BHO trim run, best way?

OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
budchemist said:
Setting up your own test lab without the technical background is a very steep ask. HPLC has high maintenance costs and requires access to restricted solvents and equipment. There are quite a few small labs in Canada that are licensed to test cannabis products https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/list-licensed-dealers.html A lot of these labs offer testing to the public and when legalization occurs you could access these labs. We get testing of oil products done at an accredited laboratory at a cost of $40 per sample.
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I do have a bit of a related technical background. I went back to school in my early 30s for 3 years and got myself a diploma in environmental chemistry at B.C.I.T in Burnaby, BC. That was almost 30 years ago though so I'm a bit rusty to say the least. Hands-on lab work was where I excelled and did the organic chemistry theory a 2nd time as I needed more class hours to maintain full-time student status in my last year.

Running a business is way over my pay grade tho. Luckily I have a sister who runs her own bookkeeping business so she can help with that part of it.

It's really just an idea that's been running around my head for a while. I'd like to get involved in the cannabis business and there sure isn't going to much for the small supplier to make a profit off soon in the legal marketplace.

In the meantime I am in the market for a testing lab that's not too pricey and $40 per sample is almost half the price of what I've been looking at with Supra THC Services in BC. They take samples from ACMPR clients and I do have my doctors recommendation but not licensed to grow from Hellth Canaduh so not sure if they would test for me. My doctor's note just expired and he's not back until Oct and up here in northern Alberta it's damn hard to find one to renew for me tho I'm seeing the new guy again soon and will see if he will do it tho it's very unlikely as he's new and not from Canada originally. Most are from South Africa but I don't think he is. French name and much paler than most South African doctors we get.

Thanks for the info and links!

:peace:
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
budchemist said:
Food dehydrator is great if you are in a hurry. I have been using silica gel https://www.amazon.ca/Lockdown-Silica-Gel-750-grams/dp/B004QUIWAA/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1535586544&sr=8-14&keywords=silica+gel I put the product in a sealed container and leave it overnight.
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I've have a big jar of Drierite colour changing crystals and they sell them in bulk or small packs like the Bovida ones. Mainly using it to dry pollen and seeds for storage but might use it to dry pot for small extractions as well. I just bake it the oven when it goes from blue to pink to dry it out for re-use. I worked in a hazardous disposal plant as a chemist and it came home with me from work. Lot of stuff did. :)
 
B

budchemist

Active Member
OldMedUser said:
I do have a bit of a related technical background. I went back to school in my early 30s for 3 years and got myself a diploma in environmental chemistry at B.C.I.T in Burnaby, BC. That was almost 30 years ago though so I'm a bit rusty to say the least. Hands-on lab work was where I excelled and did the organic chemistry theory a 2nd time as I needed more class hours to maintain full-time student status in my last year.

Running a business is way over my pay grade tho. Luckily I have a sister who runs her own bookkeeping business so she can help with that part of it.

It's really just an idea that's been running around my head for a while. I'd like to get involved in the cannabis business and there sure isn't going to much for the small supplier to make a profit off soon in the legal marketplace.

In the meantime I am in the market for a testing lab that's not too pricey and $40 per sample is almost half the price of what I've been looking at with Supra THC Services in BC. They take samples from ACMPR clients and I do have my doctors recommendation but not licensed to grow from Hellth Canaduh so not sure if they would test for me. My doctor's note just expired and he's not back until Oct and up here in northern Alberta it's damn hard to find one to renew for me tho I'm seeing the new guy again soon and will see if he will do it tho it's very unlikely as he's new and not from Canada originally. Most are from South Africa but I don't think he is. French name and much paler than most South African doctors we get.

Thanks for the info and links!

:peace:
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Sweet, that will definitely serve you well if you go down that path. Analytical technology has improved but the basic technologies havent really changed. I agree access to medical marijuana a challenge in Northern Alberta. Most people I know that need medical marijuana go the non-legit pathway.
 
xX1cEpikKXx

xX1cEpikKXx

Well-Known Member
budchemist said:
No pentane will behave near identical to butane. The biggest issue is that you will extract all the waxes with your cannabinoids. For my vape mixes I need to dewax or it destroys the atomizer.
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I read somewhere that freezing the oil makes the fat seperate and you can just scrape off the top layer?
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
xX1cEpikKXx said:
I read somewhere that freezing the oil makes the fat seperate and you can just scrape off the top layer?
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That's for when you make budder. No fats in BHO.

Most people make budder with butter and water in something like a rice cooker. The oils, fats and waxes get dissolved into the butter and the water soluble stuff like chlorophyll, starches and sugars stay in the water. After it's cooked up you can just refrigerate it or freeze it then lift the butter off the top. Works better if it's just refrigerated tho. Then all the crap you don't want is left in the water and you can toss that out.

Same kind of thing happens when you make oil for smoking using alcohol as it will dissolve both oils and sugars etc. Various methods are used to clean that out of your pot oil to make it better but a pure hydrocarbon like butane or naphtha gets very little of the crud and just gets the resin you want so it's less yield but higher quality. Freezing the alcohol pot and containers used first and rinsing the pot fast will get a better quality oil for smoking. Search QWISO for more info.

40 years ago I used to boil ground up fan leaves in iso for 4 hours then filter that to get really crap oil but people would still buy it for $10g. :D

:peace:
 
Carolina Dream'n

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
budchemist said:
This really depends on your extraction solvent. Water interferes with butane extraction as the two solvents are not miscible. For butane extractions completely dried and ground product is the best.
Ethanol extractions can be done with fresh or dried product. The freezing breaks down the cell wall of the cannabis and increases extraction yield. I prefer dried and ground but that is just me.
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You have this backwards.

Butane is a non polar solvent. Chlorophyll is polar. Which is why at the same temperature, butane extracts will come out better color than ethanol, which contains polar and non polar characteristics, but will be more of a full spectrum extract. Ethanol extractions are done at extremely low temps to freeze any water and chlorophyll, leaving it behind. Butane extractions ,with fresh frozen material, are also done at extremely low temperatures to freeze any water left in material.
 
Carolina Dream'n

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
That's for when you make budder. No fats in BHO.

Most people make budder with butter and water in something like a rice cooker. The oils, fats and waxes get dissolved into the butter and the water soluble stuff like chlorophyll, starches and sugars stay in the water. After it's cooked up you can just refrigerate it or freeze it then lift the butter off the top. Works better if it's just refrigerated tho. Then all the crap you don't want is left in the water and you can toss that out.

Same kind of thing happens when you make oil for smoking using alcohol as it will dissolve both oils and sugars etc. Various methods are used to clean that out of your pot oil to make it better but a pure hydrocarbon like butane or naphtha gets very little of the crud and just gets the resin you want so it's less yield but higher quality. Freezing the alcohol pot and containers used first and rinsing the pot fast will get a better quality oil for smoking. Search QWISO for more info.

40 years ago I used to boil ground up fan leaves in iso for 4 hours then filter that to get really crap oil but people would still buy it for $10g. :D

:peace:
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No fats in BHO?!??? Lol too funny. Sounds like you need some real lab experience before making claims.

Dewaxing sleeves were meant for BHO because it does such a great job at pulling fats, waxes and lipids along with cannabinoids.
xX1cEpikKXx said:
I read somewhere that freezing the oil makes the fat seperate and you can just scrape off the top layer?
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It's a process called winterization. The ethanol/crude mixture is frozen, preferably cryogenic, and filtered through an assortment of different filter plates, filter media, carbon, silicates and many other options depending on what the final product was set out to be.

The simplest way is to dissolve crude into ethanol (1 gram per 20ml) get it as cold as possible and run it through a Buchner filter with filter of your choice.
 
Alterdmind1

Alterdmind1

Active Member
Carolina Dream'n said:
No fats in BHO?!??? Lol too funny. Sounds like you need some real lab experience before making claims.

Dewaxing sleeves were meant for BHO because it does such a great job at pulling fats, waxes and lipids along with cannabinoids.

It's a process called winterization. The ethanol/crude mixture is frozen, preferably cryogenic, and filtered through an assortment of different filter plates, filter media, carbon, silicates and many other options depending on what the final product was set out to be.

The simplest way is to dissolve crude into ethanol (1 gram per 20ml) get it as cold as possible and run it through a Buchner filter with filter of your choice.
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At least someone knows , not just “my boy told me tech”. Knowledge is power, figure shit out the right was do the research and stop listening to people who don’t know what there talking about.
 
Carolina Dream'n

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
Alterdmind1 said:
At least someone knows , not just “my boy told me tech”. Knowledge is power, figure shit out the right was do the research and stop listening to people who don’t know what there talking about.
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The sad part is this is beyond basic chemistry. The pharmaceutical companies processing plants into medicines would be the ones to follow, not a self taught clandestine chemist, such as myself or 95% of any extract companies.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Carolina Dream'n said:
No fats in BHO?!??? Lol too funny. Sounds like you need some real lab experience before making claims.

Dewaxing sleeves were meant for BHO because it does such a great job at pulling fats, waxes and lipids along with cannabinoids.

It's a process called winterization. The ethanol/crude mixture is frozen, preferably cryogenic, and filtered through an assortment of different filter plates, filter media, carbon, silicates and many other options depending on what the final product was set out to be.

The simplest way is to dissolve crude into ethanol (1 gram per 20ml) get it as cold as possible and run it through a Buchner filter with filter of your choice.
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I should have clarified that with. No Fats in MY BHO.

I don't grind the sugar trim/popcorn and run my batches like doing a QWISO so no fats or waxes are picked up. I tried the winterizing on it years ago and there was nothing to filter so why bother.

I'm self-taught in many things but went back to school in my 30s to get a real diploma in environmental chemistry. Good for 2 years uni credit but geared more to getting out in the workforce once you were done.

Certainly not done to industry standards but damn fine for the lack of good equipment. ;)
 
noob246

noob246

Member
How does cbd hold up in the extraction process with butane? I've read tons of stuff about how potent shatter can be but haven't really heard if cbd transfers and if I can make a cbd dominant version with an acute pain relief effect. Personally I think I would rather go with a heat press and make solvent less rosin, typically if I can stay away from chemicals I will. This might be blasphemous when talking about shatter but this year I'm doing some bubble bags cause I'm old school and miss the taste of hash.
 
B

budchemist

Active Member
Carolina Dream'n said:
You have this backwards.

Butane is a non polar solvent. Chlorophyll is polar. Which is why at the same temperature, butane extracts will come out better color than ethanol, which contains polar and non polar characteristics, but will be more of a full spectrum extract. Ethanol extractions are done at extremely low temps to freeze any water and chlorophyll, leaving it behind. Butane extractions ,with fresh frozen material, are also done at extremely low temperatures to freeze any water left in material.
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Not sure where I implied butane was polar. I only indicated they were not miscible.

I will disagree on the butane extraction. Runs much better with dry material. You then dont need to worry as much about temperature or bringing any water/chlorophyl. On the ethanol extraction I completely agree wet is better.
 
B

budchemist

Active Member
Carolina Dream'n said:
No fats in BHO?!??? Lol too funny. Sounds like you need some real lab experience before making claims.

Dewaxing sleeves were meant for BHO because it does such a great job at pulling fats, waxes and lipids along with cannabinoids.

It's a process called winterization. The ethanol/crude mixture is frozen, preferably cryogenic, and filtered through an assortment of different filter plates, filter media, carbon, silicates and many other options depending on what the final product was set out to be.

The simplest way is to dissolve crude into ethanol (1 gram per 20ml) get it as cold as possible and run it through a Buchner filter with filter of your choice.
Click to expand...
I do the ethanol method myself as well. Sintered glass funnels and round bottom flask are dirt cheap on Aliexpress.
 
B

budchemist

Active Member
noob246 said:
How does cbd hold up in the extraction process with butane? I've read tons of stuff about how potent shatter can be but haven't really heard if cbd transfers and if I can make a cbd dominant version with an acute pain relief effect. Personally I think I would rather go with a heat press and make solvent less rosin, typically if I can stay away from chemicals I will. This might be blasphemous when talking about shatter but this year I'm doing some bubble bags cause I'm old school and miss the taste of hash.
Click to expand...
CBD extracts well with butane. I do extractions with 2:1 CBD:THC ratios and it works well.

I am a chemist so I am a little biased when it comes to chemicals. :)
 
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