Babies drooping with 600W Lighting

SensiHerb said:

if you arent watering to the point where there is no run-off at the bottom i would say definitely water MORE, but less often. 10% of the water you use should run off

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I just watered yesterday with run off and haven't watered today and it doesn't look like i will need to until maybe friday

mytalizas32 said:

Ok, Thanks Turm. I'll go easy on the watering and get some AC in the room.

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. May I suggest an alternative ventilation scenario? Air conditioning units used for cooling grow rooms defeat or hinder any effort to eliminate odors leaking out of the room due to the impossibility of creating a negative air pressure that would prevent odors from leaking out (either with or without a carbon scrubber). Also, it is much more efficient to cool such a room with a centrifugal blower/carbon filter/silencer combination. By using a centrifugal blower/extractor you can have the air constantly replenished which is key for good plant growth. Also, when someone shows me a room with co2 that works to improve flowering weight and also doesn't have odor leakage problems Ill climb to the top of the Empire State Building with nothing but a few aquarium heater suction cups. Better still, when you ask proponents of the co2/ac unit ventilation scenario how to control odors getting out, they suggest a carbon scrubber in the room!! With a little bit of reading you will learn that carbon removes everything from the air, including co2. Air extraction will always work better than an ac unit / co2 combo unless the grow room is super tiny.

contraptionated said:

. May I suggest an alternative ventilation scenario? Air conditioning units used for cooling grow rooms defeat or hinder any effort to eliminate odors leaking out of the room due to the impossibility of creating a negative air pressure that would prevent odors from leaking out (either with or without a carbon scrubber). Also, it is much more efficient to cool such a room with a centrifugal blower/carbon filter/silencer combination. By using a centrifugal blower/extractor you can have the air constantly replenished which is key for good plant growth. Also, when someone shows me a room with co2 that works to improve flowering weight and also doesn't have odor leakage problems Ill climb to the top of the Empire State Building with nothing but a few aquarium heater suction cups. Better still, when you ask proponents of the co2/ac unit ventilation scenario how to control odors getting out, they suggest a carbon scrubber in the room!! With a little bit of reading you will learn that carbon removes everything from the air, including co2. Air extraction will always work better than an ac unit / co2 combo unless the grow room is super tiny.

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Well I've already had a carbon scrubber in the room taking air out of the room before the AC was installed, but still the same issue. It really doesn't seem like a problem with the ventilation because I just upped the ballast to 75% last night, and sure enough the fan leaves are curling and drooping. It really seems like light shock when you first transplant the babies under a stronger light. What im wondering is, how do the 4x4ft room guys who uses 600watts avoid this issue.

Id say your root system is not ready for the light didnt look at the pics, curl up could b ph problem but I think since it matters where the light is points to roots not being large enough and plant is not taking in enough moisture compared to whats escaping or being used.

sourpuss said:

Id say your root system is not ready for the light didnt look at the pics, curl up could b ph problem but I think since it matters where the light is points to roots not being large enough and plant is not taking in enough moisture compared to whats escaping or being used.

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I'd say that's a great possibility. How long do u think i should allow the roots to settle in. I'ts been 3 weeks and 2 days since i transplanted them... If this is really the case.. then do you think i should do 50% for a few more days, then slowly up the power?

mytalizas32 said:

View attachment 2642948View attachment 2642949 So I lowered the heat down and the fan leaves are still doing this during the last few hours of the light cycle. Could it be that I dont have enough holes drilled on the bottom for excess water? But would that explain why the leaves are curling up like that? Are the lights not supposed to be directly leveled with the plants? Because if it's the light causing the fan leaves to curl up and dry up, and if I raise it higher above the plant level, how would the plant get the full light? Wouldn't it defeat the entire purpose of a Vertical light?

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That tip curling in the second photo is definitely heat stress. See how it does it right at the tips of the leaves? They're closest to the light. Either your young plants are too close, or your floor fan isn't doing its job properly.

As for your plants "drooping", the most obvious answer is it is completely normal. Your plants are tilting their leaves towards the light source - which happens to be vertical - and so this gives the appearance of the plants "drooping". My plants do it all the time.

The fact your plants stop doing this when you raise the light is proof: leaves on any plant will follow the sun as it moves across the horizon during the day to mazimise photosynthesis. Some leaves will fold up or actually face away from the sun if it gets too strong (hot) as a preservation mechanism. But in your case the leaves are simply following the light.

Plants are living organisms that respond to stimuli. They react to all kinds of things. The real art to growing is being able to read your plants to see what they are telling you.

Prawn Connery said:

That tip curling in the second photo is definitely heat stress. See how it does it right at the tips of the leaves? They're closest to the light. Either your young plants are too close, or your floor fan isn't doing its job properly.

As for your plants "drooping", the most obvious answer is it is completely normal. Your plants are tilting their leaves towards the light source - which happens to be vertical - and so this gives the appearance of the plants "drooping". My plants do it all the time.

The fact your plants stop doing this when you raise the light is proof: leaves on any plant will follow the sun as it moves across the horizon during the day to mazimise photosynthesis. Some leaves will fold up or actually face away from the sun if it gets too strong (hot) as a preservation mechanism. But in your case the leaves are simply following the light.

Plants are living organisms that respond to stimuli. They react to all kinds of things. The real art to growing is being able to read your plants to see what they are telling you.

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Thanks for all the info. For the curling, that happened before I put in a stong fan, so ive got that problem out of the way.

The point you made about the fan leaves "drooping" is that they are following the light is totally valid and I understand your explanation. My question would then be, if it is indeed following the light, is it normal for the fan leaf stem to be arched as it would be arched when drooping? The overall state of the plant I would best explain it is that it looks weak and frail. Ill go ahead and lower it again and take more pictures to monitor.

As I'm not in your grow room, I can't be 100% sure. What I do know is that classic leaf drooping is a symptom of water stress - either underwatering or overwatering.

Leaves also droop during the dark period when they are not photosynthesising.

And then there is the plant's response to stimuli - leaves following a light source (either "standing up" to reach an overhead light, or turning towards a side-on light).

Underwatering is easy to tell, as the leaves not only droop, but appear paper-thin. This is because there is less water in the plant, so there is less hydraulic (hydrostatic) pressure in the stems (which cause the leaves to droop), while the leaves themselves will feel thinner because there is less water in the cell membranes.

Overwatering shows similar symptoms, but the leaves are normal thickness, or slightly thicker, as they have plenty of water in the cell membranes, which weigh the leaves down (normal water transfer inside the plant can't happen because the roots are starved of oxygen and not functioning properly as they begin to die off). The plant becomes "waterlogged" - for want of a better term.

Plants droop during the dark period because they are not photosynthesising - they are respiring. During photosynthesis, plants convert sunlight into sugars using water and carbon dioxide. During the dark period, they use oxygen to convert those sugars into energy. Photosynthesis, therefore, requires light - which is why the leaves turn towards any light source (obviously) - and water - which is why the leaves are "perky", because there is a lot of hydrostatic pressure, or water movement, inside the plant.

During the dark period, there is less hydrostatic pressure (no photosynthesis), and so the leaves "droop" - this is perfectly normal. It is reasoned that most plants also "droop" at night because water (moisture/humidity/rain etc) drips off the leaves and prevents mold and other pathogens from taking hold.

Which brings us back to your particular "drooping" leaves. As I said earlier, if your plants "droop" when the light is next to them, yet point upwards when you raise the light, then this indicates they are healthy and simply following light-sourced stimuli to better photosynthesise.

Apart from a bit of leaf-tip stress, your plants look healthy to me - no signs of water stress - so in my opinion, my first explanation is the most likely.

Yes, it is normal for the leaf stems to arch over, as they are attached to the main stem at an angle. Your plants look pretty good in your most recent photos. You may have been overwatering them a bit when they were smaller. With soil, you want your pots to dry out a bit in-between waterings. Feel the weight of your pots - that will tell you when they have dried out sufficiently for another watering.

Also, resist the temptation to overfeed your plants, as overfertilising burns/kills more seedlings and plants than anything else you are likely to see on any cannaboard. I'd list it as the #1 mistake newbs and even experienced growers make. Less is more when growing - you'd be surprised how little nutrient plants need (they get most of their energy from the sun).

Prawn Connery said:

Yes, it is normal for the leaf stems to arch over, as they are attached to the main stem at an angle. Your plants look pretty good in your most recent photos. You may have been overwatering them a bit when they were smaller. With soil, you want your pots to dry out a bit in-between waterings. Feel the weight of your pots - that will tell you when they have dried out sufficiently for another watering.

Also, resist the temptation to overfeed your plants, as overfertilising burns/kills more seedlings and plants than anything else you are likely to see on any cannaboard. I'd list it as the #1 mistake newbs and even experienced growers make. Less is more when growing - you'd be surprised how little nutrient plants need (they get most of their energy from the sun).

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Thanks Prawn for the in depth explanation. I will keep in mind what youve said. I'll be taking some more pictures today to show you it's progress.

This fan leaf is so big...

And it looks like i have spidermites. I have little webs on the fan leaves and picked this bad boy off to take a picture.

looking good

I dont know what it is, but i no longer have this drooping problem. It could possibly be the overwatering. I stopped watering every 2 days and watered the 4th day. Either that, or the plant is stronger now and is able to take the light power like I mentioned regarding the 1000 watt light and easing it in.

You need to get on to those spider mites. If they're already at the web-spinning stage, they will quickly take hold.

We use Eco Oil in Australia - if you can find something similar in your part of the world, it is the safest and most effective organic treatment against spider mites. It also works on aphids and fungus gnat larvae (soil/coco treatment). White Oil (petroleum-based) also works, but it is very harsh on your plants and should never be used when grow-room temps are higher than 30C, as you will burn your plants. Eco Oil is much gentler on plants, and deadly effective against mites.

Yes kill those spider mites or you will have a ruined harvest if it even gets there

I highly recommend coco instead of soil, just use a little perlite with it anf it has advantages for the newbie.

Hey guys, I bought this Vapona Bug Strip that I placed inside the room and it killed all of the spider mites without a fight. I've used it before when my plants were infected with Root Aphids and it worked well then, still works well now with Spider Mites.

Good to know. Spider mites r serious fukers