Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
The Carter Foundation certified that Bernie would have lost the popular vote in 2016 and gotten killed in the EC.
Bernie Sanders 2020
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Sanders plan is about as stupid as the people who would vote for him. He doesn't stand a chance against Republicans if this is his idea of how to win.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
And I say for those who do like his plan, be careful what you wish for. I have not looked at it but from what I’ve heard he basically copied the Canadian model closely. I’m not saying we have a terrible system but the wait times for some procedures is really fucked up. I was super impressed with my experience recently and still am being well cared for but I have friends that are waiting months for appointments. Buddy is wearing a diaper like apperattus to hold a softball sized hernia in, hurts like hell and can’t do much, he’s scheduled for end of August
. There are drawbacks , a grapefruit size ball being held in with a belt can’t be good lol.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Bernie's plan is almost certainly worse. His plan is more like a neighborhood pick up game than something a professional would put out. Imagine if the thing passed as is? Four years to make the conversion and he hasn't even worked out how to pay for it or put solid numbers around the budget to literally grow Medicare many times over practically overnight.And I say for those who do like his plan, be careful what you wish for. I have not looked at it but from what I’ve heard he basically copied the Canadian model closely. I’m not saying we have a terrible system but the wait times for some procedures is really fucked up. I was super impressed with my experience recently and still am being well cared for but I have friends that are waiting months for appointments. Buddy is wearing a diaper like apperattus to hold a softball sized hernia in, hurts like hell and can’t do much, he’s scheduled for end of August
I don't wish for his plan. I don't think many people in the US will. It's a non-starter and death to any politician's ambition to become prez. It's a subscription for four more years of Trump.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
The Republican healthcare plan has a 17% approval rating, meaning half of Trump supporters oppose it
M4A has an 80% approval rating among Democrats, 52% approval rating among Republicans, meaning half of Trump supporters support it
Iowa +2
Ohio +1
Michigan +8.5
Pennsylvania +8.5
Sanders is ahead of Donald Trump in the polls in every swing state Hillary Clinton lost that cost her the election in 2016
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
biden is further ahead
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You are nuts. Forcing more than a hundred million people from the healthcare plans they like is political suicide. Doesn't matter though. Sanders can't win the Democratic Party's nomination because he poisoned the well of votes from women and black voters with his ignoring women's rights and antithetical treatment of black rights groups. The man can't get out of his own way.
But most importantly he can't win the general election. Not with that healthcare albatross around his and the DNC's neck. Bernie is a terrible campaigner both for himself and anybody he campaigns for.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You're using the exact same arguments libertarians, conservatives, and establishment Democrats were using against the Affordable Care Act in 2008. "Everyone loves their healthcare!" when the reality is, they don't. Everyone loves their doctor. That's not the same thing as their coverage. The majority of bankruptcies in America are the result of medical charges. When you ask people in other countries who have universal healthcare, they report universally better outcomes at much cheaper prices. The results of single payer, universal healthcare are objectively better, according to the statistics of said countries who've already adopted it in one form or another.
Those who persist in ignorance are the same who insisted on stifling progress in the link between tobacco and lung cancer. Are the same who persist in ignorance who deny climate change. Are the same who persist in ignorance who support trickle down economics.. You get the idea.. They have something to sell..
You're utilizing Centrist talking points John Delaney and Hickenlooper got booed for during the CA Dem convention, so clearly, CA dem voters oppose it..
Delaney and Hickenlooper are currently both polling at 0.5%.. Those 'your guys'? Or are you going to continue to hide behind the pretend claim that you're going to wait for debates to decide who you support?
Blacks and women support Sanders more than white men
That 'albatross' most Democrats overwhelmingly support? Or the one most Republicans support?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
If you want Trump to lose, the only candidates you should be supporting are ones that can energize the progressive base
If you won't, because your ego is too big, the reality is, you actually want Trump to win
So spare us the results when Biden wins the Dem primary by cheating in 2020 and loses to Trump
You will have only yourselves to blame
If you won't, because your ego is too big, the reality is, you actually want Trump to win
So spare us the results when Biden wins the Dem primary by cheating in 2020 and loses to Trump
You will have only yourselves to blame
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
If the Medicare plan that Bernie proposes is a good one, why not make it voluntary? Answer that. Why does Bernie MAKE people give up the plans they like? Answer that. You keep trying to talk or lie your way around that question.
Also, cite the poll that says most Republicans support Bernie's plan. I say you are a fucking liar.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Why not make the ACA voluntary? Why did Obama MAKE people give up the plans they like?
Why did you support it then, but don't support it now?
travisw
Well-Known Member
You know Curtis can't help himself.
The survey he's using is from June 2018.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-progressives/
If you want more current numbers from the same people.
Thirty-nine percent of Republicans said they supported a Medicare-for-all program to some degree, along with 65 percent of independents.
ttps://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-medicare/democrats-support-expanding-medicare-with-some-caveats-that-could-matter-to-voters-idUSKBN1QU189
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
Fuck I hope you all figure this shit out. The pile of shit he’s spewing grows vast and deep
.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Bernie is sinking like a rock in opinion polls FWIW.Fuck I hope you all figure this shit out. The pile of shit he’s spewing grows vast and deep
Seems he hasn't fooled most of the people. Just rock heads like pad.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
"Most" is 39%?
I guess to somebody who thinks 15% is a crushingly large majority, I guess @Padawanbater2 IS dumb enough to cite that ancient poll as proof that conservatives are thirsting to be forced into medicare from plans they like.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
LOL, as I said, "You keep trying to talk or lie your way around that question".
It's a lie that Obamacare made people give up plans they liked. Everybody's coverage remained the same if that's what they wanted.
I asked you a question. You responded with questions. Answer my question directly as I have done to yours.
If the Medicare plan that Bernie proposes is a good one, why not make it voluntary? Answer that.
Why does Bernie MAKE people give up the plans they like? Answer that.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You and about a hundred million other people say the same.
I take my mom to her doctor appointments and been with her through several heath crises. I manage her money too. So I know much more about Medicare from personal experience. It's a good deal. Its as good as most medical plans. It offers cost controls that private plans don't and it has no deductible. There is a co-pay and most people carry extra insurance to cover those costs. My mom pays about 80 bucks a month for that additional coverage. I think if we make Medicare as an option that people can opt for instead of private insurance, eventually most people will migrate to it. But most people need to make the decision on their own and not have the government tell them the must change plans. As you say, your immediate reaction is hell no. Tens of millions of voters would be angry. I think Bernie's plan is a gift to Republicans.
Also, Bernie's plan would expand Medicare too much over too short a period. The growing pains would turn a lot of people off. It's simply a shit stupid plan written by a Senator who has never attempted to do anything before. It's as if it were written by a child.
blu3bird
Well-Known Member
Medicare should be for people who want it or need it. I would much rather stay with and pay for my own health insurance
I can control my own life, I really don't want or need the government to make anymore decisions for me than they already do
Whatever happened to people wanting to be independent and not look for the government to control every facet of their life?
I can control my own life, I really don't want or need the government to make anymore decisions for me than they already do
Whatever happened to people wanting to be independent and not look for the government to control every facet of their life?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
People are pretty happy with with universal healthcare in Canada and other developed countries. They spend less -- a lot less -- than we do and for the most part, people do better in their system than ours.
Put it another way. Other countries think our system is a joke.