BagSeed Farmers

im telling you a seed from a hermie will no be a hermie unless it hets stressed out. theyre is no facts that say its gurranteed to be a hermie.


so along the lines sorry to say...your wrong.

i dont care really what hightimes says because they produce the magazine and get info about growing from other growers ect. so what they say is really an opinion

i'm doing a bagseed grow right now
and i started with 10 plants
after killing two by stressing them in the beginning (i'm new, i made lots of mistakes)
i ended up with 7 healthy plants and one sorta healthy plant
flowering time
6 males
1 hermie
2 females

its only been a couple weeks now since i switched over so i have no clue what these ladies will yield, but hopefully atleast a zip up to a quarter depending on how they continue to grow...

cali-high said:

im telling you a seed from a hermie will no be a hermie unless it hets stressed out. theyre is no facts that say its gurranteed to be a hermie.


so along the lines sorry to say...your wrong.

i dont care really what hightimes says because they produce the magazine and get info about growing from other growers ect. so what they say is really an opinion

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well i think youre wrong im afraid. the parent genes are all asexual and therefore the seed genetics will also be asexual. i think it makes biological sense...

alas!

I flowered 3 plants, all bagseed, 2/3 of them makes you feel like your soaring while the third was pretty much a waste.

hermie seeds DONT always produce hermies, it can also produce a male or female but most of the time the plant will be a "mutant" plant or have some other crazy trait.

lemme tell you i have grown nothin but bag seed.sold some of the weed grown.had reports from the smokers that it was some of the strongest best tastin kind they had for years.ppl who came from all over the country an smoked prim from all over.still said my bag seed was the fukin bomb

Hightimes is sponsored by seedbanks so of course they are gonna tell you not to grow bagseeds bcuz thats cuttin into both Hightimes profit and the seedbanks profits. They're gonna tell you it will only grow hermies, bad/weak genetics, dirt weed or whatever, but the truth is that the genes are fine. Just bcuz you dont know what you are working with doesnt mean they are bad genes.

morp said:

the parent genes are all asexual and therefore the seed genetics will also be asexual. i think it makes biological sense...

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lol..a hermie plant isn't "asexual", a Hermie plant is a plant with both reproductive organs.

something that is "asexual" reproduces with and ONLY with itself.-
like a starfish..you will never see 2 starfish having sex, thats bcuz they have sex with themselves in order to reproduce and that is the only way it reproduces

A hermie plant is different, there are 3 ways a hermie can reproduce -
(1)A hermie plant can pollinate a female and (2)pollinated by a male or (3) it can pollinate itself.

The fact that it can reproduce with other plants by either pollinating another plant, or being pollinated BY another plant means that a hermie IS NOT asexual.

When you grow from bagseed (assuming the seeds are viable) there is a 33.3% chance it will be female, 33.3% chance it will be male, a 33.3% chance it will be hermie.

..and when you grow seeds from a hermie plant, the chances of it being female are higher than it being anything else.

im still not convinced im afraid. i understand hermies can reproduce with other plants, thats not my point. imho self-pollinated hermie seeds grow hermie plants, male or female dominant, but still hermies. not worth keeping if youve got an alternative.

i apologise for my terminology not being entirely correct.

yes hermies are a watse most hermie seeds have had there genetics passed on an will be hermies themselves.... now im not sayin all will be but a higher % will be.....if you have any questions go to grow faqs on this site it has a pretty decent amount of facts

Spittn4cash said:

When you grow from bagseed (assuming the seeds are viable) there is a 33.3% chance it will be female, 33.3% chance it will be male, a 33.3% chance it will be hermie.

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How do you work this out? Are you not making a few assumptions here that you're berating others for doing? Where does the 33.3% chance that it will be a hermie come from?

Whichever way you go, you're wrong I'm afraid!

What you're effectively doing here is 'guessing' at the plants parents. If the parents were grown out from standard seeds (not feminsed) and one of the males dropped some pollen before it was pulled, the percentages for the seed becoming male or female are 50/50 or 50%, there is no percentage for hermie because neither the male nor the female carry hermaphrodite genes or chromosomes.

If the parent was a partially reversed sex predominantly female hermaphrodite, the type you can get from either environmental stress causing the hermaphroditism or from a feminised seed that became a 'genetic' hermaphrodite the chances of it being female are 50% and the chances of it being a genetic hermaphrodite (a hermaphrodite from germination and not caused by environmental factors) is also 50%. It can't be male because the plant doesn't carry male genes or chromosomes.

If the parent a partially reversed sex predominantly male hermaphrodite (it's unlikely to be found for obvious reasons, but it's still genetically possible) the type you can get from environmental stress causing the partial sex reversal in the male to produce 'some' female flowers then the chances of it being male are 50% and the chances of it being a genetic hermaphrodite is also 50%. It cannot be female because it does not carry any female genes or chromosomes.

So as I said, whichever way you go the ratio will always be 50/50. You cannot predict with any degree of probability whether a plant will partially sex reverse and become a hermaphrodite due to environmental factors and therefore you cannot factor in that probability into the liklihood of a seed germinating from standard and not feminised seeds into the ratio of male/female or hermaphrodite, the only genetic outcomes from standard and not feminsed seeds can only ever be male or female or 50%.

Spittn4cash said:

..and when you grow seeds from a hermie plant, the chances of it being female are higher than it being anything else.

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And if you read the above, you can now see why this is correct, but there's still about a 20% chance you'll get a genetic hermaphrodite and and equal chance as with any seed of becoming a hermaphrodite from environmental factors.

Which is precisely why you need to watch 'bagseed' plants for hermaphrodites somewhat closer than you would 'standard' seed plants due to the probability of them having come from a hermaphrodite parent.

i think thats what i said with out all the jabberin

babygro said:

How do you work this out? Are you not making a few assumptions here that you're berating others for doing? Where does the 33.3% chance that it will be a hermie come from?

Whichever way you go, you're wrong I'm afraid!

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You're making this more diffucult than it has to be. You're putting too much into it than need be. If this topic was a plant you'd be over-watering it!

The only assumptions I made were (1)the seed is viable and (2) you are a good enough grower to grow the plant successfully.

With that being said, the plant will have a chance of being 1 of 3 genders - male, female or hermie.

take the 100% (chance of survival)/3 (different genders) = 33.3% (chance of each gender)

Everything you mentioned I like to call "The unknown." If you cant verify whether the parents were from a feminised source, were female, or were hermie then you have to throw that out.

Like i said if you are growing from mystery bagseed the chance of a plant becomming male/female/hermie is 33.3%/33.3%/33.3%. you CANT say "50/50 - male/female" bcuz U dont know where the seed came from.

What you're effectively doing here is 'guessing' at the plants parents. If the parents were grown out from standard seeds (not feminsed) and one of the males dropped some pollen before it was pulled, the percentages for the seed becoming male or female are 50/50 or 50%, there is no percentage for hermie because neither the male nor the female carry hermaphrodite genes or chromosomes...

So as I said, whichever way you go the ratio will always be 50/50. You cannot predict with any degree of probability whether a plant will partially sex reverse and become a hermaphrodite due to environmental factors and therefore you cannot factor in that probability into the liklihood of a seed germinating from standard and not feminised seeds into the ratio of male/female or hermaphrodite, the only genetic outcomes from standard and not feminsed seeds can only ever be male or female or 50%.

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I have not seen a conclusive study that Environment plays a part in the gender of a plant. You just said that non-feminised seeds, or seeds bought from a seed bank has a 0% of going hermie right? So obviously you must believe that hermie chroma's are genetic right? If its genetic, then even if the plant is given the best conditions it will still be a hermie.

Thats sorta like male pattern balding - some people say its genetics, other say its from stress. If it is genetics then a man can live a stress-free life and still go bald right? Same concept with a plant, if hermie chroma's are genetic then a plant can live a stress free life and still be a hermie right?

And if you read the above, you can now see why this is correct, but there's still about a 20% chance you'll get a genetic hermaphrodite and and equal chance as with any seed of becoming a hermaphrodite from environmental factors.

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There is no proof that sex come from environmental factors or from stress. I have yet to see a conclusive study on this matter.

you just said that each seed has an equal chance of choosing its own gender, thats where I get the 33.3% male /33.3% female /33.3% hermie.

Where does the 20% come from?

Spittn4cash said:

You're making this more diffucult than it has to be. You're putting too much into it than need be. If this topic was a plant you'd be over-watering it!

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I put in as much information as was required to clear up the confusion that surrounded this subject - confusion you were adding to and continue to defend.

Spittn4cash said:

Like i said if you are growing from mystery bagseed the chance of a plant becomming male/female/hermie is 33.3%/33.3%/33.3%. you CANT say "50/50 - male/female" bcuz U dont know where the seed came from.

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How can YOU not being making an assumption about the plants parents by stating confidently that there's a 33.3% chance the bagseed will turn out hermaphrodite? You don't seem to understand how plants actually become hermaphrodites to be making that kind of assumption. There's only two possible ways a plant can be a hermaphrodite 1) It can be a genetic hermaphrodite from germination IF its parent was a self pollinating hermaphrodite itself and in this instance the seed can only be either male/female (depending on the predominance of the parent) or hermaphrodite. That's 50/50 in my book. 2) Any seed at any stage in it's life cycle can turn hermaprodite regardless of its parents due to environmental factors - there's no guarantee whatsoever though that this will happen - it depends entirely on the environment the plant is grown in. Because there's no 'guarantee' the plant will become a hermpahrodite, you cannot put any probability on it of it happening.

Spittn4cash said:

I have not seen a conclusive study that Environment plays a part in the gender of a plant.

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Then I politely suggest, you might want to widen your reading to include "Marijuana Botany" by Robert Connell Clarke, where he discusses this very subject and confirms unequivocably the environment plays a large and important part in the gender of a plant.

Spittn4cash said:

You just said that non-feminised seeds, or seeds bought from a seed bank has a 0% of going hermie right? So obviously you must believe that hermie chroma's are genetic right? If its genetic, then even if the plant is given the best conditions it will still be a hermie.

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Standard seeds have 0% chance of being a genetic hermaphrodite at germination as they don't carry the 'hermaphrodite' chromosomes or genes from hermaphrodite parents. They do however still retain a possiblity of becoming hermaphrodites from environmental factors and because you cannot put a 'probability' of that happening down, because it may never happen, to all intents and purposes 'standard' seeds will always produce either male or female plants at germination.

Spittn4cash said:

Same concept with a plant, if hermie chroma's are genetic then a plant can live a stress free life and still be a hermie right?

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This is where you're going wrong, because you're assuming there's only one way for a plant to become a hermaphrodite - genetically - there isn't there's two ways - genetically AND via environmental factors.

Spittn4cash said:

There is no proof that sex come from environmental factors or from stress. I have yet to see a conclusive study on this matter.

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Stamping your feet up and down saying the same thing over and over doesn't make what you're saying any more beleivable. As I said before - read "Marijuana Botanny" there's where you'll find your 'proof'.

Spittn4cash said:

Where does the 20% come from?

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The 20% comes from Dutch Passion, who have reported an 'up to 20%' occurence of hermaphrodites out of 10 seeds when using their 'feminised' seeds.

the only plants I've ever grown were bag seed. It turned out decent. The first grow, for example, we had 8 plants, 4 were female, and 2 of those were DANK, one was decent, and one was measely.

babygro said:

2) Any seed at any stage in it's life cycle can turn hermaprodite regardless of its parents due to environmental factors - there's no guarantee whatsoever though that this will happen - it depends entirely on the environment the plant is grown in. Because there's no 'guarantee' the plant will become a hermpahrodite, you cannot put any probability on it of it happening.

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I rest my case....
If U are saying this then why continue arguing with me?

why do you press the issue of where the seed comes from if Ur agreeing with me that "Any seed at any stage in it's life cycle can turn hermaprodite regardless of its parents "???

Im not talking about feminised, standard seeds, or anything else but the mystery bagseeds.

You shouldnt assume they're from any one type of parent or plant bcuz U can never say for sure... and if you throw all the other possibilities aside, all the unknowns, and just focus on what you know, not what a book says, not what a seedbank says...only focus on the facts that you know for sure, Im talking about just from simply looking at the seeds in the bag of weed...you cannot tell me anything about the seeds in that bag or the plants they will grow.

So Im going to assume the seed has a chance of survival, and assume that I am capable of growing the seed. Just off of those 2 facts alone I know that the seed may become 1 of 3 genders. Since I dont know anything about the Genes I cannot say for sure that it will be a 50/50 chance of male/female and 0% chance of hermie. At this point you have to give an equal probability of each gender.

I understand what you're saying about getting seeds from a mother who came from a feminised bank. In that case there would be a 20% of getting a hermie according to dutch passion. I also understand what you're saying about seeds from a mother who came from a standard seedbank who was pollinated by a male from a standards seedbank. the resulting seeds would have 0% chance of going hermie. But you're also saying that environment plays a factor in a plants gender also.

I undertand all of that. Im so taken back bcuz U seem to be such a knowledgeable individual, but yet it seems like you dont understand what Im saying about the bagseeds.

Its just like a math problem 3x*4y=? you dont need to know the value of X or the value of Y to solve the problem, but the problem still has a solution. X and Y can be anything and the problem would still be true.

Hold up...Not to be the ass of the forum...but this post wasnt intended for a debate on seed genetics.

I was looking for those that grew with bagseed and what their results were. If thats not gonna happen...maybe a new thread should be started to finish this debate.

I wanna add that alot of info was passed here...thats a good thing. Much appreciated

Oh I see how it is..U use us for the info then U kick us out..lol j/k
Its coo..Ill drop it for now. I'll check out this book BG mentioned, never hurts to read new material, you always learn something
Im out

Spittn4cash said:

I rest my case....
If U are saying this then why continue arguing with me?

why do you press the issue of where the seed comes from if Ur agreeing with me that "Any seed at any stage in it's life cycle can turn hermaprodite regardless of its parents "???

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Firstly, I'm not arguing with you - this is a discussion. Secondly, the reason I continue to say the same thing to you is because you're not understanding what I'm telling you and because your probability percentage of hermaphrodites is (from any seed) completely wrong.

I'll say it once again and I'm not saying it again. You cannot put a probability factor of 33.3% on seeds becoming hermaphrodite via environmental factors because there's NO GUARANTEE any seed will become a hermaphrodite from environmental factors. That's very different from saying any seed can become a hermaphrodite from environmental factors - they can - but there's still no guarantee it will happen.

You can get knocked down crossing the road, that doesn't mean you'll get knocked down every time you cross the road or that you'll get knocked down 3 times out of ten when you cross the road, or that you'll ever get knocked down crossing the road. You can't put a probability factor of it happening because there's no guarantee it will happen.

Regarding the rest of your post, re-read what I've said to you.

BloodShotI'z said:

Hold up...Not to be the ass of the forum...but this post wasnt intended for a debate on seed genetics.

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Fair enough, we did go off at a bit of a tangent. I've said as much as I need to, so you can get back on topic now, sorry for the distraction.