Autoflowering clock - When soaking on water / When sprouting ??

Metacanna

Metacanna

Well-Known Member
Hey,

When does the internal clock of an autoflowering strain is triggered? When does it start counting, when soaking on water or only after sprouting?

The strain I'm used to grow usually starts flowering on the 23th - 25th day (day 1, soak on water), so I do my best to have a plant with a nice structure when reaching this point. Germination occurs in 3 days.

However, this time germination took 6 days. Today, (grow day 19 ) I looked into some pictures from my others grows and I found my plants are lagging a lot when comparing growth since sprouting. Conditions are similar, I don't see any reason for this lag, apart from the fact they germinated 3 days later than normal.

My theory: Plants are already preparing for flowering and stopped putting energy in veg since their clocks are reaching the mark. This would explain why they are smaller. Also, this would be in line with the theory that autoflowering plants have their clocked triggered when seeds soak and not when sprouting.

Let me know your thoughts / knowledge on this.

Thanks
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
It begins ticking the day the seed pops.....
Certain feeding practices may slow it or speed it ,,, a little.
 
vostok

vostok

Well-Known Member
autos are on the clock from the time they germ

but in truth you have 2.-3 weeks which you can mess with ...grafting, cloning, potting up, messing with,.etc
 
dynospec

dynospec

Well-Known Member
Its not like plants can count, and keep time right? haha. Theres not really a set time that the plant will wait before it flowers, it is dependent on many variables. Autos are influenced by container size and nutrition, and other environmental factors much like photo plants. While photos rely on light/dark cycles to determine when they flower, while autos rely on nutrition and size of container. The plant wont want to grow any more than the root system can handle, and it directly correlates to when the flowering phase will begin. Thats not to say that time isnt a factor, but it isnt the only thing that determines it.

Use a deeper pot than usual, and keep the soil very fertile. I test soil each month for autos, and find that this allows me to know exactly what to add and when so that Im not learning of deficiency or toxicity until the plants showing signs of it all the time. An autoflower plant will grow to the size of its container, alot of the time. So you can theoretically keep an auto in veg for quite a bit longer than is usually considered possible. That said I feel like it would make more sense to veg photo plants longer if a long veg is what youre trying to achieve.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
dynospec said:
Its not like plants can count, and keep time right? haha. Theres not really a set time that the plant will wait before it flowers, it is dependent on many variables. Autos are influenced by container size and nutrition, and other environmental factors much like photo plants. While photos rely on light/dark cycles to determine when they flower, while autos rely on nutrition and size of container. The plant wont want to grow any more than the root system can handle, and it directly correlates to when the flowering phase will begin. Thats not to say that time isnt a factor, but it isnt the only thing that determines it.

Use a deeper pot than usual, and keep the soil very fertile. I test soil each month for autos, and find that this allows me to know exactly what to add and when so that Im not learning of deficiency or toxicity until the plants showing signs of it all the time. An autoflower plant will grow to the size of its container, alot of the time. So you can theoretically keep an auto in veg for quite a bit longer than is usually considered possible. That said I feel like it would make more sense to veg photo plants longer if a long veg is what youre trying to achieve.
Click to expand...
To a point, your correct! True about the bigger container, a bit......Outdoor Auto's get the biggest as per size potential. There are "full" size auto breeds. Iranian Auto from Greenthumb is one......Ticking does start at pop still.
 
Metacanna

Metacanna

Well-Known Member
Dynospec, based on my previous grows, where I used always the same strain in different sets the flowering period has started systematically on the 23th-25th day. I have done this strain outdoors, indoors, small pots, big pots, rich soil, poor soil, full sunshine, CFL/Led light. So, I extrapolated from this observations, that in fact autos can count and keep time, let's say, keep an internal clock.

When you say autos depend also on environmental factors it kinda intrigues me.

The reason why I started questioning what I thought I already knew, is based on this:

P1030552.JPG P1030551.JPG

21th day and they look this ridiculous small. They hadn't show a single deficiency or had any accident. In this same set, by now they usually are three times bigger.

However, there are 3 changes in this grow comparing to the last one, that I thought would have minor impact:
- Fertilizer: This time I'm using organic fertilizer, last time was inorganic/synthetic
- The pot is bigger, 3L instead of 2L, BUT, 2inches shallower and wider.
- Sprouting occurred 3 days later than usual because temperature was lower than normal.

From what you have said before, I would say that the pot I'm using now is the cause for this fucked up pseudo-grow.

P1030494.JPG (14th day)

I know cannabis grow better in deep containers but my grow space is kinda specific.

Another note: Plants stopped growing and are flowering sooner than normal... So...

Thanks for your input.
 
Strocat

Strocat

Well-Known Member
What I always try to do with autos is keep them in perfect health with no issues at all for 21-28 days (when they start flowering) ... You want to get the most explosive upward and outward growth you can get before they start to flower.. which can be done.

The struggle is.. you want to start in finishing pot which means if you stick a seed in 5 gallons of soil its gonna take a little longer to start. but I did that last time and ended with 88 grams dry.

I have found out though.. I think the very best container size for autos in soil is 5 gallons.. some people say its overkill but I got the very best yield ever by using 5 gallons of soil. ohh btw it wasnt roots organic soil or ocean forest either.. I used cheap-o lowes organic potting mix brand called Harvest .. to that I added 40% perlite,dolomite lime, black kow compost cow manure,bone meal.

Only nutrient I ever fed that auto was fox farm tiger bloom... thats it.. and I got 88 grams dry of buds.
 
Strocat

Strocat

Well-Known Member
Ohhh btw brother.. never ever ever EVER.. start a bunch of seedlings in one container of soil... 3 of those 4 plants will fight each other for roots and usually 3 die.

if you put one germ'd seed into 5 gallons of soil those plants could be 3 times the size right now.

Seriously though brother for next time... only do 1 plant per container even if only growing seedlings. you never wanna transplant autos.. only thing that happens is you stunt growth and get less yield.


You want to not stress an auto at all... germinate in final container (start in 5 gallon finish in 5 gallon) I'm tellin ya from experience trying to help. My first 7 grows were all auto's and I learned alot about them.


You do want a deeper pot too.. I've found when autos taproot hits bottom they start flowering.

I used a 6.5 gallon beer making bucket to grow in last time.. filled to 5 gallon mark and it worked perfect.. there was about 18 inches on soil depth and maybe thats how i got 88 grams dry,

Ohhh the strain was Transiberian... You should check out Auto Seeds.. they only make autos and their transiberian/mig-29/purple cheese strains are all god damned fantastic
 
Metacanna

Metacanna

Well-Known Member
I usually start 3 or 4 seeds at once in the final container, I don't transplant autos. When they start flowering I sort out the males and keep the girls only. Two plants grow fine side by side.
I can't have multiple containers because my grow space is this, a 6 gallon trash bin:

P1030493.JPG

I know it works because I have had consecutive results in this set. They don't grow much, but hey, 85W DIY chinese led strips.

WP_20151117_004.jpg

Sorry to contradict you, but if you put 4 seeds side by side, all the plants will grow till maturity. Thing is they will compete for space, food and light, so the growth will be compromised. Same will happen with any kind of plant.
 
Strocat

Strocat

Well-Known Member
Metacanna said:
I usually start 3 or 4 seeds at once in the final container, I don't transplant autos. When they start flowering I sort out the males and keep the girls only. Two plants grow fine side by side.
I can't have multiple containers because my grow space is this, a 6 gallon trash bin:

View attachment 3891540

I know it works because I have had consecutive results in this set. They don't grow much, but hey, 85W DIY chinese led strips.

View attachment 3891545

Sorry to contradict you, but if you put 4 seeds side by side, all the plants will grow till maturity. Thing is they will compete for space, food and light, so the growth will be compromised. Same will happen with any kind of plant.
Click to expand...

no no you're fine. i didn't know you were dealing with males as i only use fem auto seeds. Why not just do one auto in 5 gallons and get one decent auto that finished at 2.5-3 feet tall?

85 actual watt led isnt bad either. hell the light i used forever was 93 actual watt ufo

I do like that trash can u have thats cool as hell. like a space bucket kinda but with side lighting
 
Metacanna

Metacanna

Well-Known Member
Well, if I were aiming for a plant that size I would go photo instead of auto. My bin is 1.5 feet tall, there's no way I could fit a plant that tall in there.

The good part is I can carry my grow with me wherever I go :)

P1030490.JPG

Next time I might use photo strains, so I won't run the risk of ending with a stunted plant. This way I will be able to let here develop a nice struture before flowering, something I can't control with autos.
I will let autos grow wild in my backyard when Springs arrives, they love the sunshine of southern Europe.
 
dynospec

dynospec

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
To a point, your correct! True about the bigger container, a bit......Outdoor Auto's get the biggest as per size potential. There are "full" size auto breeds. Iranian Auto from Greenthumb is one......Ticking does start at pop still.
Click to expand...
haha trying to dumb it down, and open eyes to the idea that theres not an exact time that autos follow :)
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Metacanna said:
Dynospec, based on my previous grows, where I used always the same strain in different sets the flowering period has started systematically on the 23th-25th day. I have done this strain outdoors, indoors, small pots, big pots, rich soil, poor soil, full sunshine, CFL/Led light. So, I extrapolated from this observations, that in fact autos can count and keep time, let's say, keep an internal clock.

When you say autos depend also on environmental factors it kinda intrigues me.

The reason why I started questioning what I thought I already knew, is based on this:

View attachment 3891370 View attachment 3891386

21th day and they look this ridiculous small. They hadn't show a single deficiency or had any accident. In this same set, by now they usually are three times bigger.

However, there are 3 changes in this grow comparing to the last one, that I thought would have minor impact:
- Fertilizer: This time I'm using organic fertilizer, last time was inorganic/synthetic
- The pot is bigger, 3L instead of 2L, BUT, 2inches shallower and wider.
- Sprouting occurred 3 days later than usual because temperature was lower than normal.

From what you have said before, I would say that the pot I'm using now is the cause for this fucked up pseudo-grow.

View attachment 3891390 (14th day)

I know cannabis grow better in deep containers but my grow space is kinda specific.

Another note: Plants stopped growing and are flowering sooner than normal... So...

Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...
I've found that it can be a strain thing and I've seen as much as a 5-7 day differential in onset by a 1 gallon plant to an outside plant, freely in the ground.....Hmm.. could be a ground temp difference in early growth....

NICE post.
 
Metacanna

Metacanna

Well-Known Member
Yeah, my conclusion from this grow plus your replies is exactly that, pot size really matters when growing autos. More precisely the depth of the pot is the key.
I stress that in this grow I'm using a larger pot than what I'm used to use, still I ended with stunted plants. In this case it's not the total capacity of the pot that matters but the depth. The pot I'm using now has more capacity but it's very shallow. ***k.
 
cawolves

cawolves

Well-Known Member
Metacanna said:
I usually start 3 or 4 seeds at once in the final container, I don't transplant autos. When they start flowering I sort out the males and keep the girls only. Two plants grow fine side by side.
I can't have multiple containers because my grow space is this, a 6 gallon trash bin:

View attachment 3891540

I know it works because I have had consecutive results in this set. They don't grow much, but hey, 85W DIY chinese led strips.

View attachment 3891545

Sorry to contradict you, but if you put 4 seeds side by side, all the plants will grow till maturity. Thing is they will compete for space, food and light, so the growth will be compromised. Same will happen with any kind of plant.
Click to expand...
The other issue with multiple plants in one pot is if you remove the males by cutting, the dead roots are there still mucking things up.
 
Metacanna

Metacanna

Well-Known Member
I don't know how problematic that can be.
Once males are cut the roots immediately start decaying allowing the remaining plants to take over.

I would say growth is compromised a little by the males root mass, how significant that is I would like to know.
 
TurboTokes

TurboTokes

Well-Known Member
Ive tried 3 plants in a 7 gallon fabric pot, but instead of making them fight, I split the container into 3 with plastic sheet, each plant getting atleast 2 gallons to start, and the fabric pot gives excellent result in that small space, roots all the way to the bottom. And I aswell had to sort a male out of that pot, simply removed the male and rootball, removed his slice of the plastic divider, and the other 2 plants in the pot had a little more wiggle room, But would have been fine if all 3 were fem, etc.

Props on the micro grow!
 
H

harris hawk

Well-Known Member
Metacanna said:
Hey,

When does the internal clock of an autoflowering strain is triggered? When does it start counting, when soaking on water or only after sprouting?

The strain I'm used to grow usually starts flowering on the 23th - 25th day (day 1, soak on water), so I do my best to have a plant with a nice structure when reaching this point. Germination occurs in 3 days.

However, this time germination took 6 days. Today, (grow day 19 ) I looked into some pictures from my others grows and I found my plants are lagging a lot when comparing growth since sprouting. Conditions are similar, I don't see any reason for this lag, apart from the fact they germinated 3 days later than normal.

My theory: Plants are already preparing for flowering and stopped putting energy in veg since their clocks are reaching the mark. This would explain why they are smaller. Also, this would be in line with the theory that autoflowering plants have their clocked triggered when seeds soak and not when sprouting.

Let me know your thoughts / knowledge on this.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Here is the auto growth cycle:

Weeks 1-3 = vegation stage (included are germination and seedling stages of growth)
Weeks 4-10 = flower stage

use specific lighting and nutrients in each stage of growth. Genetics is the determining factor in growth
 
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