Bagseed & MiracleGro Tomato ("the cheapsta'")

Dec. 18 (Day 23) continued....
I finished watering and noticed a root poking out of the drain hole.


That shows how fast the roots grow. From a 22oz seedling container to #2 "2gal" (1.61 gal actual) a root has found it's way to the bottom in less than 3-1/2 days.

The leaves looked darker green when I got them away from the tent lights. The camera flash still makes them look lighter than I see in natural light. Another photo:


I bet it starts vegging quickly now. Indicas don't explode with growth. But, I bet it does over the next 2-3 days.

Looking good!! I transplanted 1 plant from a party cup to a 5 gallon bucket and she poked out the drain hole in 5 days, roots grow fast when they have enough oxygen, light soil, good drainage, and good water and feeding schedule's. +rep to your grow!!!

Dec. 19 (Day 24)
I was going to wait until the next feeding to post a picture. But, it's growing fast now. 24 hours after the seventh feeding:


I'm going to try 20% stronger nutrients next time (1.2tsp/gal 4.3g/gal). I'm not trying to promote overfeeding. But, I'd like to see if I'm close to "too much." It still surprises me the label calls for 1/2 tsp/gal (1.8g), and I'm using double that amount.

Now that it's stretching, I might top it once. No sign of sex yet.

I think I could have used full-strength nutes when I watered in the transplant. (I used half-strength then. 1/2tsp, 1.8g). It's growing fine. But, if I did it again, I might push it a little harder to see what happens. It might have grown more during those 3 days after the transplant.

az2000 said:

Dec. 19 (Day 24)
I was going to wait until the next feeding to post a picture. But, it's growing fast now. 24 hours after the seventh feeding:

View attachment 3568089 View attachment 3568088​

I'm going to try 20% stronger nutrients next time (1.2tsp/gal 4.3g/gal). I'm not trying to promote overfeeding. But, I'd like to see if I'm close to "too much." It still surprises me the label calls for 1/2 tsp/gal (1.8g), and I'm using double that amount.

Now that it's stretching, I might top it once. No sign of sex yet.

I think I could have used full-strength nutes when I watered in the transplant. (I used half-strength then. 1/2tsp, 1.8g). It's growing fine. But, if I did it again, I might push it a little harder to see what happens. It might have grown more during those 3 days after the transplant.

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She's looking really healthy!! Great job. This is a good example for the people that always talk shit about mg. awesome

Dec 22 (Day 27)
Today was the eighth feeding. I fed 3.8g/gal four days after the last feeding -- a little stronger than the 1tsp (3.6g) I've been feeding. It measured 530ppm (150 water + 380 nutes). Runoff was between 1000-1100ppm.

This is the plant before feeding:


I added one more Cree 9.5w A19 LED light to the top yesterday:


Now it's running 47.5w with 4:1 (cool:warm). That's enough power for a 2.5sq ft area (at 19w/sq ft). That's probably a little overpowered for the size of the plant. Ideally, 25-30w/sq ft in flower. (Although, I have flowered at 21w/sq ft with these lights.). So, veg could be 15-20, I guess. A PAR meter would be the definitive way to know. But, they cost $300.

(The plant is sitting in a 2x2 4' tall space. The next step up in light will be to replace the 9.5w top light with an 18w Cree PAR38 flood.).

The container didn't dry as fast as I expected. The top 1" of soil dried while the container was still heavy. I sprayed the top of the soil 3 times (the past day or two) to re-moisten the top when it became dry again. I wanted to delay watering as long as possible because I felt like I watered too soon last time. (Adding water to the top might have added some time to the drying. It's hard to know how far it soaks in. I didn't spray much. This is the problem with growing in a container that's too large for the plant. It should go faster now.).

Some of the leaves are getting dark green toward the ends. That surprises me considering how little N this fertilizer has. Storing it up, I guess.

I have a feeling this is a male. Something about the form of the plant, it's node spacing (lanky'ness). Something about that tells me it's male. My instinct is about 70% correct. We'll see.

It can be tough figuring out how much water is needed when you have a little plant in a big pot. I transplanted mine after a week into their final pots and it was a struggle at first to find the correct amount but thankfully I got it right without to much trouble. I never allowed for any run off until they were around 6-8" tall.

Subbed. Always like following in depth experimental grows.

Dec 25 (Day 30)
Today was the ninth feeding. I fed 3.8g/gal about 64 hours after the last feeding. 3.6 to 3.8g/gal seems to be a teaspoon. I wanted to try 4.0g/gal. But, it seems to be doing well. I don't want to mess it up. PPMs today were 525 (375ppm + 150 from water). Runoff ppm: 950-1000.

This is what it looked like before feeding:


I removed the flexible light extenders from one side. The lighting looks like this now:


I'm going to swap that top one with a Cree 18w PAR38 LED floodlight pretty soon, for better coverage.

I still think it will be a male. But, I had a dream last night that it's female! I should flip to 12/12 soon. I don't need to grow a fully veg'ed plant. I'm just experimenting how MG Tomato works.

I have a Control Wizard Accurate 8 soil pH probe. Halfway between waterings the soil is 6.5-6.6. When closer to ready for watering: 6.9. I will measure 2-3 hours after watering and add that later.

az2000 said:

Dec 25 (Day 30)
I still think it will be a male. But, I had a dream last night that it's female!

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Dec 26 (Day 31)
Dreams come true! I see the slightest hair emerging from a calyx:



This is the newest growth, 7th node.

(The above was taken using SuperEyes model #B005, Linux, and the free web-cam capture application Cheese.).

Congrats!

Now dream that I win the lotto lol.

Luv it bro! Thanx for letting us follow along!

Dec 28 (Day 33)
Tenth feeding exactly 72 hours after the previous. 3.6g/gal, 500ppm total (340 + 160 water). Runoff ppm: 950-1000. The plant looked like this before watering:


I have replaced the top light (9.5w Cree A19) with a 18w Cree PAR38 flood. Total 56w -- 18w/sq ft for the partially filled 4sq ft space. (The plant is touching the front/rear walls. But, I'm calling it 3 sq ft because it's relatively short. Not much vertical plant to cover with light.).


The color balance is four 9.5w 4000k and one 18w 3000k. Cree doesn't make a cool-white PAR38. I haven't vegged with a PAR38 before. Hopefully doubling the warm (from 9.5w 2800k to 18w 3000k) will be ok.

The PAR38 flood can be intense. I have it 8" from the top. That's it's "focus" (shining it against a wall to see the coverage and uniformity). I like to use these in flower, at a 45-degree angle around the top. They take up less space in a short tent that way. (The spot has a focus of around 14-16". I don't use spots very often. Maybe in my tall tent if I want to supplement from a tent leg and the distance works better.).

Regarding sex
The pistil in the previous post seems to be coming from the other side. But, there's no calyx formed there. It seems to come out of a recess in the crouch. I was trying to look at it -- and then saw this:


That's the calyx I photographed from the other side. So, I think my dream still came true. I'll keep watching it. I see more calyxes forming on outer branches.

Testing stronger nutrients
I was going to try stronger nutrients. But, now that it seems to be female, I don't want to do it. If it were a male, I would feed it one last time at 4.5g/gal to see if it burned. It seems to be doing well at 3.6-3.8g/gal, which is a tsp/gal. (335-375ppm, actually measured, excluding the ppm of the water.).

Soil pH
I tested the soil again, 18 hours before feeding: ph 6.8.
1 hour after feeding: 6.5

The soil isn't as acidic as I'm used to feeding my more organic Grow More Sea Grow (plus organic supplements). I'm used to seeing 5.8 after feeding (or 12 hours later) and 6.8 when it's dry. It must be the absence of organic nutrient sources.

If I did this again, I might reduce the dolomite in my soil. It might be fine without any (since the Pro-Mix HP has dolomite). But, it doesn't seem to be a problem this way. It should be beneficial in flower to have a bit higher pH.

Dec 31 (Day 36)
Eleventh feeding exactly 72 hours after previous. 3.6g/gal, 480ppm total (340 + 140 water). Runoff ppm: 1200-1250. The plant before feeding:


Those lower fan leaves are freakishly large. The container is 8.5" across.

I'm really surprised how dark green the lower leaves are. Sometimes it looks a little N-toxic. But, that doesn't make much sense considering the fertilizer isn't abundant in N.

If you zoom the top-down shot: Some new growth shows what looks like Mg deficiency. I think this is from the 18w Cree PAR38 flood. I haven't used it for veg before. It seems to be too intense at 8" (which is ok in flower. I may have failed to raise it with the plant growth. It was more like 6" a couple times.). I'm keeping it at 10" now. I may swap it out for two 9.5w bulbs.

I added 1/4 tsp/gal epsom salt to the nutrients (80ppm added to the mix). That's a mild treatment for Mg def. I don't think there's really a deficiency. I think the light intensity over-drove something to the point of a localized deficiency.

For more coverage, I added a daylight 10w GE BrightStik with the plastic diffusor removed (electrocution hazard). I turned it on for 6 hours yesterday, 8 hours today. I'll probably leave it on tomorrow.


The BrightStik seems to produce 20-25% more light than the 9.5w Cree A19. The BrightStik's LEDs point forward, instead of Cree's elevated "tower" with LEDS facing sideways (all the way around). That makes them better suited for directional light. BrightStik's flat/flush mounting surface also makes it less risk of shock to operate without the plastic diffusor. (To protect against electrocution, a GFI outlet should be used if the diffusion cap is removed.).

That's 67 watts total. (4 - 9.5w cool Cree A19. 1 - 10w cool GE BrightStik. 1 - 18w 3000k Cree PAR38 flood.).

Next Wednesday will be Day 42 (six weeks since sprout). I think I will switch to 12/12 then.

Looking ok bro. Can't help much with all the light stuff. And my eyes ain't so good. Like the idea of going into flower. Looks ready enough.

GrowUrOwnDank said:

Like the idea of going into flower. Looks ready enough.

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You talked me into it. Yesterday was the last day of the 5th week. I'll cut the lights 3 hours early (come on 3 hours late). We'll say it vegged 5 weeks.

When people say "vegged 6 weeks" does that include the first (seedling week) after breaking ground? I've never understood that. In this case I'm counting the seedling week (plus 4).

az2000 said:

You talked me into it. Yesterday was the last day of the 5th week. I'll cut the lights 3 hours early (come on 3 hours late). We'll say it vegged 5 weeks.

When people say "vegged 6 weeks" does that include the first (seedling week) after breaking ground? I've never understood that. In this case I'm counting the seedling week (plus 4).

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I wouldn't even worry about the details. Looking good.

Edit. I try not to give advice. Personally. I think a month veg is great. And a photo will do that anyway just because it needs to develop roots and a strong foundation. Even autos usually don't start flowering til then. Since I'm a micro guy just for personal. And have a small set up with limited resources. I just get it to harvest as fast as I think it can. I certainly don't try to maximize the plant to its full potential. I don't need to. So quality and speed are my priorities. It's all good tho. We all do things different. Just my way. Certainly not the best method for everyone. Good luck bro. Glad you are doing this.

GrowUrOwnDank said:

So quality and speed are my priorities.

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For this grow, me too. I just wanted to document how MG Tomato works so people would know if it works, how much to feed, etc.. My motivation is: Some people might be willing to try growing if it's as easy as picking up the plant food at the local hardware store (compared to delving into themed "lineups," which feels more like a commitment.). Maybe this would eliminate the uncertainty/complexity and someone would choose to try growing a plant when they otherwise wouldn't.

I like using LED lightbulbs for the same reason. Someone might be willing to try growing if it doesn't involve mailordering a special light (and all the drama of deciding which "team" is best). If it's as simple as picking up some bulbs at the hardware store, it might seem more do-able.

I'd like to get into micro growing for the same reason. I'd like to experiment with LED strip lights, maybe document something which might make it easier for an apartment-dweller grow.

How big is your space? What lights do you use?

az2000 said:

For this grow, me too. I just wanted to document how MG Tomato works so people would know if it works, how much to feed, etc.. My motivation is: Some people might be willing to try growing if it's as easy as picking up the plant food at the local hardware store (compared to delving into themed "lineups," which feels more like a commitment.). Maybe this would eliminate the uncertainty/complexity and someone would choose to try growing a plant when they otherwise wouldn't.

I like using LED lightbulbs for the same reason. Someone might be willing to try growing if it doesn't involve mailordering a special light (and all the drama of deciding which "team" is best). If it's as simple as picking up some bulbs at the hardware store, it might seem more do-able.

I'd like to get into micro growing for the same reason. I'd like to experiment with LED strip lights, maybe document something which might make it easier for an apartment-dweller grow.

How big is your space? What lights do you use?

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Hey man I love the way you think. Yea you are exactly right, my first grow was all MG in a regular old pot and I invested about $100 on 4 65 actual watt CFL's. I built a cabinet about 4 foot tall 2'x20" deep. It fits perfectly in a closet in my man cave room. It's a decent well thought out cab actually but, I think I've only finished two grows inside it. The plants either get to tall or it gets too hot in there. Lately I don't even bother, I just use the closet.

I started out with big CFL's then moved on to a 135 watt Blurple LED back when it was fairly new to growers. I upgraded that to a full spectrum 180 watt LED several years ago from the same company that is now Mars. I like them ok. Cheap enough and they work fine. Then I got a 150 Watt HID and in flower I usually use a combination of all of the above with no real reason except it seems to fill in all the spectrums. I start with small CFL as a seedling. So... I'm always changing.

I've done soil and RDWC and now I am just doing hempy with GH Maxibloom powder using the Lucas Formula. It's just easy. I'm heavy on Dinafem genes but have also used DNA Genetics, World of Sweets, Sweet Seeds and a few others. Dinafem genes are just rock solid IMO and that's why they are my fav. I mostly do autos and a few photo 12/12 from seedling. Currently I'm really liking Bodhi regular seeds. I've started some compost and hope to go water only sometime soon as at least a test and to try it. Overall hempy bucket and Lucas formula is bullet proof tho.

I could set my closet up for probably 10 plants or so if I wanted. But, I'm just for personal so that's way too much weed for just me. I normally grow anywhere from 1 to 3 plants at a time the most being 4 and I ended up culling 2 so flowered out only 2. I started out using pots, then 5 gallon buckets, now 3 and I am thinking 2 gallon buckets are in my future. I want smaller plants not trees. Just good bud.

Smoking Dinafem Amnesia currently, the Amnesia XXL auto has been kicking my ass since like March. I did the photo first. Awesome. The XXL gets large. Dinafem genes really are top notch in my book.

I have two extra bedrooms in my house. If I wanted too........ I could go big but really, I'm a small timer. I've been in the game about 6 years now and I'm not the most knowledgeable grower. But, I get better than adequate results.

Anyway, I agree that growing weed can be as easy or as hard you make it on a micro scale. It's rather simple actually and this thread is awesome. All noobs should be reading this because it is a good starting point. I learned to grow on RIU and also read seemorebuds book. Marijuana for less and I really enjoyed that book and have read others as well.

Anyway. Thanks for sharing bro and looking good! Peace and love in 2016 bro.

az2000 said:

When people say "vegged 6 weeks" does that include the first (seedling week) after breaking ground? I've never understood that. In this case I'm counting the seedling week (plus 4).

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I count from the day it sprouts till the day I change the light cycle. IMO, it's vegging as soon as it breaks ground since a robust root system is what is desirable before flowering the plant. As growyourowndank said, it really doesn't matter as I've seen videos and read posts where grower's only know how many days they flowered the plants and guess at how long they vegged them and the end product still looks very appealing!

Keep up the good work and thanks again for sharing!

GrowUrOwnDank said:

I've started some compost and hope to go water only sometime soon as at least a test and to try it.

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Take a look at @unwine99's "no-cook" organic soil. (Revised here.). That looks simple and close to water-only. He might do a tea or two. I'd like to try a water-only organic soil without doing the longer-term soil preparation.