Bad germination/veg problems

Hello,

I started a dwc led grow in the start of this month.
First bought 18seeds. But alot failed so bought another 18ones.
Though .. Alot seem to fail too.

Short explenation :

For germination i use cotton for make up stuff.
I have a big container filled with water & an aquariumheater. This to maintain a very humid place for germination. They almost all come out this way.
After i see a root of 2cm. I place it in a jiffy.

About the jiffy set up
I use RO water mixed with tap water. This is ph'ed to 5.8-6.3
Ppm = 0.2 EC
Now alot die when doing this. Only some of them survive ( the ones that had the biggest root in the cotton)
I place them with the seed above the surface.
First i drown the jiffy without seed in the water, then i press on it to let the excess water flow away.
Afterwards i place them in the tent. Temperature is around 24°C there.
I bought chinese leds but heard they perform bad so bought a spectrabox and 2other better leds.
Those are 50cm above the seeds.

Because of the temperature i need to water the jiffy's once or twice a day.
Now the seeds that fail;
Their stems are getting smaller & tinner. Like they are shrinking..
Also they turn brown/purple .. ( looks like rot )
So i maybe give them to much water ? somethimes i watered them right on the seed which was just above the jiffy surface .. Maybe thats the problem for the smaller ones..? ( because the bigger ones were already above the surface)

Now the older plants also don't look very healthy tbh.
Stems are purple. Leaves are droopy.
Very Very slow growth in my eyes..






The one above in the right was without jiffy , just plain in the hydroton. That one is shrinking away.. The other one in the right is doing the best. But also droopy. ( his roots are in the water and look plain white , 3small roots)
The one in the middle had his seed stuck so had a very very slow growth. Seems to be getting better with that one though.


This was the biggest and best one but the growth stopped. Got new leaves but very small ones and this one is drooping away too.

They all have a purple stem , except for the 2 ones that are doing fairly 'good'

I gave some extra water today from the tap + root stim + hydro A +B because i'm thinking of a nutrient deficiency. (especially because the ppm is so low in my system ) But i didn't want to overfeed in the beginning and start like it should.


Thing is , when i grew an autoflower outside last year. Also 2 of them had problems and died because deseases. So maybe water/ overwattering in the beginning ? Or.. i have no clue.
I try to make better pictures when the leds are off.

Your germ issues sound like damping off. High humidity is a perfect breeding ground for damping off to occur.

"Their stems are getting smaller & tinner. Like they are shrinking..
Also they turn brown/purple .. ( looks like rot )"

When you say that it sounds like you are over watering and the seedlings are damping off. You can try a sprinkle of cinnamon on top of your jiffy. Cinnamon has antifungal properties. Just don't use too much.

Your temp at 24°c sounds alright.

Do you have a humidity dome over them?

And there is no need to feed them anything for at least 3 weeks. The seed itself has everything that the plant needs. And when you do start feeding, start really light like 1/4 strength

Well i have been thinking too on damping off, that's why i tried watering them from beneath.
Thing is those jiffy's dry out really really fast..
After some hours they really get dry dry and i don't want to risk that the roots are fully dry. Altough dry is better then wet afcorse
I have no humidity dome nope
I started feeding with 1/10th of what they recommend

Let them dry what you are doing is not working, so...

Ow okay , now i get the point of a humidity dome.
All will stay moist because of the condensation.
I'll try that.

censorship said:

Ow okay , now i get the point of a humidity dome.
All will stay moist because of the condensation.
I'll try that.

Click to expand...

No don't use a humidity dome on seedlings they will droop

censorship said:

Ow okay , now i get the point of a humidity dome.
All will stay moist because of the condensation.
I'll try that.

Click to expand...

Dome = high humidity = damping off = death

Hmm , i've read on the internet those seedlings liked that humidity .. ( 60-70%)
Ok then indeed trying to get them a bit dryer.

censorship said:

Hmm , i've read on the internet those seedlings liked that humidity .. ( 60-70%)
Ok then indeed trying to get them a bit dryer.

Click to expand...

Domes give you 100% humidity.

When seedling are overwatered in the early stage, they carry the bad effects on to the veg state. Also if you don't even see the side effects immediately ?
Thing is with dwc they are always wet.. But then afcorse only when the roots are established.

censorship said:

I place them with the seed above the surface.

Click to expand...

Doing this will ensure that you have continued issues of seed pod sticking to the unfolded cotyledons. If the seed is planted under the surface and the taproot has to pull it to the surface...then they usually shed the pods.

With a hydro setup, I personally feel rockwool might be a better choice. I like the round split ones so you can position the seed exactly where you want it.
JD

JohnDee said:

Doing this will ensure that you have continued issues of seed pod sticking to the unfolded cotyledons. If the seed is planted under the surface and the taproot has to pull it to the surface...then they usually shed the pods.

With a hydro setup, I personally feel rockwool might be a better choice. I like the round split ones so you can position the seed exactly where you want it.
JD

Click to expand...

So first germination in cotton
then placing underneath surface in jiffy ?( without light or with light ?)

Yes my aim was rockwool but that is even more difficult i've read.. Also not possible to find in the stores in my country

censorship said:

So first germination in cotton
then placing underneath surface in jiffy ?( without light or with light ?)

Yes my aim was rockwool but that is even more difficult i've read.. Also not possible to find in the stores in my country

Click to expand...

try planting your seeds direct into damp warm jiffies approx 1/4"-1/3" deep, no need to pre-germinate in towels or cotton, also try using a good brand mycorrhyzal/trichodermal powder which will help thwart pythium/botrytis etc mixed with your water during the seeding stage from scratch, been raising seeds in jiffies for over 30yrs with 99% success rate using those methods, its a fine balance between having the jiffies too wet constantly, they must dry out a least 60-70% between waterings, again mychorrizae with every watering, eventually you will get the feel of when they need watering, i test the weight by lifting the seed tray with the jiffies so i know how wet or dry they are

censorship said:

So first germination in cotton
then placing underneath surface in jiffy ?( without light or with light ?)

Yes my aim was rockwool but that is even more difficult i've read.. Also not possible to find in the stores in my country

Click to expand...

With fresh seeds I feel direct burial is best.

Little seedlings can get lost in hydroton...so I understand the need for the peat puck. At least plant them earlier. Once seed cracks. And yes, under the surface...maybe middle of the peat puck. I understand you're operating with limited accessibility.
JD

Thanks for the input guys !
Using the weight of the jiffy's is indeed a fine method to know how much water is inside ! Will try to use this in the future.
Also will try your beneficial bacteria!

Still it feels a bit messed up in my head.
I did grows in the past under hps lights and those went perfectly. Super dense buds with great smell.
This attempt just keeps on failing. Altough i won't give up and try to master this culture


For me this is Wet -> a bit to wet.
But it's even wet.( the water is in all the whole jiffy)
It looks like this for me in the beginning when i just lay the jiffy's in water and squeeze them out.


When i water them , after 4hours they look again like the middle one. (even more dry)
When i squeeze it , no water comes out and it feels very dry.
So that's why i don't get the overwatering part.. I really am precausius with the water.
And then afcorse i water them a bit , not much , even less then the other picture.





Also i tried to germinate them directly in the jiffy's; But result was very bad.
(even tough i managed to do this in the past perfectly ..)
I'm still thinking it also could be something with the water.

censorship said:

Thanks for the input guys !
Using the weight of the jiffy's is indeed a fine method to know how much water is inside ! Will try to use this in the future.
Also will try your beneficial bacteria!

Still it feels a bit messed up in my head.
I did grows in the past under hps lights and those went perfectly. Super dense buds with great smell.
This attempt just keeps on failing. Altough i won't give up and try to master this culture

For me this is Wet -> a bit to wet.
But it's even wet.( the water is in all the whole jiffy)
It looks like this for me in the beginning when i just lay the jiffy's in water and squeeze them out.

When i water them , after 4hours they look again like the middle one. (even more dry)
When i squeeze it , no water comes out and it feels very dry.
So that's why i don't get the overwatering part.. I really am precausius with the water.
And then afcorse i water them a bit , not much , even less then the other picture.





Also i tried to germinate them directly in the jiffy's; But result was very bad.
(even tough i managed to do this in the past perfectly ..)
I'm still thinking it also could be something with the water.

Click to expand...

no need to squeeze them out, i soak mine fully with just the stem and upper leaves out of the water for 2-3 minutes, in other words fully soaked, no squeezing of water out, are your jiffies peat or coco? i use only peat jiffies, have found the coco jiffies not good all the time, also are the seeds you are growing out now the same type when you had successful grows? some seed types have more problems than others

also watch out for high humidity as mentioned by others here, that will cause pythium etc, you really just need the jiffies themselves to be warm for seeds to germinate, a heating mat or electric blanket can help there

greencropper said:

no need to squeeze them out

Click to expand...

My jiffy's stay damp for 2 to 3 days (no squeezing) You must be really squeezing them. Try maybe a good wrist flick like guys do with rockwool.

Also make sure you give them a good initial soak to be sure they're wet all the way through. Don't get discouraged...there's lots of details to this endeavor.
Cheers,
JD

I've been trying different strains now to see differences .. ( think in total i have 6strains now) -> other strains then in the past + also bought from different suppliers
Anyway , in the beginning i soak them untill them are fully swollen and i feel no hard parts.
Then i squeeze a bit
Then seedlings in it.

Then in the tent
After one day the jiffy's are dry so i need to water them.
Maybe i wait to long to water them because the water isn't directly going in -> first it stays on top of the jiffy and after a while it get soaked in it. ( because very dry on top fast)
I water them with a pipet.

I even have 2 different jiffy's packages. Will check if coco or peat.

PH still 6.5
Ec also still the same.

But my plants start hanging more and more..
Maybe they need some more time because they are just awake.