Biden's Border Crisis

natureboygrower said:

Well that's above my pay grade, Buddy. One cant have an opinion if they don't have a solution? How does Canada do it? You all seem to have very tough border laws, last I heard US citizens weren't allowed in your Country with a dui on their record. Seems kinda harsh, eh?
I dont think a wall will work but more personnel in problem areas, where's there's known crossing, more dogs, more tech on border town crossings can't hurt. I really dont know but throwing our hands up in the air and acting like it's just going to happen no matter what we do isnt going to help.

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But if your able to blame one individual for the problem I would then assume you had a few solutions, just sayin.

sunni said:

thats actually not a crock part its legit you need to.permit to reenter, if it happened within 5 years,

I was convicted of driving while impaired by alcohol or drugs. Can I enter Canada?

ircc.canada.ca

USA and Canada neither acknowledge pardons, etc so you've been convicted of something youre likely to run into trouble,

I went through an entire hassle over my mom, but i thought it was genuinely known that Canada doesnt allow people with DUIS cross the driving boarder because its considered a felony in canada

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Not everyone has their past checked as they go thru the border so I guess if they do have a deeper look they could refuse entry.

I have 3 driving with over 0.08 convictions from many years ago and have been brought in, searched and had my records well checked yet have never been refused entry to the US. A buddy I had with me had a 20yo pot possession conviction and they refused him entry so he walked back to the Canada customs building and waited for me to scoot into Sumas, WA and grab the beer we were going down there to get.

One time I went down with a buddy in his VW. I had a bag of bud on me so got him to pull over so I could stash it and my pipe before we got there. Little did I know he had a bunch of roaches, roach clip and a pipe in the car. We got pulled to the side then strip searched and lectured well. Threatened with deportation so we would never be allowed entry then released but still allowed to go in. he was already outside putting his car back together when I got released. On the counter was a tray with all the contraband on it so I asked the guard what about that shit. He just said take it and GTFO of here. I scooped it up but made him get rid of it before having the same problem going back. We smoked the roaches and had a few pints at the Maple Leaf Tavern in Sumas then bought a couple dozen beer before heading back. Declared the beer and got waved right through. He was pissed about losing the pipe and roach clip but screw him.

That was all back in the 80s before you needed a passport to go south. We went across at least once a week just for cheap dairy and gas and very rarely ever got asked more than if we were all Canadian, how long was our visit and what we had to declare. Duty on dairy was only 1% so never had to pay duty. I don't have a passport and no plans to get one so I guess I'll never be going south again.

Here in Canada impaired driving, DUI is an American thing, is a criminal offence. It becomes a felony if you are sentenced to 2 years or more in jail. For that reason a lot of sentences are 2 years less a day for even some serious offences. Never done time myself.

thumper60 said:

I was turned away from the border last winter on a snowmobile because i have a 12 yr old DUI?I no many others same story even mid range pot charges will keep us out. I looked into it it cost 5000 dollars to get a old oui expunged so i can enter Canada no thanks!

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I haven't had anything to do with crossing borders for well over 20 years and I guess it's got a lot stricter since with a lot of that due to 9/11.

Fogdog said:

Homework assignment. What does the following sentence tell us about right wing authoritarians?

"I only got 2 PMs explaining what was wrong with my posts but I ignored them because I disagreed with the reasons I was given."

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plenty of liberal people on the site do the same though. it isnt political ,

OldMedUser said:

I haven't had anything to do with crossing borders for well over 20 years and I guess it's got a lot stricter since with a lot of that due to 9/11.

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Ummm ya it has lol. Licence and ID run through CPIC every time at our border. I have and use GPS on boat so I don’t cross on water by accident !

Budley Doright said:

Ummm ya it has lol. Licence and ID run through CPIC every time at our border. I have and use GPS on boat so I don’t cross on water by accident !

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Protip: when crossing into Canada a bit dazed by the last 500 miles on a large loud motorcycle —

when the guy at the border asks “are you traveling alone?”

do NOT say “ yeah … just me and the voices.”

Now how might I know that.

Wish I could find the pix file. Nipigon and Wawa totally rocked.

natureboygrower said:

I dont think its Biden's fault and I dont really care about illegal immigrants. But it'd sure be nice to curb the fentanyl coming into the country.
Also, I'd like to know who the coyotes are backed by? The Cartels? If so, at 10-13k per person smuggled into the country, if it is the Cartels doing the majority of the smuggling, they must be bankrolling huge amounts of money off of fentanyl and people.

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@Budley Doright
You must've missed my first post in this thread. I dont blame the president or the immigrants. I don't know if I offered solutions, but I did offer up what I thought might help. Which according to your post you missed as well. How do you feel about your border laws? Would you like to see them loosened a bit?
Maybe the real problem are the Cartels. Not only are they making millions off of fent. , They're exploiting hard working people out of a lifetime of savings with a chance of getting across. Once again, I do not blame the immigrants. But without the Cartels and coyotes, border crossing/drugs would decrease.
The Cartels are gaining strength and support. They seem to run areas like the mob did, some feeling protected by them even though they're being extorted. I worked with 3 guys from Chiapas for over 6 months last year, aged 33, 27 and 22. The younger 2 liked to show me clips of the Cartel on their phones with what seemed like admiration even though i when I asked, they said they were not welcome. The 33 yo was not interested at all in seeing the clips. I did notice the younger guys were way more into nikes and american clothing and spent more money than the oldest. This is probably all anecdotal but maybe it goes back to being a generational thing , idk, just an observation.
Maybe more pressure on the Cartels would help.

natureboygrower said:

@Budley Doright
You must've missed my first post in this thread. I dont blame the president or the immigrants. I don't know if I offered solutions, but I did offer up what I thought might help. Which according to your post you missed as well. How do you feel about your border laws? Would you like to see them loosened a bit?
Maybe the real problem are the Cartels. Not only are they making millions off of fent. , They're exploiting hard working people out of a lifetime of savings with a chance of getting across. Once again, I do not blame the immigrants. But without the Cartels and coyotes, border crossing/drugs would decrease.
The Cartels are gaining strength and support. They seem to run areas like the mob did, some feeling protected by them even though they're being extorted. I worked with 3 guys from Chiapas for over 6 months last year, aged 33, 27 and 22. The younger 2 liked to show me clips of the Cartel on their phones with what seemed like admiration even though i when I asked, they said they were not welcome. The 33 yo was not interested at all in seeing the clips. I did notice the younger guys were way more into nikes and american clothing and spent more money than the oldest. This is probably all anecdotal but maybe it goes back to being a generational thing , idk, just an observation.
Maybe more pressure on the Cartels would help.

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Sure, put more pressure on Cartels but the fentanyl problem is not coming across the border with illegals. Just putting a correction out there. There is no evidence that the surge in Fentanyl is due to migrants, illegal or otherwise. Coyotes or otherwise. Almost all is coming across the border in cars and trucks driven by US citizens at designated points of entry into the US from Mexico..

.

Data shows that most illicit fentanyl is smuggled into the U.S. through the southern border and, specifically, through Ports of Entry (POEs) and by U.S. citizens.

From a pdf listed in the link shown above:

The U.S. Sentencing Commission recently released an annual report on incidents related to fentanyl trafficking. In fiscal year (FY) 2022, 19,851 drug trafficking offenses were reported to the 6 Commission. Of these, 2,362 (about 12 percent) were fentanyl-trafficking cases. This represents a steady increase since FY 2018, when there were only 422 reported offenders - an increase of about 460 percent in four years. The report shows that most fentanyl trafficking offenders in FY 2022 were U.S. citizens (88 percent). The vast majority were men (82 percent), with an average age of 35 years. A large proportion (40 percent) had little or no prior criminal history.

Data from previous years also indicates the significant role U.S. citizens play in fentanyl smuggling. In 2021, 86 percent of fentanyl trafficking convictions were for U.S. citizens. The Cato Institute also notes how just 0.02 percent of people (279 out of 1.8 million migrants) encountered by the Border Patrol for crossing unlawfully possessed fentanyl. While CBP and other border officials must deal with challenges at the border related to processing asylum seekers, the trafficking of fentanyl itself is largely connected to U.S. citizens.

A summary report from the US Sentencing Commission was the original source: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Fentanyl_FY22.pdf

natureboygrower said:

The Fentanyl problem is unlike any other drug crisis the US has seen. It's killed more people than the 80s crack epidemic and is 50 times stronger than heroin. It's flooded all of America and most opiate iv addicts cant find heroin anymore and are forced to start using fent. And it's everywhere. Winter of 2022 Maine DEA made two separate drug seizures in Lewiston. The first was a measly 1 pound,a month later the second bust , SIX pounds of uncut fet. Probably enough to kill the whole state. Fall of 2023 Polk county Florida intercepted Ten pounds of fent via Cali way.
Yall can tidy me up into your Republican box, but it doesn't take away from the fact that raw ingredients are shipped from China to Mexico then cooked up into fent in jungles then smuggled into the US by the Cartels.

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I'm sticking to my earlier point. Another war on drugs seems to be in the offing and I'm not joining it. I live in Oregon, where three years ago we enacted laws that reduced penalties and directed resources to treatment. Three years in, the results haven't been great. Some say worse.

This is the most favorable article I found on the results:


The Economist magazine, a staunch advocate for more progressive drug laws and less incarceration, says Oregon’s experiment with decriminalization has started off poorly because overdose deaths have risen and treatment services are scarce, despite Measure 110′s promises.
“This newspaper has long championed more liberal laws, but before rushing ahead, reform-minded states—in America and beyond—would do well to consider the experience of Oregon, the only American state so far to enact decriminalisation,” The Economist wrote April 13. “It has had a rocky start.”

An opinion piece in the NYT obliterates the program.


How soon is too soon to call a progressive and libertarian policy obsession a public policy fiasco? In the case of Oregon’s Drug Addiction Treatment and Recovery Act, better known as Measure 110, the moment can’t come soon enough.

Three years in, promises made by proponents for the measure have not been realized. But the WOD had 50+ years. It's never worked and yet, here we go again. "Let's add another layer of LEO and laws." So, how about we try something else? Oregon is working to identify the causes for failure of the new measure and find solutions. They aren't the "tough on crime" actions we are used to hearing from law and order types that have never worked but are politically acceptable, it seems. OTOH, drug deaths in the state are up, it really is a shit storm in some areas of Portland today. Our Democratic governor is feeling the heat and isn't the type to either take the heat or find a fall guy. She's looking at re-election next year too. So, maybe this nascent movement is going to get snuffed out by people calling for "tough measures NOW". I can't go there with them. I'll ask my local representatives to support changes to improve the new program but I don't know if that's enough.

sunni said:

plenty of liberal people on the site do the same though. it isnt political ,

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You are right. Unjustified self righteous anger over having a post deleted isn't limited to one political group. I can't help but hear echoes in that post of Trump's unjustified self righteous anger over being accused of crimes we saw him openly commit. But denying guilt and shifting blame is not a partisan act.

natureboygrower said:

@Budley Doright
You must've missed my first post in this thread. I dont blame the president or the immigrants. I don't know if I offered solutions, but I did offer up what I thought might help. Which according to your post you missed as well. How do you feel about your border laws? Would you like to see them loosened a bit?
Maybe the real problem are the Cartels. Not only are they making millions off of fent. , They're exploiting hard working people out of a lifetime of savings with a chance of getting across. Once again, I do not blame the immigrants. But without the Cartels and coyotes, border crossing/drugs would decrease.
The Cartels are gaining strength and support. They seem to run areas like the mob did, some feeling protected by them even though they're being extorted. I worked with 3 guys from Chiapas for over 6 months last year, aged 33, 27 and 22. The younger 2 liked to show me clips of the Cartel on their phones with what seemed like admiration even though i when I asked, they said they were not welcome. The 33 yo was not interested at all in seeing the clips. I did notice the younger guys were way more into nikes and american clothing and spent more money than the oldest. This is probably all anecdotal but maybe it goes back to being a generational thing , idk, just an observation.
Maybe more pressure on the Cartels would help.

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Yes sorry I apologize re the Biden thing! Must have got another confused with you, new gummie batch . I have no solutions to your problems at the Southern border. I’ve been hearing the same narrative my whole life re immigrants and Mexicans from my Southern raised relatives and at 63 that’s a long time lol.

Budley Doright said:

Yes sorry I apologize re the Biden thing! Must have got another confused with you, new gummie batch . I have no solutions to your problems at the Southern border. I’ve been hearing the same narrative my whole life re immigrants and Mexicans from my Southern raised relatives and at 63 that’s a long time lol.

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Corruption in Mexico is so rampant it's difficult to have the enthusiasm to even get started (especially if you want to take on the Cartels),Fog Dog is right,I and I think most of the country have no appetite for another "War on Drugs". And when jackoffs like the man w/the plan 2016-20 talk shit about using our military or ridiculous shit like launching missiles at Mexico fail to take into account that the Cartels have the people in place to conduct terrorism in almost every major US city, and this may be far fetched but the Cartels have the connects,smuggling exp. and the$ for scientists,to possibly make a small nuke and get it here.

OldMedUser said:

I haven't had anything to do with crossing borders for well over 20 years and I guess it's got a lot stricter since with a lot of that due to 9/11.

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Yes it has an that 5 grand is the price that Canada wants me to pay to enter LOL. It really is screwing folk that live on the border that use to shop across the border to save money now they drive 30-40 miles to a grocery store instead of driving across the river.

thumper60 said:

Yes it has an that 5 grand is the price that Canada wants me to pay to enter LOL. It really is screwing folk that live on the border that use to shop across the border to save money now they drive 30-40 miles to a grocery store instead of driving across the river.

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It’s only 3 grand for me to enter the US . Still not interested, although I do miss Cracker Barrel !
If they even exist anymore lol.

Budley Doright said:

It’s only 3 grand for me to enter the US . Still not interested, although I do miss Cracker Barrel !
If they even exist anymore lol.

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Google says they’re still kickin
Though if you’re ever in the Central Valley here, give Perko’s a go. They had a corned beef version of eggs Benedict that was all right.

The US and Mexico have vowed to crack down on migrant smugglers as a growing migration crisis causes chaos on their shared border.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador discussed how to stop the flow of people in talks held in Mexico City.

CCGNZ said:

Corruption in Mexico is so rampant it's difficult to have the enthusiasm to even get started (especially if you want to take on the Cartels),Fog Dog is right,I and I think most of the country have no appetite for another "War on Drugs". And when jackoffs like the man w/the plan 2016-20 talk shit about using our military or ridiculous shit like launching missiles at Mexico fail to take into account that the Cartels have the people in place to conduct terrorism in almost every major US city, and this may be far fetched but the Cartels have the connects,smuggling exp. and the$ for scientists,to possibly make a small nuke and get it here.

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The war on drugs is why those cartels have so much money and power in the first place.

End that damn thing and put resources into healing the sick. So many problems can be solved by that very first act.

Fogdog said:

The war on drugs is why those cartels have so much money and power in the first place.

End that damn thing and put resources into healing the sick. So many problems can be solved by that very first act.

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bing!

cannabineer said:

The obvious answer is to repeal or drastically amend the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, one of Nixon’s first big policy actions.

Criminalizing the possession, use and purchase of compounds in the same drug family (opioids) as the gold standard (heroin) leads to things like the current fentanyl problem and to the earlier MPTP disaster. Criminalizing the psychedelics has no medical
basis; it’s just that those who use those drugs tend to reject indoctrination.

The two hurdles are a puritanical and controlling attitude toward drug (excepting alcohol, nicotine and caffeine) use, and
the massive industry that has evolved around the law enforcement and penal systems geared toward profiting off the drug war, with the brunt of the cruelty landing on the poor andor nonwhite people.

But as you’ve said before, cruelty is the point.

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cannabineer said:

bing!

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For Pete’s sake, if you’re going to say it, say it right!

Fogdog said:

The war on drugs is why those cartels have so much money and power in the first place.

End that damn thing and put resources into healing the sick. So many problems can be solved by that very first act.

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I agree. Getting folks off the street requires mental and drug counseling/detox first. Healing the sick may involve a lot more than a 30 day rehab though, especially when a lot of drug addiction is caused by a mental illness going back to a shitty childhood caused by shitty parents. Years and years of trauma and undiagnosed illnesses takes time and resources. Some addicts require up to a year in house then a sober living facility once out. Getting people sober and staying sober will be about as easy as keeping drugs out of the country, but it doesn't mean it's not doable or worth trying to fix.

I dont think a war against the Cartel is a good idea for obvious reason. But I do feel some pressure needs to put on them in some sort of way.They'll only gain more power and support otherwise.