Basic Hydroponics Questions

Hi-

I've been doing a lot of reading up on growing with Hydroponics, but I'm looking for a few expert opinions on some recommendations/question I have.

I currently have my seeds germinating in my 10 gal hydroponic using rockwool and Hydroton. (I've been spraying them without ph testing or adding neuts. (I know! Not to wet or i'll rot the roots.) However, a lot of websites and forums have mentioned this is the advance way and a better way would be using a heating pad. So, i've purchased one and currently have them in a heating making sure the rockwool stays damp until the roots start to pop up. I'll then transfer it to my 10Gal hydroponic.

Questions:
1. Most people seem to say don't add any neuts until week 2 of germination? True?
2. Does anyone have any recommendation on extra neuts? I'm going to stay with the 3 stage HP, but BioRoot?
3. One thing I can't seem to understand is when do I refill the water in my hydroponics. Most people say leave it until it's empty. Then refill and at neuts, but how will the water reach the plastic net cups? (I'm using a airstone and pump. Does the container become humid over time?)

Good luck finding an "expert" on here. 1. yes, i go one week. 2 i use only one nute, flora nova bloom. Most nute products are gimmicks. I refill the water in my hydro once a week or once every two weeks, other than that i just top it. You didn't specify the type of hydro you're doing but it sounds you have a DWC setup

1. yes the food is held in the cotyledon so there is no reason to feed either until 2 weeks
2. starting id use a 1 part veg 1 part bloom formula
3. top it off then measure the ec of the topped off solution then add nutes to fix the levels to where you want.

Ckma said:

1. yes the food is held in the cotyledon so there is no reason to feed either until 2 weeks
2. starting id use a 1 part veg 1 part bloom formula
3. top it off then measure the ec of the topped off solution then add nutes to fix the levels to where you want.

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Thanks for the comments everyone. Ckma, question. from what I have been reading it seems to be better to get a ppm tester than a ec tester. As they seem to be cheaper and feeding schedules are given in PPM....agree?

No need to feed the plants until at least two weeks, the plant contains food in its tissue so all you need to do is water it. Some people add a little bit of cal mag to the water but thats it until it grows its third pair of leaves.

The three part system is the way to go and using a root stimulator is also a good idea. I would stay away from the extras until harvest time, GH Kool Bloom works very well as well as AN Bud Candy and Bud Ignitor. Flowering time is when you want to add bloom boosters but until then its best to stay away from them in veg, to easy to overfeed the plant, and if you do it is very hard to correct.

Your gonna want to get a PPM meter so you can just top off your res when needed. As the plant grows it will start using more and more water so there is no exact time when you need to change it. Although, you never want the water level to drop below the net pot because then giant roots called rope roots form in order to stretch down to reach the water which puts stress on the plants and slows the growth. Always keep water level above the net pots.

Your container will not become humid overtime but when you get to the flowering stage your gonna want to keep your res temp lower then when in veg, prob around 65 degrees is best. Frozen water bottles work well if you cant afford a chiller. Your gonna want to use more then one air stone if you want a decent plant. If you can run as many airstones as possible, i currently run three 12 inch air stones to each 5 gal bucket, my plants are always at least 4 feet tall and produce over 4 oz like clock work. The more oxygen you can get to your plants the less it had to work, in return it can put this energy into creating more and bigger buds.

Fresh nutrients might be NPK 10-20-10. After 2 weeks, let's presume all the P is eaten, half the N and 2/3 of the K. So, you have 5-0-3.3. Then you add a 50% tank volume of fresh 10-20-10. The resulting NPK is something like 7.5-10-6.65, not quite the high P ratio you want for flowering.

If you are choosing between meters, it is far more important to have a ph pen.

I suggest Dyna-Gro Grow. It sounds like you are doing deep water culture, so you want to make sure the nutes you get are not organic.

If you are doing DWC, keep the bucket topped up with water ever couple of days. This is really only an issue in flower or late veg once the roots are big and drink a lot of water. If you let the water line get low the roots will start to rope up.

your roots must always be touching water level in DWC. before the roots pop out of netpots, the netpot itself must be just touching the water, and that is just 1mm or so at the bottom so that the hydroton caould wick some and the bubbling must be at its max making the space under the lid a humid air space. after the roots emerge from netpots, allow them to grow just a little bit about 2' in the solution then you lower your water level just below netpots, as the roots grow, you lower water levels as to keep 1/2 of the root length suspended in air and the other 1/2 submerged, good luck

all ppm(parts per million) pens measure based on EC(electro conductivity) then convert to ppm or estimated tds(total dissolved solids).

To convert - every .1 ec = 50 ppm

accurate tds can only be read by getting a sample solution, dissolving the water and weighting the solids that remain after evaporation then creating a weight ration giving you the measurement of true total dissolved solids.

a meter only estimates tds by using electro conductivity and its not a true measurement.

so all pen measurements are based on EC .. if your foods is in ppm you can get an ec pen that measure ppm or you can take ec and multiply 500 to derive ppm. Dont let people fool you that one pen is better then another

Thanks to everyone who commented!!!

BUUUTTT, unfortunately my first grow failed. My seeds started to grow (I had two leaves), but it slowly started to die. (Leaves started to shrivel up and turn brown.)

Here's what I was doing;

Used 1.5" rockwool. and planted the seed. And made sure I kept it moist, but not soaked and placed them under a heating pad using a germination kit. I soon then started to put them under light. Think that's why they might be dying. So, I put them under a 300W CFL Daylight bulb. About a 1ft 1/2in away from the plant. (Did worse.)


Since then. I've learned a lot. Right now I have a ph tester and have ph down. (The water is was using had a ph of 7.0+) I'm currently planting seeds, but before I put them into rockwool. I placed the rockwool in a water with ph 5.0-5.5 for 3hrs. I will then plant the seed and soak it one more time. At this time i'll put it in the germination kit until the leaves show.

One thing I can't find a straight answer on is should I put light on the seeds right away? I believe the old bulb was to strong. So, I know how a 45 Watt CFL daylight and just purchased a 65 Watt CFL day light bulb.



sorry for the soppy email. sent via phone.

90% of the time a seedling dies in rockwool is because it was too wet. I put a 250w MH on seedlings so I doubt it's your light. And yes they need light (not a lot) or they will stretch.

Malevolence, I was thinking the same thing, but after reading a few tutorials and how to videos. It seems like I wasnt giving them enough water....These people are submerging the rockwool in water before planting the seed. I was simply just using a spray bottle to keep them wet and didn't do any ph balancing beforehand. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCAIBl5TS0

Yea the other 10% is not enough water ;p

Malevolence said:

Yea the other 10% is not enough water ;p

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Is it possible the high Ph could have been the factor?

No, nutes can only be absorbed in a certain ph range so that's why you have to set it at 5.8 If the ph is too far off, think of it like trying to suck a milk shake through a straw. Since you are just running straight water and they are seedlings, there is no need for nutes and no need to to ph the water.

why are you using rockwool and what type of hydro setup are you using ... I dont use any medium to germinate and never have these issues...

I take an old mason jar fill it with water to the top line
cover the top with window screening
place the screw on ring around the jar to hold screen tight
install air stones in jar with lines running through holes in screen
turn on bubbler
place seed on screening and cover the top with ziplock bag and rubber band it loosely.
place under a cfl or led light...
the taproot will grow through the screen but will easily come out when you pull on it..

Never fails 100% of the time it works all the time

you were looking for wise advice and you got it, Malvolence spot on, there is no need for nutes, i always start seeds with tap water with no problems, i soak rockwool in water and h2o2 for a night and i scrub them lightly to loosen their surface, plant the seed in them and let them drain very well, cover them with a lid to prevent drying and just mist every day or 2, you want it moist but not wet, temps round 25C , good luck

Malevolence,

Thanks for the info. The plants have started to develop leaves, but the cotyledons are beginning to dye and on 1 plant the tips of the leaves are too. Here's a similar pic; http://tinyurl.com/p7wrqwv

This forum along with other websites have mentioned sometimes that's alright, other recommended adding neuts and one even mentioned not having the dome on. (Which I have removed, I found after they've sprouted to remove the dome. Some people say dont even have it on at all, unless they're clones?) Anyhow, I have left the heating pad on, because its a bit cold, but I do have a thermometer and its never over under 70 or above 79. However, after a bit of reading I've decided to give them some neuts. Im using the 3 stage of HP. I gave them 1/4 per gal. And dipped the rockwool bottom in, only going 20% in. And I'm running 18/6 for lights with two 45W daylight bulbs. Ph is at 5.5-6.0 and ppm was 400 with nuets.

Does any of these seem wrong? It just seems like a slow grow process....maybe its normal with bagseeds...Its been almost 7 days any only have 2 inch plants...Guess I'm just looking for advice or anything I'm might be doing wrong. Thanks! (Do you recommend any nuets to get the roots/plants to growing faster?

400 ppm is too hot, I would run more like 100ppm for that seedling. A lot of bagseed does not grow very vigerously, you might try beans from a real breeder. My girlfriend has some seed from our last grow going right now that has been that baby size for like 2 weeks. There is a chance it is just the genetics and not really much you can do.

I disagree with this. If you are growing DWC, feed the plant as soon as it has roots. Just start with your res at 600-800ppm right off the bat (0.5 conversion factor) . The sooner your roots touch the water, the faster your plants will start to explode.

You aren't going to burn your plants at 600ppm no matter how young they are. Seeds don't drop into inert media in nature, they drop into fertile soil.

I know many disagree with me on this, but I've been doing it this way for years, and the "burn" that people talk about on the forums just doesn't happen. What I see way more often is people coming into the help section with DWC 2 weeks from germ with under-nourished plants. From my experience, the sooner the plants see 600-800ppm (0.5cf), the faster their growth spurt kicks off.

n3mp0 said:

1. Most people seem to say don't add any neuts until week 2 of germination? True?

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