be saying the exact same things if one of those were being attacked in ways that clearly are at least slightly questionable if not outright highly dubious sounding.
I have no special fondness for Attitude but having been a successful business owner, three times, it really bothers me to read things people who have never run a business in their lives (not meaning you, you said you do own a business, I meant those who start the 'I hate Attitude threads,), and based on their skills of thought, logic, reasoning and communication never will run a business of any kind in their lives, wrongly placing blame, of claiming full responsibility is that of the business only because that is the business they paid their money too, even though when they supposedly asked for help they clearly and adamantly refused to follow the businesses rules and guidelines and insisted upon doing things their way and their way alone. Regardless of all of the above, and much more that could be added, all fault, blame and responsibility is that of Attitude's and Attitude's alone.
No personal responsibility was taken for having gone the wrong route for a true top notch medicinal marijuana strain from the start. No personal responsibility was taken for ignoring Attitude's clearly set rules and policies thus blowing the chance for Attitude to do as they did with my friends, send new beans plus extra freebies. Not so much as one single person from any business that produced the seeds or marketed them to Attitude shares even in the very most minor of ways in the alleged occurrence, not so much as one. It is 100% the fault of Attitude, period, thee end.
That is the final result of what someone evidently, but incorrectly, believes is an extremely clear logical rational and complete thought process. Ignore the facts and blame the easiest one you can find to blame.
If the story is true, not the blame part, but the sequence of events, then I feel very sorry for the one relying on the thread starter for the very best care that could be given.
Even if it is just another hoax to begin with it shows a complete lack of a clear logical rational and complete thought process being behind it.
