Bernie Sanders 2020

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Well, Bernie has never accomplished anything meaningful in 30 years in politics.
We will find that out soon enough if he captures the democratic nomination. If the only thing he ever did in his entire life was get busted at protests and do donald, Doing Donald would be quite enough!

If he's so inept at driving through his agenda you'll have few concerns, as congress will suddenly rediscover bipartisanship.:wink: The wink was for the lobbyists!

The president may propose, but the congress will dispose!
 
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Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Rob I'm sure most of the people in your life wanna leave ya alone, your only human contact recently has probably been with the prison system, I can see why yer so antisocial.
If your statement were true...

why do you think most people participate in the political charade...

Knowing full well that if their favored douche bag is elected...

at least some of their neighbors WON'T be left alone and will be herded in the direction of the favored douche bag for at least the time period the favored douche is in office?

Are you sure you're sane ?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If your statement were true...

why do you think most people participate in the political charade...

Knowing full well that if their favored douche bag is elected...

at least some of their neighbors WON'T be left alone and will be herded in the direction of the favored douche bag for at least the time period the favored douche is in office?

Are you sure you're sane ?
It's not my problem if ya don't like human nature Rob, look within for the answers.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If your statement were true...

why do you think most people participate in the political charade...

Knowing full well that if their favored douche bag is elected...

at least some of their neighbors WON'T be left alone and will be herded in the direction of the favored douche bag for at least the time period the favored douche is in office?

Are you sure you're sane ?
Be careful posting Rob, there aren't many Trumpers around lately and folks is ornery around these parts!
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
It's not my problem if ya don't like human nature Rob, look within for the answers.
Except, I'm not looking for answers in the political realm.

I'm looking to get others to consider that the "answers" they accept are demonstrably contradictory, hence not really "the right answers".

Interesting point about human nature though, you have inadvertently reminded me that people don't really want actual answers, they want affirmation of the "answers" that make them feel good, even if they are the incorrect answers.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
yeah that makes a lot of sense:roll:
I can't fake it when it comes to disbelief. I don't see any substance to Bernie's promises and I'm not going to lie about it. He's leagues better than Trump, who is more of a crime boss or a corrupt dictator than a politician. Trump has to go, so I'll vote for Bernie if that's my choice in the fall. I don't think Bernie is corrupt or wants to be a dictator. I simply disbelieve Bernie when he makes his grandiose promises.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Fight for your nominee by all means, but do it fairly, Bernie's character is not the issue here, his policies and his ability to enact them are. I'm saying that if he wins the nomination and you end up supporting him, you might have to eat your words in front of a Trumper! My main argument about those apprehensive about Bernie, if he wins, is that he will be constrained by congress, unlike Trump. If Bernie becomes president you'll hear a lot of talk about bipartisanship in the halls of congress! Remember taxes and major policy changes are the business of congress and Bernie doesn't own it. It's up to the donkeys to decide and so far they've picked a mule called Bernie. Fight for your nominee, I'm an observer so far and won't have to live with most of the consequences or pay the taxes. As far as I'm concerned anybody is better than Trump and an American patriot has little choice but to vote and vote democratic, staying home is not an option for patriots, neither is Trump or the GOP.

Russia fucks up too and has no crystal ball, they just wanna stir up shit, they might regret their support of Bernie, Donald seems to be becoming concerned too.
I won't lie for him, I will suck it up and vote if the DNC chooses him to lead the Democratic ticket.

He kept from us that the Russians have been attacking the other cadidates for over a month (at the very least), to help his chances.

He ran with the support for Russia now for over 5 years, and has known about it.

I dont trust him at all anymore, he lost that as soon as he decided to allow our communities to be attacked by the Russians and decided to use it to get a better chance at being elected over warning us all about it and removing all doubt.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
He ran with the support for Russia now for over 5 years, and has known about it.
That will be interpreted as a false equivalency with Trump, who has far more extensive Russian connections, I don't think Donald will be talking too much about Russians, he's too easy a target himself. No sensible candidate would mention that Vlad favors him or is acting without permission in his interest, only Trump would do that because his base are single issue and blind to all else.

If Bernie wins, wait for the polls in a head to head with Trump before losing hope. I know that you don't agree with Bernie ideologically, but he will be tamed by congress, many of whom share your concerns. Congress will suddenly rediscover bipartisanship again and a democratic landslide will soon devolve into factions.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
That will be interpreted as a false equivalency with Trump, who has far more extensive Russian connections, I don't think Donald will be talking too much about Russians, he's too easy a target himself. No sensible candidate would mention that Vlad favors him or is acting without permission in his interest, only Trump would do that because his base are single issue and blind to all else.

If Bernie wins, wait for the polls in a head to head with Trump before losing hope. I know that you don't agree with Bernie ideologically, but he will be tamed by congress, many of whom share your concerns. Congress will suddenly rediscover bipartisanship again and a democratic landslide will soon devolve into factions.
mostly agree

Except the part of "false equivalence". Not so. Bernie is knowingly benefiting from Russian help, so it is fair and true to compare Bernie's tacit acceptance of help with Trump's actions to accept Russian help. The only difference being that Putin and Russian oligarchs aren't favoring Bernie, they are using him as a tool of division among the liberal left.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Trust me folks, if the democrats win in a landslide and the threat of Trump is removed, they will come apart at the seams in no time flat! You'll have your faction in congress and it will function like a congress should. Bernie ain't gonna be sending any mean tweets!
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Trust me folks, if the democrats win in a landslide and the threat of Trump is removed, they will come apart at the seems in no time flat! You'll have your faction in congress and it will function like a congress should. Bernie ain't gonna be sending any mean tweets!
The Great OZ Canadian from Nova Scotia has spoken!!!
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If Bernie were to get the nomination, I'd bet the intelligence community will endorse him, John Brennan for instance. So would the legal community, so would the newspapers, as would the foreign service community. A lot of people might sound funny endorsing Bernie with one hand holding their nose.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Projected costs of single-payer healthcare financing in the United States: A systematic review of economic analyses

Background

The United States is the only high-income nation without universal, government-funded or -mandated health insurance employing a unified payment system. The US multi-payer system leaves residents uninsured or underinsured, despite overall healthcare costs far above other nations. Single-payer (often referred to as Medicare for All), a proposed policy solution since 1990, is receiving renewed press attention and popular support. Our review seeks to assess the projected cost impact of a single-payer approach.

Conclusions

In this systematic review, we found a high degree of analytic consensus for the fiscal feasibility of a single-payer approach in the US. Actual costs will depend on plan features and implementation. Future research should refine estimates of the effects of coverage expansion on utilization, evaluate provider administrative costs in varied existing single-payer systems, analyze implementation options, and evaluate US-based single-payer programs, as available.

What did the researchers do and find?

  • We found and compared cost analyses of 22 single-payer plans for the US or individual states.
  • Nineteen (86%) of the analyses estimated that health expenditures would fall in the first year, and all suggested the potential for long-term cost savings.
  • The largest savings were predicted to come from simplified billing and lower drug costs.
  • Studies funded by organizations across the political spectrum estimated savings for single-payer.
What do these findings mean?
  • There is near-consensus in these analyses that single-payer would reduce health expenditures while providing high-quality insurance to all US residents.
  • To achieve net savings, single-payer plans rely on simplified billing and negotiated drug price reductions, as well as global budgets to control spending growth over time.
  • Replacing private insurers with a public system is expected to achieve lower net healthcare cost




"The evidence abounds: A Medicare for All single-payer system would guarantee comprehensive coverage to everyone in America and save money.

Christopher Cai and colleagues at three University of California campuses examined 22 studies on the projected cost impact for single-payer health insurance in the United States and reported their findings in a recent paper in PLOS Medicine. Every single study predicted that it would yield net savings over several years. In fact, it's the only way to rein in health care spending significantly in the U.S.

All of the studies, regardless of ideological orientation, showed that long-term cost savings were likely. Even the Mercatus Center, a right-wing think tank, recently found about $2 trillion in net savings over 10 years from a single-payer Medicare for All system. Most importantly, everyone in America would have high-quality health care coverage.

Medicare for All is far less costly than our current system largely because it reduces administrative costs. With one public plan negotiating rates with health care providers, billing becomes quite simple. We do away with three-quarters of the estimated $812 billion the U.S. now spends on health care administration.

Administrative costs are so high because thousands of insurance companies individually negotiate benefit rules and rates with thousands of hospitals and doctors. On top of that, they rely on different billing procedures - and this puts a costly burden on providers.


Administrative savings from Medicare for All would be about $600 billion a year. Savings on prescription drugs would be between $200 billion and $300 billion a year, if we paid around the same price as other wealthy countries pay for their drugs. A Medicare for All system would save still more with implementation of global health care spending budgets."
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Ya know I'm kinda enjoying being a bit of a Bernie troll, though I'm sure there are a few here who will disabuse me of that notion, or make me work like Hell to back it up! Guess this is foreign interference Canadian style and we're left of Bernie up this way!
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Projected costs of single-payer healthcare financing in the United States: A systematic review of economic analyses

Background

The United States is the only high-income nation without universal, government-funded or -mandated health insurance employing a unified payment system. The US multi-payer system leaves residents uninsured or underinsured, despite overall healthcare costs far above other nations. Single-payer (often referred to as Medicare for All), a proposed policy solution since 1990, is receiving renewed press attention and popular support. Our review seeks to assess the projected cost impact of a single-payer approach.

Conclusions

In this systematic review, we found a high degree of analytic consensus for the fiscal feasibility of a single-payer approach in the US. Actual costs will depend on plan features and implementation. Future research should refine estimates of the effects of coverage expansion on utilization, evaluate provider administrative costs in varied existing single-payer systems, analyze implementation options, and evaluate US-based single-payer programs, as available.

What did the researchers do and find?

  • We found and compared cost analyses of 22 single-payer plans for the US or individual states.
  • Nineteen (86%) of the analyses estimated that health expenditures would fall in the first year, and all suggested the potential for long-term cost savings.
  • The largest savings were predicted to come from simplified billing and lower drug costs.
  • Studies funded by organizations across the political spectrum estimated savings for single-payer.
What do these findings mean?
  • There is near-consensus in these analyses that single-payer would reduce health expenditures while providing high-quality insurance to all US residents.
  • To achieve net savings, single-payer plans rely on simplified billing and negotiated drug price reductions, as well as global budgets to control spending growth over time.
  • Replacing private insurers with a public system is expected to achieve lower net healthcare cost




"The evidence abounds: A Medicare for All single-payer system would guarantee comprehensive coverage to everyone in America and save money.

Christopher Cai and colleagues at three University of California campuses examined 22 studies on the projected cost impact for single-payer health insurance in the United States and reported their findings in a recent paper in PLOS Medicine. Every single study predicted that it would yield net savings over several years. In fact, it's the only way to rein in health care spending significantly in the U.S.

All of the studies, regardless of ideological orientation, showed that long-term cost savings were likely. Even the Mercatus Center, a right-wing think tank, recently found about $2 trillion in net savings over 10 years from a single-payer Medicare for All system. Most importantly, everyone in America would have high-quality health care coverage.

Medicare for All is far less costly than our current system largely because it reduces administrative costs. With one public plan negotiating rates with health care providers, billing becomes quite simple. We do away with three-quarters of the estimated $812 billion the U.S. now spends on health care administration.

Administrative costs are so high because thousands of insurance companies individually negotiate benefit rules and rates with thousands of hospitals and doctors. On top of that, they rely on different billing procedures - and this puts a costly burden on providers.


Administrative savings from Medicare for All would be about $600 billion a year. Savings on prescription drugs would be between $200 billion and $300 billion a year, if we paid around the same price as other wealthy countries pay for their drugs. A Medicare for All system would save still more with implementation of global health care spending budgets."
Pada you have to keep it short
You know they are not going to read a chapter book and you fail to make you arguement doing so. Condense in you own words and supply link
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Ya know I'm kinda enjoying being a bit of a Bernie troll, though I'm sure there are a few here who will disabuse me of that notion, or make me work like Hell to back it up! Guess this is foreign interference Canadian style and we're left of Bernie up this way!
I'm OK with discussing Bernie's policy positions and fitness for office. What is happening, though is Bernie-bots turn to personal attacks rather than discuss the campaign. It is consistent with Bernie's propaganda-like appeal to emotion during his speeches.

As I've said many times, I mostly agree with Bernie's policies but feel that Elizabeth Warren is the person who is best fit to realize them. Bernie is just a charismatic but otherwise inept political leader. When Trump's recession hits, we need an able leader to see us through the crisis, not a do-nothing and inept leader like Trump or Bernie.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Pada you have to keep it short
You know they are not going to read a chapter book and you fail to make you arguement doing so. Condense in you own words and supply link
Analysis of 22 more studies across the political spectrum are unanimous; single payer saves money by eliminating administration costs and lowering drug prices

So critics can repeat it'll be more expensive until they're red in the face, the reality and the success of Sanders' campaign show nobody but establishment hacks and Trump supporters believe it
 
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