Bad News About LED vs HPS

Los Reefersaurus

Los Reefersaurus

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
What I'm trying now is HPS with a green reducing filter gel. HPS has way too much green/yellow. I'm using this 1/2 minus green type, made a half circle shape around the bottom of the bulb several inches away, with space all around it for air to go through by hanging it from it's corners with clear tape. No sign of melting. It's just a 150w.

What you find is that it looks dimmer, because less green is reflected from the plants, but when you stick your hand in you can feel the light energy is intense. Kind of like purple grow lights look dim. I also have a few LED "lightbulbs" in there to fill in some extra wattage. The plants are looking like they prefer it so far, only a few days. The filter does cut the light by about 30% though. Mine was too bright before anyway. Seems about right now. These gels are made for going on hot spotlights so it's not a big safety hazard or anything, as long as there's a few inches space from the bulb and it's not on top of it where most of the heat goes. Under the bulb, no issues.

Image from http://www.musson.com/sales/color-gels-filters/color-correction/minus-green/cinegel-3313-tough-1-2-minusgreen.html

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these filters will fade alot quicker that you think they will , so have a roll ready to sub in. Negative green, I always had this idea squirreled away in the back of my mind. Good luck with that and please keep it scientific and let us know the results good or bad.
 
InTheValley

InTheValley

Well-Known Member
The science to bigger harvest's, is hitting the plant from more angles, then directly down.

and again, green is beneficial. The plant needs the green to uptake CO2 better. Its the ONLY color of the spectrum that forces the plant to Utilize CO2 more efficiently.

Penetration is rated by spillover from above leaves, and reflection from the walls. Wouldnt it be nice to surround the plant in lights?

Also, tomato is a different spectrum,
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
ZeroTrousers said:
Bleaching with a 5w LED from 8 inches?

I've had plants within 6 inches of a Mars 300 panel (middle of the panel, a heck of a lot more than 5w of LED) with absolutely no bleaching. Heck, I have Pineapple Chunk that's trying its very best to reach out and touch my COBs - Vero 29 Gen7 D's at 80%. Even at 6 inches down, 2 inches off center it's only showing light stress, not bleaching. If i turned it up to 100%, that'd be a different story, sure, but still...

HPS hasn't *yet* been eclipsed by commercial LED, but that's just a matter of time. Every LED generation we see better photon flux/watt, the frequency discrimination gets better and the efficiency goes up. HPS certainly isn't dead yet, but it's not sitting securely on that throne.
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i too have had negative effects. if my tops get 6-12" from a 75W COB they get so fat that they tend to fall over
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
iHearAll said:
it seems like the results are so comparable that they mind as well be equivalent. i mean, the study is done on living organisms. Even if they were clones, the individual health of the plant at the bacteria level would make a difference. And, just because the individual would use the same exact nutrient formula wouldn't mean they have the same microorganism productivity. Id say, based on the graph, equal intensities of near same spectrums would in fact grow "equal" plants.
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thats a pretty solid observation, esp considering we can get the same "intensity" with 2/3 of the input wattage
 
HiloReign

HiloReign

Well-Known Member
These kinds of threads are STILL popping up?! I've been waiting years for you guys to stop it so we can go back to the good days of grow journals and cutting edge lighting (2012-2014?).
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
youd think that after years of people topping HPS in yield and quality that it would be settled

maybe GG is right and we need to not let up and pound it into their heads via a relentless stream of data
 
xX_BHMC_Xx

xX_BHMC_Xx

Well-Known Member
Yeah you're right man, LEDs are shit. No one here gets good results. Guess we should all just give up right?



Btw I've got my light about 8" from the canopy and I've got no bleaching or light stress. Not sure what you're doing...
 
Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
I've got within 4 inches of 30w emitters with no bleaching... Are you talking about a single 5 watt emitter or a lamp using 5w diodes?
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Rahz said:
I've got within 4 inches of 30w emitters with no bleaching... Are you talking about a single 5 watt emitter or a lamp using 5w diodes?
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Single 5w 450 lm bulb. I don't get why the bleaching occurs so much with LEDs. Never happens with HPS, just get burnt up but not really bleached like with LEDs. Maybe the IR of HPS will cause browning at a lower intensity than visible light will cause bleaching, so it burns before bleaching can show up.
 
Rahz

Rahz

Well-Known Member
I don't see how a 450 lumen bulb could bleach anything at 8 inches. The 30w emitter I mentioned was 3600 lumens, no bleaching until about 3" from the LES.
 
Budies 101

Budies 101

Well-Known Member
ZeroTrousers said:
Bleaching with a 5w LED from 8 inches?

I've had plants within 6 inches of a Mars 300 panel (middle of the panel, a heck of a lot more than 5w of LED) with absolutely no bleaching. Heck, I have Pineapple Chunk that's trying its very best to reach out and touch my COBs - Vero 29 Gen7 D's at 80%. Even at 6 inches down, 2 inches off center it's only showing light stress, not bleaching. If i turned it up to 100%, that'd be a different story, sure, but still...

HPS hasn't *yet* been eclipsed by commercial LED, but that's just a matter of time. Every LED generation we see better photon flux/watt, the frequency discrimination gets better and the efficiency goes up. HPS certainly isn't dead yet, but it's not sitting securely on that throne.
Click to expand...

To me the debate on if LED or HPS is better has been over a long time. People are growing with near half the wattage of a HPS and getting near or the same yeilds they did with HPS. The cost is the issue for most when it comes to buying or even building LED lights. If in a 4x8 you had 2k watts of HPS but grew with 1k watts of LED and HPS only slightly beat LED, that does not mean HPS is better, it means that LED is almost twice as good as HPS.
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
seems their is still no agreement among manufacturers on the best spectrum and type of LEDs to use. LEDs work great for lighting my house but after 3 years of test grows I have not found any that match the performance of my T5s in my environment with the strains I grow. I don't know about HID's because I have never tried them. just can't handle the heat. but it is interesting to watch these companies battle it out.I'm a 60 year old PU MMJ CLOSET growers and have seen nothing to convince me to spend $50-$100/sq ft for a grow light when an $85 6 bulb T5 is producing enough to meet the needs of myself and S.O guess I'm just to old to be impressed with technology and sales pitches. the price of CMH lights has come down enough to spike my interest if I could find a way to manage the heat http://www.ebay.com/itm/315W-CMH-Grow-Light-Kit-Reflector-WIDER-Range-W-Bulb-120-240V/272655806270?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
 

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