nigga what???? Dude pleaze... Im not gonna get pizzy here, but cmon! most of the best breeders on attitude are out of stock e.g mr.nice and dj short etc! Not saying you cant score anything good by any means! I know i had gotten good stuff and cool shirts as well! Personally, I ve never had a problem with them at all! But , dont be coy and act like attitude does not make a pretty penny off Noobie growers! Im not hating here, just saying there are better vendors at way better prices. Furthermore, Im a tester for Gage green! There genetics are fine and many seasoned grower that i know stand by the work. Every breeder must test strains b4 they hit market. And just because they are f2 does not reflect quality in any way! Maybe a little less variation, but that's it. bottom line.... And alphakronik is great, jay roller is a great dude and the genes are there and worthwhile to say the least! Ive been in this line of work for a long time man! I know whats up! there is no need to make pejorative remarks about breeders and fellow forum members who see things different from you! What qualifies you to judge my grows and my genes or breeders that i know personally! I am beyond happy with these said genes! I m not paid to make remarks about this in any way! I volunteer and in return i get great genes...I have spent years building a set up and learning the art and im still learning day by day! And by that logic, I started at the bottom and got my genes through the tude and other vendors. Now I have moved up a few notches and have access to better things. sounds like you are desperately trying to cling to something here! Like I said, im trying to be positive and not incendiary here! Peace dude
Any seedbank, or breeder direct sales, can be out of stock on a product or products occasionally. It is all a part of doing business. Trying to guess the future buying habits of people and then keeping that covered, unless it turns out to be insufficient.
I would never say that Attitude does not earn a fair amount off new growers who do not know which breeders are better than others. But then if not for buyers like that Nirvana would never have survived. A seedbank has one mission. To sell seeds that it purchased for resale. One would not see it's mission as being to educate the uneducated, and reeducate the poorly educated and then direct as many of their customers as possible to say, maybe one quarter of the breeder lines they sell and by doing so cut the sales of others down to zilch. The roughly one quarter of breeders, likely less actually, would be out of stock most of the time until they could increase production, and the other breeders would barely eek out a living or go out of business.
Where caution needs to be taken is when dealing with 'the new kid on the block' seed company/breeder who allegedly out of the blue has the best and hottest line on the market. When you suddenly start seeing that from a small handful of people, it's hype, it's a form of free advertisement for the seed company/breeder, it's someone attempting to create buzz, to stir things up, to get the seed company/breeder talked about.
Most of the time if you check out their line's lineage it's made up of nothing but mutt's of the past reintroduced in almost the same way any number of other breeders have, with the occasional difference of F2s often being used in their crosses, or the lineage they claim for strains often has the word "probably" next to a strain here or there because, well, they don't even know for sure what their strain is. They're guessing at times what it's true lineage is.
Meanwhile there are breeders out there with breeding stables not only made up of numerous strains they created, but also the landrace strains they used to create them with. They have a vast selection of genetics running from pure to multi-strain hybrids.
They are like breeders of high quality dogs, while the stables of the new-era breeders, made up of various strains created by others, purchased the same way any typical grower would, make them, in comparison, the equivalent to a puppy mill.
The 'new kid on the block' seed company/breeder will have a small stable, seldom if ever any pure strains will be found, as in real true pure landrace strains. Their stables are mostly made up of crosses made by other breeders to then make more crosses or to S1 them and either use the same name and claim it is their own version or just rename it.
And as previously mentioned, some are rather fond of F2s, even though you end up with more different phenotypes than Connie Hamzy had dick in her heyday, and they keep using it, or them, in most of their crosses. Oddly though, many see them as up and coming superstars rather than the pollen chuckers they are.
You can believe using F2s doesn't decrease quality if you really want and need to believe it, that or you have a very broad and expansive definition of what quality actually is. If someone who can and does keep mother plants grows out a two or three packs of some strain made with an F2, or more, out of as many plants as they will have, and as many different phenotypes as they will have, they will likely find one or even two good mothers, and from them be able to grow a quality strain for as long as they can keep their mother plant living.
But the person who can't keep mothers and has to grow from seed could do the exact same thing and end up with myriad different phenotypes, some not good at all, and just like the person who found the mothers, find one or two good plants. That's one or two honestly good plants out of several packs of seeds. To them, that would not define quality.
Using an F2 you do not know what positive or negative trait or traits will be passed on or in what amounts. There are now a larger number of allele capable of being passed on, rather than another, and there is always the chance for a mutant allele or alleles, ones containing modified genetic information that would be different from anything that had 'shown it's face' yet. F2s are unstable and they inject a volatility that is not a positive.
What a quality breeder would do if they had one or more good pairs of F2s, real quality plants, true representations of the strain they came from, they would keep picking the best plants and breed them back to themselves and keep doing that and you harden/strengthen the positive traits and minimize and control the negative traits and by the time you get to about an F7 or F8 you are getting pretty close to being as stable as a landrace strain ... almost. Then would be the time to use that strain in a cross, when it had been stabilized, when you can have a lot more faith in what it will do when it comes to both breeder goals/aims and consistency for growers, which equates to quality.
Sure, now and then someone will get lucky and get mostly good plants even though F2s were used. But it's like Vegas, the odds are against you and the longer and longer you try, the more gambles you make, the less you have to show for it.
It has reached a point where they are so many mid-grade breeders and pollen chuckers who do not deserve to be called a breeder that almost every day someone new looks at the mutt factory cranking out garbage by the ton and thinks to themselves, there's got to be at least fifty, seventy-five or maybe way more breeders out there right now that don't know anything about breeding ....... so one more won't hurt ........... and the next thing you know he's 'the new kid on the block' hotshot 'breeder,' with his small stable of mutts to work with.
Congratulations about being a tester for Gage Green Genetics. For years I have turned down offers to be a tester for various newer breeders along with turning down their offer to endorse their product and push it on sites like this for in return they said they would keep me overly supplied with anything in their line. I will say if something is good or if something is not, but that is me talking for me, talking from experience. But one thing I will not so is I will not pimp for anyone. I can't be bought for a handful of Jack's Magic Beans and the promise of many more to come in the future, that is for as long as I am their head cheerleader.
That might be your bag ....... but it's not mine.
Where you said, "Every breeder must test strains b4 they hit market," I would be curious what such a test or various tests are made and what it takes to achieving a passing mark? Based on the amount of swill that has been released in the last few years I would say for a strain to get a passing mark from a new-era breeder would be about as difficult as getting a passing grade in the U.S. public school system, where the idea is keep 'em movin' an get'em out, pass them on to someone else, but our level of graduates remains high so that makes us look good, at least. But of course it doesn't matter if the kid gets home and says mom, I graduated from high school, look, here's my diploma ........... quick, read it to me mom, what does it say?
That is probably about how well some of the new-era breeders were educated and what is responsible for their delusion that they believe that they actually have what it takes to one day be worthy of being called a breeder.
That would only work if you are having germination problems.
Link--->
sickening!
