DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Our names show up blinking in red on Trump's database!
Bi-Partisan Senate report calls for sweeping effort to stop Russian trolls on social media platforms.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Im ok with not being on Trump's Christmas card list.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
The war as begun, some fight the foreign threat, some the domestic, all enemies foreign and domestic. The battle is for the constitution in your country, the foundation and bulwark of freedom, but it is really against liberalism a broad assault on the institutions of liberty, the press, the courts, the legislatures, the voters, you name it.
Fortunately, you know what you are fighting for and have a clear purpose and intention, they are fuzzy headed at best, but united by bigotry and racism, that's the cement that holds the aggregate of grievance together. There are other causes like globalization, low skill unemployment and a life time of conditioning about how the world should be and a willingness to seek out narratives that support this world view. Unfortunately these sources have different agendas and when Trump goes those differences will become more apparent, as they will in the democratic party. The domestic disinformation sources have been united behind Trump and joined at the hip, he wants voters and they want an audience and ad revenue, or simply to promote an agenda that involves social division. Halting social and political progress using culture wars so they simple won't have to pay taxes and can have more "freedom" and control over government through the elected GOP.
The domestic disinformation system evolved over decades and is not under singular control and has no greater purpose than greed and driving an agenda that gives them an advantage, by subtilty using racism. Aristotle noted in ancient times if we provide a narrative of events, we can make the thoughts of others flow along channels that cut ever deeper into the mind over time and reinforcement. The decades old disinformation machine of hate radio, publications and TV has greatly expanded recently and YouTube, Facebook and twitter, offer not just new ways of spreading disinformation and propaganda (false or misleading narratives), but emotional and social support too, a sense of community, a tribe. Algorithms monitor our biases and preferences then reinforce them too creating a perfect social storm of unresolved social warfare colliding with information technology and globalization, with Trump in the center of the perfect storm consuming a polarized nation.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
in this thread's OP. This is the original (2018 ) report on the attack on our nation. The other thread is the second report that came out.
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
Here you go @hanimmal if you haven't seen this yet, very important read.
Free Russia Foundation THINK TANK • Aquarium Leaks. Inside the GRU’s Psychological Warfare Program
In this exclusive and groundbreaking report, Free Russia Foundation has translated and published five documents from the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency. The documents, obtained and analyzed by Free Russia Foundation’s Director of Special Investigations Michael Weiss, details the...
www.4freerussia.org
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I remember reading the Aquarium decades ago by a Russian GRU agent who defected to the west. Same idea, he was a regular spy though operating mostly in western EuropeHere you go @hanimmal if you haven't seen this yet, very important read.
Free Russia Foundation THINK TANK • Aquarium Leaks. Inside the GRU’s Psychological Warfare Program
In this exclusive and groundbreaking report, Free Russia Foundation has translated and published five documents from the GRU, Russia’s military intelligence agency. The documents, obtained and analyzed by Free Russia Foundation’s Director of Special Investigations Michael Weiss, details the...www.4freerussia.org
Aquarium (Suvorov) - Wikipedia
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Like I said, they give me a chance to rant at them. I know there are millions of Americans who would like to strangle the fucks with their bare hands and their number is growing by thousands daily.
Part of the solution is not love and understanding, but derision and excoriation, you fight lies with the truth, sometimes the blunt truth. Don't get into the weeds with them, go for motives and intentions on moral and ethical issues. Go for the throat and call them out right off the bat. Just ask them if Trump is an asshole, provoke a response from the ambiguous and fence sitters. They will seldom reveal their true motives that would be embarrassing and even dangerous, overt racism can get you fired or destroy your life. It is this cognitive dissidence caused by their conditioning, current reality and their failure to psychologically adapt that is the main issue. Most everything else including guns and the role of government etc, is smoke and mirrors. The NRA was a white gun owners con job, gun owning blacks were murdered by cops with impunity.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Make the tax variable and set by a committee, based upon how much information /vs disinformation they create and propagate. Put a cost on bullshit, an economic disincentive, these companies are reaching into other countries and destroying local media that people depend on. America needs to do something about it or you will be treated like the Russians or any other source of disinformation and propaganda. Anti mask and antivaccer bullshit kills Canadians and other people as well as Americans. A ban from the EU and Canada along with whoever else has an issue with it (most everybody) will do a lot to help fix America, who is incapable of protecting itself from it. We will provide the firewall software for free and help configure systems.
Zuck only cares about the bucks and the buck might stop at the US border. Trump would have broken treaties and the law over taxes and attempts to curb bullshit. Steps to curb disinformation on social media platforms would probably be quietly welcomed by Joe, his allies might do what he can't. Win the senate and you can take care of the domestic broadcast and cable disinformation system using their covid coverage to destroy them and put fox in a box. Your Canadian, Australian, EU and other allies can have a conference about it and choke it on the internet by cutting the ad revenue and eyeballs they reach. They will do the work for profit, but for nothing else and they make money with disinformation now.
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Trudeau's digital tax flexes Canada's muscles with Trump on the way out - POLITICO
Trudeau's digital tax flexes Canada's muscles with Trump on the way out
"The idea that Canada would go ahead with an early tax probably would have invited a tariff by Trump," says one observer.
OTTAWA — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's bolder stance on digital taxes could be an early sign Canada is ready to take more chances with a Biden presidency next door.
By comparison, Trudeau’s government always walked on eggshells around the unpredictable Trump administration.
Now it's threatening to go it alone with a tax on tech giants like Google, Amazon and Facebook — a stand it may never have taken had President Donald Trump won reelection.
Canada's readiness to impose a unilateral digital tax on the revenues of large web companies — almost all of which are U.S.-based — could be a test of the new cross-border dynamic following President-elect Joe Biden’s election win.
Biden is expected to oppose unilateral digital taxes just like his predecessor. But his victory is also widely expected to restore a neighborly tone and, perhaps, bring an end to U.S. tariff threats directed north of the frontier.
Just tough talk? A closer read of the situation suggests Canada may never actually have to act alone on a digital tax — and that the announcement may be more about posturing than anything concrete.
The Liberal government said it will impose the unilateral tax in January 2022, but only if international talks aimed at finding a global solution to the issue fail to strike a deal. There’s optimism the negotiations could produce an agreement by mid-2021.
Tip-toeing around Trump: The president provoked a major trade showdown by imposing punishing tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum during the NAFTA talks. In the process, he even lashed out on Twitter at Trudeau himself, calling him “Very dishonest & weak.”
Since the start, Trudeau has been particularly cautious in public appearances and comments involving Trump. Canada’s prime minister even reportedly rehearsed how to shake hands before their first meeting in February 2017 so he would be able to come off strong while not antagonizing the president.
Behind the walk back: Trudeau’s Liberals promised during Canada’s 2019 election campaign to impose a unilateral tax on Big Tech. But after winning reelection, the government moved away from the pledge, right around the time Trump threatened to hit France with levies on its goods over plans from Paris to unilaterally tax digital giants.
Washington has argued the French digital tax would disproportionately hurt U.S. companies.
Almost certainly taking note, the Liberal government abandoned its campaign promise and said it was content to wait for a global digital tax agreement to emerge from ongoing talks involving 135 countries and led by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.
“The idea that Canada would go ahead with an early tax probably would have invited a tariff by Trump,” Jack Mintz, a University of Calgary tax policy expert, said in an interview about the Liberals’ decision to hold off on going solo with a digital tax.
“It may have been [that] the Canadian government didn’t want to poke the hornet’s nest … It made sense, I think, for Canada to probably back off from that point.”
Bolder steps during a Biden transition: Michael Geist, chair of internet and e-commerce law at the University of Ottawa, said after the U.S. response became readily apparent the Trudeau government appeared to backtrack from its digital-tax promise.
"The opposition to the French proposal was unsurprising and I think we can expect the same kind of opposition from the U.S. on the Canadian proposal, if it goes ahead,” Geist said in an interview.
He warned it would be a miscalculation on Canada’s part if it’s moving forward now because it predicts a softer reaction from Biden.
“I see little reason to expect that a Biden administration would act or respond much differently to a unilateral proposal to siphon away tax revenue from the U.S. to another country,” Geist said. “It doesn’t matter whether it’s Canada, France or any other country.”
Zuck only cares about the bucks and the buck might stop at the US border. Trump would have broken treaties and the law over taxes and attempts to curb bullshit. Steps to curb disinformation on social media platforms would probably be quietly welcomed by Joe, his allies might do what he can't. Win the senate and you can take care of the domestic broadcast and cable disinformation system using their covid coverage to destroy them and put fox in a box. Your Canadian, Australian, EU and other allies can have a conference about it and choke it on the internet by cutting the ad revenue and eyeballs they reach. They will do the work for profit, but for nothing else and they make money with disinformation now.
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Trudeau's digital tax flexes Canada's muscles with Trump on the way out - POLITICO
Trudeau's digital tax flexes Canada's muscles with Trump on the way out
"The idea that Canada would go ahead with an early tax probably would have invited a tariff by Trump," says one observer.
OTTAWA — Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's bolder stance on digital taxes could be an early sign Canada is ready to take more chances with a Biden presidency next door.
By comparison, Trudeau’s government always walked on eggshells around the unpredictable Trump administration.
Now it's threatening to go it alone with a tax on tech giants like Google, Amazon and Facebook — a stand it may never have taken had President Donald Trump won reelection.
Canada's readiness to impose a unilateral digital tax on the revenues of large web companies — almost all of which are U.S.-based — could be a test of the new cross-border dynamic following President-elect Joe Biden’s election win.
Biden is expected to oppose unilateral digital taxes just like his predecessor. But his victory is also widely expected to restore a neighborly tone and, perhaps, bring an end to U.S. tariff threats directed north of the frontier.
Just tough talk? A closer read of the situation suggests Canada may never actually have to act alone on a digital tax — and that the announcement may be more about posturing than anything concrete.
The Liberal government said it will impose the unilateral tax in January 2022, but only if international talks aimed at finding a global solution to the issue fail to strike a deal. There’s optimism the negotiations could produce an agreement by mid-2021.
Tip-toeing around Trump: The president provoked a major trade showdown by imposing punishing tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum during the NAFTA talks. In the process, he even lashed out on Twitter at Trudeau himself, calling him “Very dishonest & weak.”
Since the start, Trudeau has been particularly cautious in public appearances and comments involving Trump. Canada’s prime minister even reportedly rehearsed how to shake hands before their first meeting in February 2017 so he would be able to come off strong while not antagonizing the president.
Behind the walk back: Trudeau’s Liberals promised during Canada’s 2019 election campaign to impose a unilateral tax on Big Tech. But after winning reelection, the government moved away from the pledge, right around the time Trump threatened to hit France with levies on its goods over plans from Paris to unilaterally tax digital giants.
Washington has argued the French digital tax would disproportionately hurt U.S. companies.
Almost certainly taking note, the Liberal government abandoned its campaign promise and said it was content to wait for a global digital tax agreement to emerge from ongoing talks involving 135 countries and led by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.
“The idea that Canada would go ahead with an early tax probably would have invited a tariff by Trump,” Jack Mintz, a University of Calgary tax policy expert, said in an interview about the Liberals’ decision to hold off on going solo with a digital tax.
“It may have been [that] the Canadian government didn’t want to poke the hornet’s nest … It made sense, I think, for Canada to probably back off from that point.”
Bolder steps during a Biden transition: Michael Geist, chair of internet and e-commerce law at the University of Ottawa, said after the U.S. response became readily apparent the Trudeau government appeared to backtrack from its digital-tax promise.
"The opposition to the French proposal was unsurprising and I think we can expect the same kind of opposition from the U.S. on the Canadian proposal, if it goes ahead,” Geist said in an interview.
He warned it would be a miscalculation on Canada’s part if it’s moving forward now because it predicts a softer reaction from Biden.
“I see little reason to expect that a Biden administration would act or respond much differently to a unilateral proposal to siphon away tax revenue from the U.S. to another country,” Geist said. “It doesn’t matter whether it’s Canada, France or any other country.”
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Don't blame Trump and don't blame the media, blame them they are responsible for themselves and their behavior. Sure destroy the disinformation network and regulate social media, but they had to get through a lot of truth to the media choice that confirmed their biases. Even people in countries like the old USSR with only state propaganda and everything else suppressed knew the truth if they wanted too and most did.
Put the responsibility where it belongs on the individual, nobody is responsible for their choices but them. When a lunatic with a gun mass murders, you hold him accountable for the act and only bitch about the media sources that helped and directed the hate that was already there. It works the same way for those who voted for Trump, stop making excuses for them and make them accountable. This fascist shit existed in the American south, before the age of mass media, it existed all through out America and was unified by mass media and social media, nationally and even internationally.
Fight it any way you can, including surprising disinformation and even ideas, like death camps for black folks for instance, first amendment my ass. It starts and ends with individuals though, me and you included, use the education system to make better people, there are proven ways to do this. We have suppressed them to the point where they dare not speak it's name, so they got Trump to do it for them and show us their ugly face of hate and fear.
Put the responsibility where it belongs on the individual, nobody is responsible for their choices but them. When a lunatic with a gun mass murders, you hold him accountable for the act and only bitch about the media sources that helped and directed the hate that was already there. It works the same way for those who voted for Trump, stop making excuses for them and make them accountable. This fascist shit existed in the American south, before the age of mass media, it existed all through out America and was unified by mass media and social media, nationally and even internationally.
Fight it any way you can, including surprising disinformation and even ideas, like death camps for black folks for instance, first amendment my ass. It starts and ends with individuals though, me and you included, use the education system to make better people, there are proven ways to do this. We have suppressed them to the point where they dare not speak it's name, so they got Trump to do it for them and show us their ugly face of hate and fear.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Stop blaming the Russians and start blaming your relatives, the Russians don't give a fuck, your relatives might though. Joe will take care of Vlad and if you win the senate they will help. Private for profit disinformation and social division is more of a problem. In the age of mass media and psychological mass manipulation the 1st amendment might be a bigger problem than the second, other free countries do just fine without such nonsense.
I can see why it is necessary in America though, since you were almost half fascist since the beginning, slavery was the original sin. The law was used as a bludgeon against minorities instead of a tool for social harmony, intention is everything. Now the law is used to get your political opponents as opposed to promoting national unity, social harmony and protect society. Laws that I would promote do those things, suppressing social division, promoting national unity, equal human rights and the protection of communities and the nation.
America has only really been a true democratic country since the mid sixties though, since the voters rights act, so you are new at this stuff and are still learning the ropes.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Blaming who for what?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Trump and the fascism you are experiencing right now, individuals are responsible for their actions, not the media they subject themselves to voluntarily. Though for profit promotion of social division and mass murder (covid) needs to be suppressed. There were and still are laws that require mass media to be a public service and it was and is quickly stomped on if it becomes a source of social division. Some people think the Nazi's should have their own TV network and in a way, they have several in America, under the protection of the first amendment. Most of think Jesus hand delivered the constitution though and that subsequent generations are incapable of critical thought. They don't know what the word amendment means, to mend that which was mistaken, omitted or just plain wrong.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
And what about the paid foreign militarized trolls that pretend to be otherwise that are used to attack our citizens sowing divisiveness to divide us up?
What about the foreign nation who is using their military to attack our citizens?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
You know my thoughts on that, but they hold up a mirror and reflect America's and Canada's problems back at us while distorting and amplifying it. Social media and the internet make this possible and the disinformation on the domestic for profit propaganda machine is identical in content and purpose to the Russian efforts. The Russians do it to weaken us and the domestic ones do it for profit, they are taking advantage of the fact that people want this trash. People want pornography too, but you don't see it splashed on morning TV along with the kids cartoons.
Every army needs it's specialists and you are in a fight for freedom, so please do specialize we need the awareness and people to pay attention. Joe apprehends the danger and his people more so, you will no longer be defenseless in this area as the recent cyber attacks have illustrated. Win the senate and you can do more to protect yourself from all enemies foreign and domestic, don't overlook the domestic though. People have to be told if they support this shit in any way they are betraying you, your family and the country. All politics is local as they say hanimmal, but I'll go further and say this kind of thing is not politics, it is personal. I call it cold civil war, but it will be fought by political means, hearts, minds and ballots.
This is part of a larger conversation going on now and not just in America, social and technological conditions have changed the landscape and some people are not adapting to the rapid pace of change in all areas of life.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I am not sure I do know your thoughts on it.
Because I think back to these posts:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/bi-partisan-senate-report-calls-for-sweeping-effort-to-stop-russian-trolls-on-social-media-platforms.997908/post-15862057
https://www.rollitup.org/t/public-health-tips-and-information-on-how-to-prepare-for-the-epidemic-avoid-illness-and-protect-our-communities.1008266/post-15439993
And it makes it difficult for me to read some of the ways you attack people and not think that you are doing it to turn people away from one another.
Like here:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/bi-partisan-senate-report-calls-for-sweeping-effort-to-stop-russian-trolls-on-social-media-platforms.997908/post-16005307
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Hanimmal sometimes I get pissed like most here, but I have been consistent in my views and they have also evolved as new information is acquired and processed. People are responsible for their own actions is the first principal, but not their childhood educations and conditioning, to a point. People have a moral, social and even patriotic duty to rise above their conditioning if they can and those who lack the emotional and intellectual resources fail to do so. People start form different places though and if you are white and from the south you've got a further climb than someone who's head isn't filled with bullshit.
Disinformation reinforces biases and are selected for this purpose, cut it off where you can and enough will migrate to legitimate media (video and audio where most get their info). This does not just mean suppressing hate radio, newsmax, OAN and regulating cable and media companies, it means regulated free basic cable rolled out to rural areas along with high speed internet and part of Joe's infrastructure plan. Since TV went digital and reception is shit, most poor people are getting their news online.
Joe and no democratic politician should call any voter an idiot, that's your job, where the rubber meets the road. Facts don't work, perhaps a skillful conversation can be had after they ask you why you treat them like dirt, then you can answer, using skillful means and kindness. Go for their motives, intentions and morals, if you know they have them, most do, they are not really evil people, few are, but they are dangerous and misguided. Intentions are everything, they motivate actions and votes are actions.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I agree.
People's actions are their own responsibility, like pushing a drug that Dear leader wanted pushed, sometimes it is important that when they are acting out towards others it is a good time to remind them of it so hopefully they realize that it might just be another person on the other end of the conversation (and not just another in the long line of trolls trying to divide us up while pushing propaganda) and that they might shut down if they are not given the chance to not be a troll.
The rudeness is a learned response and we should all try to find different ways around having to point out others bullshit.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Skillful means sometimes means being nasty to gain their attention, but you have to get on the "inside" with them emotionally to change them and appeal to their morals. People filter facts and logic is most often a guise for rationalization. Hearts and minds, hearts first, get in there and then you can use the facts, but in a skillful way while giving them time and space to process things.
Everybody is driven by subconscious forces, mostly conditioning and every sense object and thought has a feeling "tone" associated with it (approach avoidance), it is this emotional root that drives our minds forward into the future. Deep down you work like your dog at a basic level, all mammals do, this thinking ability and a strong episodic memory are recent developments but they have ancient roots.