• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

best style of grow?? personal choice and opinions encouraged

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
heres another question i've thought about also.... how much stress can a female plant endure without increasing the chance or a hermie?? like could a healthy 4 week old female that was taken from a strong mother withstand super cropping and recoup pretty well without much worry of her turning into a shim?? i think thats always been my biggest concern with topping techniques and the such... the enviroment i was growing in wasnt ideal by any means... so i was afraid i would get hermies anyways, let alone adding stress... now that the enviroment is more stable im more interested in these techinques...
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
and one last thing (can you tell im blazed and board?? my minds running the 500 right now)... its more of a genetics question than anything... ok.. lets say you grow plant A and take clones from her, lets call them AB... lets say you then grow clones AB, but you super crop them (replace supercropping with any HST trainning technique for the question also)... AFTER you supercrop them you take clones from AB, call them AC.. again you take clones from the AB clones and NOT the original mother plant A... Since supercropping changes plant hormones, and the clones from AB were takin after the supercropping, does it change the way clones AC grow at all or are they still identical to the original mother plant A?? my gut is saying that group AC will still be identical to A.. that it doesnt change the growth genetics of the clones, just the hormones within the plant... but i was wondering if all the changing of hormones would change the clones if you kept taking clones from the plants you HST.. and i dont mean change into hermie... im talkin about changing in the sense they begin to grow more like the plants that were supercropped without having to be supercropped themselves... i guess it comes down to this.. IF YOU SUPERCROP (or whatever tech. you want to use), TAKE CLONES FROM THOSE PLANTS, GROW AND HST THEM, SO ON AND SO ON CAN YOU TRAIN YOUR CLONES TO START GROWING IN A SUPER CROPPED FASHION WITHOUT HAVING TO SUPER CROP THEM THEMSELVES?? again i know nothing about these techniques, and im sure the questions i have seem like noob questions, but seeings as im just starting to look into these techniques ill call my self a noob when it comes to them...
 

CRYSTAL ICEMAN

Well-Known Member
Your boy in your advar looks like a big softy! I have a Red Nose that is all show but when it comes down to it he's just my Big Baby!! Sounds like your going to have some sleepless nights ahead, planning this out will take some time but should be BAD ASS!!
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
yeah.. he is a big baby... arent they all.. ha ha he'll take care of shit tho... my female is a bitch tho... hard core... she is half his size and is able to keep him in line...

as far as the set up goes i have it all figured out... veg side will have the 4 lights im using now... flower side will have 4 hps.... im just fenced on wether i do a scrog/sog with about 25-30 2-3 foot tall plants under 600w hps or 15ish 4-5 foot plants under 1000w hps lights... im gonna start trying out different techniques so im trying to gather personal opinions and experiences as a way to help me make a decision...
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
its actually 2.3x3m.. but your saying your tent is 1x1m right DON GIN?? assuming that is 1mx1m, its 9 sqft right?? 1x1m = approx. 3ftx3ft = approx 9 sq.ft. in the end... so you have 4 plants in your space which means each plant gets 2.25 sq.ft. of growing space... i have 63 sq.ft. total... which is 7x the sq.ft as yours.. 7x the space times 4 plants (your setup) = 28 plants.. which would still be the same square footage of grow area per plant as your tent has... if i grew 10 plants with 63 sq.ft. thats 6.3 sq.ft. of growing space per plant or almost a 1mx1m space for each plant... ok... so now that i have the math figured out.. may i ask how large your plants get?? and what strain you grow??
my tent is the slightly bigger one 1.2m x 1.2, sorry my maths was off haha 28 girls is a boat load of dope fella! sweeet. my plants generally get to about 5ft with the pot, my present lot is gonna be lower cos i topped early n im bending and pinching the fuck out of them so maybe only 4ft.

ive been doing a lot of different strains but in terms of yeild id say the best were blue moonshine trainwreck and ktrain, currently ak48/ chiesel, due in 3 weeks
shmooooooke:joint:
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
heres another question i've thought about also.... how much stress can a female plant endure without increasing the chance or a hermie?? like could a healthy 4 week old female that was taken from a strong mother withstand super cropping and recoup pretty well without much worry of her turning into a shim?? i think thats always been my biggest concern with topping techniques and the such... the enviroment i was growing in wasnt ideal by any means... so i was afraid i would get hermies anyways, let alone adding stress... now that the enviroment is more stable im more interested in these techinques...
there's been many debates over this but the truth is a strain will hermie if it wants to, you can fuck with the light shedule and do allsorts to try n hermie a plant for breeeding purposes but its down to the genetics that made the seed in the first place. supercropping bending lst etc wont hermie a plant!
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
and one last thing (can you tell im blazed and board?? my minds running the 500 right now)... its more of a genetics question than anything... ok.. lets say you grow plant A and take clones from her, lets call them AB... lets say you then grow clones AB, but you super crop them (replace supercropping with any HST trainning technique for the question also)... AFTER you supercrop them you take clones from AB, call them AC.. again you take clones from the AB clones and NOT the original mother plant A... Since supercropping changes plant hormones, and the clones from AB were takin after the supercropping, does it change the way clones AC grow at all or are they still identical to the original mother plant A?? my gut is saying that group AC will still be identical to A.. that it doesnt change the growth genetics of the clones, just the hormones within the plant... but i was wondering if all the changing of hormones would change the clones if you kept taking clones from the plants you HST.. and i dont mean change into hermie... im talkin about changing in the sense they begin to grow more like the plants that were supercropped without having to be supercropped themselves... i guess it comes down to this.. IF YOU SUPERCROP (or whatever tech. you want to use), TAKE CLONES FROM THOSE PLANTS, GROW AND HST THEM, SO ON AND SO ON CAN YOU TRAIN YOUR CLONES TO START GROWING IN A SUPER CROPPED FASHION WITHOUT HAVING TO SUPER CROP THEM THEMSELVES?? again i know nothing about these techniques, and im sure the questions i have seem like noob questions, but seeings as im just starting to look into these techniques ill call my self a noob when it comes to them...
oooooooooook haha genetics are genetics when you supercrop a plant all your doing is snapping the stamen of the stem which will cause the cell walls to mishape and re form causing the elbow, temporarily causing the hormones to move to lower/side branches hence the bushing out. the genetic traits of the strain are still the same and would be passed on to the clones regardless of how the mother plant was treated. its like breaking your elbow as a kid when you grow up and have a baby it doesnt have a bent arm!

:joint:don
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
so i know im definatly not doing 28 plants if i end up growing the a fewer plant setup... no worries that your math was off by .2x.2 meters bro... it might mean the difference of 4 plants in that example math i did...not a big deal... just a guide line i was sorta using as an example to make sure im figuring things right... actually... now that i do the math.. that .2x.2 meters made a much bigger difference.. lol this is the nice thing about doing some of this before i start blazin for the day.. the cloud isnt as thick to work through..

1.2m 1.2 = approx 4ft x 4ft = approx 16 sq./ft.. which means each of your girls gets 4 sq.ft....
63sq.ft (my room) divded by 16sq.ft (your room) = approx 4
4 plants (your setup) times 4 (size diff between our rooms) = 16

so.. if you can hold 4 - 5 foot tall girls in your tent you would fit 16 5 foot girls in my setup... now this sounds much better... amazing how much that .2m made a diff...

second thing... so your saying that a femenized seed would have to genetically be predisposed to show hermie traits in order for it too? that regardless of stress caused to the plant it will not induce hermies?? that is fuckin awesome... seriously... thank you for that... i havent ever gotten a concrete answer like that.. and its the biggest factor in me never topping my plants at all.. im always afraid of wasting my time (ending up with males and hermies) so its kept me from many growing tech experiments... but knowing that the femenized seeds im getting wont turn hermie (probably) unless they are genetically predetermined to is really a nice thought...


and lastly.. the genetics thing...

first off bending our elbow doesnt change out hormone levels... so argueing its like us bending our elbow isnt a fair arguement.. it neither stresses us or changes our hormones... here is the basis of my idea... i will use alcoholism as an example of this... mother A is a heavy drinking alcoholic... has been for a few years... she has daughter B... almostly certainly daughter B will be predisposed to be a drinker.... mother A caused a genetic change in daughter B from a variable, this case alcohol, that was introduced before the pregnancy.... same thing with crack babies whos mother smoked crack... their genetics cause the babies to "need crack" due to the affects and changes on the mothers... their genetic changes causes physical symptoms after/at birth that have nothing to do with them, and are caused by a variable that changed the mother, who, in the beginning was healthy and not an alcoholic/crack head/ect.. now i know this is slightly crazy thinking... but its just my arguement as to why i was inquiring about it.. im not trying to prove my statement right... just explaining the logical reasonning behind asking... obviously plants dont follow the same traits as humans...

but

what you say still make sense... even with the elbow arguement out of the way... and now that im not thinking stoner i found my flaw in my idea... in my scenario the mother is introducing a variable that causes physical, mental, and chemical changes with them... they become dependant on the variable to survive, with survive being used to cover everything from day to day living without side affects/withdraw symptoms to avoiding death from withdrawl on the other extreme... as you said bending the plant just messes with the hormones, and the plant eventually corrects itself... it doesnt become "dependant" on the bending or pinching as a means to survive... so as logical as my thought was while i was stoned... i think... it was only logical because i was stoned... it really doesnt make sense now... lol
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
so i know im definatly not doing 28 plants if i end up growing the a fewer plant setup... no worries that your math was off by .2x.2 meters bro... it might mean the difference of 4 plants in that example math i did...not a big deal... just a guide line i was sorta using as an example to make sure im figuring things right... actually... now that i do the math.. that .2x.2 meters made a much bigger difference.. lol this is the nice thing about doing some of this before i start blazin for the day.. the cloud isnt as thick to work through..

haha my maths was off n i wasnt shtoooned :shock:

1.2m 1.2 = approx 4ft x 4ft = approx 16 sq./ft.. which means each of your girls gets 4 sq.ft....
63sq.ft (my room) divded by 16sq.ft (your room) = approx 4
4 plants (your setup) times 4 (size diff between our rooms) = 16

16's definitely a more manageable number to work with than 28

so.. if you can hold 4 - 5 foot tall girls in your tent you would fit 16 5 foot girls in my setup... now this sounds much better... amazing how much that .2m made a diff...

id maybe think about a couple less than 16 just so you can actually get in to tend to them, its a bitch having to lift them out to bend them n then put them back in in height order etc, n I've only got 4 haha

second thing... so your saying that a femenized seed would have to genetically be predisposed to show hermie traits in order for it too? that regardless of stress caused to the plant it will not induce hermies?? that is fuckin awesome... seriously... thank you for that... i havent ever gotten a concrete answer like that.. and its the biggest factor in me never topping my plants at all.. im always afraid of wasting my time (ending up with males and hermies) so its kept me from many growing tech experiments... but knowing that the femenized seeds im getting wont turn hermie (probably) unless they are genetically predetermined to is really a nice thought...

probably is the operative word here dude, researching strains is your best bet on finding a good strain that wont hermie, certain ones are more prone (blue moonshine for example, but then again this depends on the mother and father involved for that seed batch). now heres the interesting bit a plant that is intersexed i.e grows male bananas when crossed back to the same plant via a cutting from the mother will produce feminised seeds but will probably hermie late in flower. ive got this happening with one of my AK's now. im lookin on it as a good thing to have the pollen to cross later depends how you look at it i guess. your probably better off getting a reg seed and cloning to ensure no seeds in your circumstance.

and lastly.. the genetics thing...

first off bending our elbow doesnt change out hormone levels... so argueing its like us bending our elbow isnt a fair arguement.. it neither stresses us or changes our hormones... here is the basis of my idea... i will use alcoholism as an example of this... mother A is a heavy drinking alcoholic... has been for a few years... she has daughter B... almostly certainly daughter B will be predisposed to be a drinker.... mother A caused a genetic change in daughter B from a variable, this case alcohol, that was introduced before the pregnancy.... same thing with crack babies whos mother smoked crack... their genetics cause the babies to "need crack" due to the affects and changes on the mothers... their genetic changes causes physical symptoms after/at birth that have nothing to do with them, and are caused by a variable that changed the mother, who, in the beginning was healthy and not an alcoholic/crack head/ect.. now i know this is slightly crazy thinking... but its just my arguement as to why i was inquiring about it.. im not trying to prove my statement right... just explaining the logical reasonning behind asking... obviously plants dont follow the same traits as humans...

I was using the elbow point just to illustrate that the genetic blueprint isnt changed from mother to child/clone regardless of variables like bending. and im not trying to pick fault here but your argument with alcohol and crack doesnt quite work in that alcoholism and crack dependancy dont change genetic makeup, as crack babies when they reach say 6 months old have gone cold turkey and no longer rattle for the crack. alcoholics children dont need alcohol at birth the genetic blueprint doesnt change when they are born with brain disorderes its more a side effect/result. duuuuude i wrote all that then read the para below n realised i didnt need to baaaaaaaaahahahahah DOH...:joint:

but

what you say still make sense... even with the elbow arguement out of the way... and now that im not thinking stoner i found my flaw in my idea... in my scenario the mother is introducing a variable that causes physical, mental, and chemical changes with them... they become dependant on the variable to survive, with survive being used to cover everything from day to day living without side affects/withdraw symptoms to avoiding death from withdrawl on the other extreme... as you said bending the plant just messes with the hormones, and the plant eventually corrects itself... it doesnt become "dependant" on the bending or pinching as a means to survive... so as logical as my thought was while i was stoned... i think... it was only logical because i was stoned... it really doesnt make sense now... lol
you gonna do a journal???:joint:
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
lol thats a lotta shit to read and respond to... so ill forgive you for missing the last paragraph... :) shit happens... i would have done it too honestly...

anyways.. yea... i sorta have a journal going now with a few plants... look for thread "3rd week of flowering"... i dont know how to link threads and shit... but it has a lot of info on my set up and where im going with my set up... plenty of pics to look at... pretty little girls... check it out... tell me what you think!

but once i am done with this grow and switch to my hydo im going to keep a legit journal going...
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
lol thats a lotta shit to read and respond to... so ill forgive you for missing the last paragraph... :) shit happens... i would have done it too honestly...

anyways.. yea... i sorta have a journal going now with a few plants... look for thread "3rd week of flowering"... i dont know how to link threads and shit... but it has a lot of info on my set up and where im going with my set up... plenty of pics to look at... pretty little girls... check it out... tell me what you think!

but once i am done with this grow and switch to my hydo im going to keep a legit journal going...
i was just replying as i went lol ill check out ya journo soon man!
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
so i think ive narrowed it down to what i think will be my 2 options...

1) 10-12 plants that are all about 4-5 feet high (post flowering height)... ill start playing with different cropping/topping techniques to see which works best.. i figure with the 1000w hps bulbs i should pretty much get yield from top to bottom of the plant with the top 2/3 having giant buds and the bottom 1/3 smaller guys.. is that a fair guess... im basing this on what ive read so correct me if im wrong..

2) 20-25 plants that are about 2-3 ft tall post flowering... pretty much minimal pruning due to the fact this will take up all the space i have so moving around to prune will be a bitch.... ill use 4-600's with this setup instead of the 4-1000's...

i wont LST the plants because the pots with the hydro system i bought are only 2 gallon... in the end will i end up with about the same yield?? i know with the 1000s ill get fewer buds but they will be the size of the leg of an 8 year old, denser, and just overall have a more jaw dropping appearance... with the 600s ill still get amazing buds, and plenty good sized, with a little less elec cost and the added benefit of their effciency... when i used to buy bud i know i liked getting giant fuckin colas.. the bigger the better.. now.. as a grower.. i dont know if i could bring myself to breaking a bud down to make weight... like cutting a 10 oz bud down to make it a 4 oz and 6 oz bud.. i dunno... anyways... every man has his price huh?? for the right price im sure i wouldnt be to heart broken.. ha ha ha back to the point... what would you do in this situation?? anyone have any other arguments/suggestions/experiences to add??
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
this ones your call ultimately but id go with the smaller and larger. two main reasons, less to prune and worry about should it all go tits up n the law find it and i like to see a plant at full maturity rather than SOG with just the main cola, its like clipping a birds wings lol that might just be me tho, you can get more bud from sog sure but the plant never gets to fully reach its shape, dunno what difference if any it makes mind
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
i think ill prolly just go with fewer and larger.... something bout the giant nugs makes me happy... as far as if something should ever happen... i dunno.. i suppose a good lawyer could make an arguement work in court for only having a few plants so it doesnt look quite like an opp .... i couldnt keep a straight face and even begin to pretend its all personals tho... thank god we dont have to defend ourselves.. i could just see it now...


judge - "so sir, what do you have to say for yourself?"

me - "umm... what about mr judge man"

judge - "about the 15 plants we found with a street value of 2 million dollars" (you know how the law enforcement loves to exagerate street values just a little to make their busts sound better)

me - "oh.. that... uhh.. did you want some judge.. i wont charge ya man... you seem like a nice guy... and props on the robe... it brings your eyes out... are my eyes red still?? i smoked a fatty like you wouldnt believe before this... anyone else hungry?? im got the munchies like a mo fo.. hey judge man you should use you hammer thingy and make some order a pizza... and get some ice cream.. and some fun-ions... oh and some kebler cookies... and some pop.. i have cotton mouth too..."

judge - "order in the court, order in the court"

me - "judge sir thats what im talkin about!! im tryin to order and you interrupted me... now where was i?? uhhhh..... damn im too high for this... can we just maybe move the hearing.... to like my couch or something?? i have a bong and munchies.. itll be ok"

thats as far as the funny court room fantasy in my head has went... im always having these day dreams that are somewhere between robot chicken, the ransom family guy skits, and dr dorians day dreams from scrubs... they keep me entertained in times of bordom...
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
on a more serious note... do you really think setup 2, the sog setup, will yield more than setup 1, the larger but fewer plants?? even with the 1000's and the penetration power and all that good stuff?? im concerned with yield more than anything... not really getting the best gram per watt efficiency since im pretty sure i would yield more that way with the 600s... but can a sog setup with 600s really out yield a fewer/bigger style grow using 1000s?? my curiosity keeps getting sparked more and more.. i would like to know this... the numbers would make me believe the 1000s would stomp on the 600s, but since it would be 2 different grows the numbers dont matter as much... hmmm... know anyone who can answer this question from experince?
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
haahahah thats some funny shit dude the train of thought is beautiful hhhahaha. your honour id like to represent myself with this here blunt......

to be honest i reckon the yeild will be much the same between option 1 or 2. the buds will look more impressive with setup 1 tho.

cant really advise on the 600 vs 1000 question i only ever worked with 600 but more light = more bud surely
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
yeah.. i am pretty sure either way ill have similar over all yields... but i had a dream about using a bud as an xmas tree so i think ill go with the 1000s... do about 9 plants... sounds good to me.. now just gotta pass the time until i can get the loot together to do it right... im guessing itll be around 4000 for everything i need... i really hope this harvest is a good one.... otherwise itll be like 5 months.... damn.. i dont think i can wait that long...

so im thinkin bout if i want to switch strains or not... i can get my hands on some bobblekush, chemdog, and/or OGkush clones.. got any input on any of these strains?? typical growth patterns, flowering time, average yield, ect ect......
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
the 1000's with 9 plants will be huuuuge dude 4$K is a lot to lay out man your gonna need a crop just to pay for the setup haha...


cant help with the strains man most you mention are clone only in the US theres a lotta hype around chemdog and og kush, the og kush will bring you more $$$
 

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
i need a good crop this time to make the 4 g's needed... actually i need less than a pound harvest... but i wanna make sure i still have plenty for myself!! 4 lights, reflectors, exhaust fans, a second hydro system, all that shit... it adds up really fast... nice thing is that for the most part its all one time purchases... and itll more than be worth it in the end...

so is ogkush a better yielder you think?? or just better smoke?? im gonna end up ordering seeds sometime in the next year.. i think i want to wait a while until i get used to the hydro systems and the nutes and all that... familiarize myself with the new equipment a little before i drop money on seeds.. id hate to kill off a plant due to some stupid mistake i made... what really sucks is i have a friend whos old dealer grows some ak-47 for his personal stash... when me and my buddy were moving weight for him he was more than cool with selling us as many ak clones as we want for 50 bucks a piece... after we started growin ourselves, which to him meant we were his competition even though he only grew for himself, he wanted 200 a clone... now he wont even sell any clones... buncha shit right?? it would have been cheaper to just buy some feminized ak seeds and start from the get go than to even talk to dude about the clones... hes a douche bag anyways... but he is a douche bag with ak clones... would have been nice... but it makes me want to just grow a buncha that and sell it just to fuck with him... lol ya right... thats not my style... i grow for the enjoyment of growing and my love for being high.... the money is an added benefit, dont get me wrong.. but i stay far away from the business end of things... i grow and my partner takes care of the rest... its a good relationship...
 

Don Gin and Ton

Well-Known Member
i need a good crop this time to make the 4 g's needed... actually i need less than a pound harvest... but i wanna make sure i still have plenty for myself!! 4 lights, reflectors, exhaust fans, a second hydro system, all that shit... it adds up really fast... nice thing is that for the most part its all one time purchases... and itll more than be worth it in the end...

so is ogkush a better yielder you think?? or just better smoke?? im gonna end up ordering seeds sometime in the next year.. i think i want to wait a while until i get used to the hydro systems and the nutes and all that... familiarize myself with the new equipment a little before i drop money on seeds.. id hate to kill off a plant due to some stupid mistake i made... what really sucks is i have a friend whos old dealer grows some ak-47 for his personal stash... when me and my buddy were moving weight for him he was more than cool with selling us as many ak clones as we want for 50 bucks a piece... after we started growin ourselves, which to him meant we were his competition even though he only grew for himself, he wanted 200 a clone... now he wont even sell any clones... buncha shit right?? it would have been cheaper to just buy some feminized ak seeds and start from the get go than to even talk to dude about the clones... hes a douche bag anyways... but he is a douche bag with ak clones... would have been nice... but it makes me want to just grow a buncha that and sell it just to fuck with him... lol ya right... thats not my style... i grow for the enjoyment of growing and my love for being high.... the money is an added benefit, dont get me wrong.. but i stay far away from the business end of things... i grow and my partner takes care of the rest... its a good relationship...
yeah man folks like that aren't worth doin' business with man. and you deffo have the right idea, grow weed or sell weed doing both will land you in trouble real fast. unless your really low key.

as for the kush i wouldnt know if it was a better yeilder tbh but kush is what the kids are going crazy for apparently, by the time your ready to roll things may have changed, do your research think about paying dollar for a a real good clone from out of your area. then you can be the one with the new shiz making the dollar....

positioning yourself is the key to makin money and not getting big time:joint:
 
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