Blue lights? Red lights? please give advice about correct HPS lighting

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bharce

Member
Hi there, at the moment i am using 2x 600w HPS lights, that contain what i think is the red spectrum, i have used this set up right from the start from veg right up to the end.

I am coming to the end now but for the next one i really want to step it up and give them the correct light for maximum yield.

I have heard plants prefer light of the blue spectrum whilst in veg to build up their roots, and then when in flower they like lots and lots and lots of light in the red spectrum.

So using this information i am thinking next time i will use 2x 600w (blue spectrum bulbs) HPS lights whilst in veg, and then i will change the lights to 2x 1000w (red spectrum bulbs) HPS lights whilst in flower.

Does this sound sensible?

If not, what lighting set up do YOU use to get the best growth?

Also, can lights of both spectrum be used in flower, for example if i used 1x 1000w Red bulb, and 1x 1000w blue bulb for flowering would this be advisable?

Your feedback is most appreciated.
 
F

frmrboi

Well-Known Member
bharce said:
1 - Does this sound sensible?
2 - can lights of both spectrum be used in flower, for example if i used 1x 1000w Red bulb, and 1x 1000w blue bulb for flowering would this be advisable?
Click to expand...
1- yes
2 - yes
Blue (6500 K AKA Daylight) gives the best growth, and a shorter bushier plant. The red (2700 K AKA warm white) enhances the blooming. A combination of the two gives you the best of both when flowering.

https://www.rollitup.org/attachments/cfl-growing/240662d1226605588-5000k-vs-6500k-hortgraph2.gif
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
Blue light rays is what plants need most during the vegetative stage of growth, and it is not mainly for root development, it is mainly for vegetative growth. During the flowering stage plants need more light in the red spectrum. That means metal halide bulbs are best for vegetative growth and high pressure sodium bulbs are best for flowering. Some people will combine both metal halide and high pressure sodium later in flower tin increase the amount of UVB rays to plants which stimulates/increases resin production. Others will use a UVB bulb or bulbs in addition to a high pressure sodium bulb, again to increase UVB rays to stimulate/increase resin production.

When picking a metal halide bulb you want one with more blue, something in or close to the 6500K range. Many metal halide bulbs are more full spectrum and produce a good amount of light in the red/orange spectrum so they will be less effective for optimal vegetative growth.

Another option is to switch to a metal sodium bulb, a dual arc bulb that puts off both metal halide spectrum light rays and high pressure sodium light rays from one single bulb. They are not available in every wattage but if one can be found in the wattage you use it is not a bad option for later in flowering. The one thing to keep in mind with a metal sodium dual arc bulb is while it may be a 1000 watt bulb or a 600 watt bulb it really isn't either when it comes to actual light penetration. A 1000 watt metal sodium dual arc bulb will have a 600 watt high pressure sodium filament that will give you the penetration of a 600 watt bulb and also a 400 watt metal halide that will give you the penetration of a 400-watt metal halide bulb. In the case of a 600 watt metal sodium dual arc bulb the different filaments, metal halide and high pressure sodium, will give you 300 watts each of penetration.

Combined the bulbs uses 1000 watts and 600 watts but neither will have the same amount of penetration as a regular 1000 watt or 600 watt bulb, so that is something to keep in mind if someone is going to use a metal sodium dual arc bulb.
 
West Coast Medicine

West Coast Medicine

Well-Known Member
You can use HPS in veg, you actually get more lumens that way, (plants process the HPS spectrum just as efficiently as MH spectrum) but your plants will be more stretched between nodes if you use only HPS for veg. You cannot use only MH in flower, although MH light during the last 2 weeks of flower will increase potency due the the UVB light emitted only from MH bulbs. edit/you might not want to use an MH for the first few weeks of flowering as I'm pretty sure I've heard somewhere that red spectrum makes the plants flower, and if there is still blue spectrum I'm not sure if they will reach full potential right away.... Just a thought...
 
G

GimpDoctor420

Active Member
West Coast Medicine said:
You can use HPS in veg, you actually get more lumens that way, (plants process the HPS spectrum just as efficiently as MH spectrum) but your plants will be more stretched between nodes if you use only HPS for veg. You cannot use only MH in flower, although MH light during the last 2 weeks of flower will increase potency due the the UVB light emitted only from MH bulbs.
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good to note here for you bharce that the closer you can keep a light to the plant the closer the nodes will be because the plant wont want to stretch to reach the light as much. thats why hps might not be ideal for vegging
 
Medi 1

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
to me a mh is a waste of time. hps all the way with a dual spectrum bulb. has both red and blue. blue is more for branching. if effects a certain growth hormone to produce more and red is the other growth regulator. blue is a better colour but also dies off way faster than red dose. a hps has almost double the lumens so is an all around more intense light.

reds n blues effect the cytokins and auxins. thats is what regulates its growth in side or verticle growths both under and above the soil line. auxins are lateral groth and cytokins do verticle
 
Ronjohn7779

Ronjohn7779

Well-Known Member
FYI you can use HPS lighting for both vegging and fruiting. However MH just give you a more bushier shorter plant. HPS are better for fruiting. Some people use both HPS and MH during Fruiting. Other people buy hybrid bulbs (these run as either MH or HPS but not both at the same time) and other people buy what they call a blue HPS. These blue HPS bulbs are really a short HPS filament with a MH component running at the same time. This makes the light bluer and they cost a good deal more than a normal bulb.

If you want to only run one setup I'd just buy a normal HPS in fruiting and T5s in Vegging. I don't know the kind of setup you're doing (i.e SOG or Normal plants), but realistically you only need 40% of the light you use for fruiting for vegging. During vegging plants are smaller and can be kept closer together. Depending on your ceiling you normally only veg to 1 to 2 feet (most plants grow 1.5-3 times their size in fruiting).
 
Medi 1

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
i think you asre confusing the conversion bulbs with both than a dual spectrum. they dont have both fillamnts in them. just addeed blue. usualy from 17 to 30% the conversions suk. way weeker in lumens
and the cieling realy dont determin when to flower, the light size is way more important to utilize it right
 
mr.smileyface

mr.smileyface

Well-Known Member
I have better results growing under a 1000 hps from start to finish. Rule of thumb is 1000 to 4000. So for 6 i rock two over 150.
The 4 lights i show on here was started under a 600watt hps for 6 weeks and then put into bud under 4 air cool 1000w hps digitals in a near perfect room with a 2.2 pound recipe. Im only expecting 1.5 because i didnt have the full line and start co2/sealed room at week 3
here they are at day 41
 

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DVSxGenetix

Member
Medi 1 said:
to me a mh is a waste of time. hps all the way with a dual spectrum bulb. has both red and blue. blue is more for branching. if effects a certain growth hormone to produce more and red is the other growth regulator. blue is a better colour but also dies off way faster than red dose. a hps has almost double the lumens so is an all around more intense light.

reds n blues effect the cytokins and auxins. thats is what regulates its growth in side or verticle growths both under and above the soil line. auxins are lateral groth and cytokins do verticle
Click to expand...
I to have to point this out but you can't claim that "[Metal Halide] is a waste of time only to go on to admit that your using a dual spectrum bulb. It's basically the same thing, ann emission of blue spectrum lighting
 
D

DVSxGenetix

Member
Brick Top said:
Blue light rays is what plants need most during the vegetative stage of growth, and it is not mainly for root development, it is mainly for vegetative growth. During the flowering stage plants need more light in the red spectrum. That means metal halide bulbs are best for vegetative growth and high pressure sodium bulbs are best for flowering. Some people will combine both metal halide and high pressure sodium later in flower tin increase the amount of UVB rays to plants which stimulates/increases resin production. Others will use a UVB bulb or bulbs in addition to a high pressure sodium bulb, again to increase UVB rays to stimulate/increase resin production.

When picking a metal halide bulb you want one with more blue, something in or close to the 6500K range. Many metal halide bulbs are more full spectrum and produce a good amount of light in the red/orange spectrum so they will be less effective for optimal vegetative growth.

Another option is to switch to a metal sodium bulb, a dual arc bulb that puts off both metal halide spectrum light rays and high pressure sodium light rays from one single bulb. They are not available in every wattage but if one can be found in the wattage you use it is not a bad option for later in flowering. The one thing to keep in mind with a metal sodium dual arc bulb is while it may be a 1000 watt bulb or a 600 watt bulb it really isn't either when it comes to actual light penetration. A 1000 watt metal sodium dual arc bulb will have a 600 watt high pressure sodium filament that will give you the penetration of a 600 watt bulb and also a 400 watt metal halide that will give you the penetration of a 400-watt metal halide bulb. In the case of a 600 watt metal sodium dual arc bulb the different filaments, metal halide and high pressure sodium, will give you 300 watts each of penetration.

Combined the bulbs uses 1000 watts and 600 watts but neither will have the same amount of penetration as a regular 1000 watt or 600 watt bulb, so that is something to keep in mind if someone is going to use a metal sodium dual arc bulb.
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I concur :clap:
 
Medi 1

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
um why buy 2 when 1 will do it...thats how i mean is a waste oif money. buy 2 bulbs or buy 1 and get better ewith the 1 hps. not hard to see it.
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
West Coast Medicine said:
You cannot use only MH in flower,.
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You can use only a metal halide bulb for flowering if it is a 'warm' metal halide bulb. They are 3200K and that is not all that different from high pressure sodium kelvin ratings which are usually around 2100K. A 'warm' metal halide bulb is a full spectrum bulb and is very different from the 'daylight' very blue 6500K metal halide bulbs that someone would not want to use alone for flowering.

I would not suggest using only a 'warm' metal halide for flowering, but it can be done and it will work fairly well, not great, but still fairly well.
 
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DVSxGenetix

Member
Medi 1 said:
um why buy 2 when 1 will do it...thats how i mean is a waste oif money. buy 2 bulbs or buy 1 and get better ewith the 1 hps. not hard to see it.
Click to expand...
Brick Top was absolutely correct in his description of lighting in his previous posting.

For example i have here a link to some joe smith hydro store and look at the description to their 1000w dual arc bulb...

(http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/lights4.shtml)

They basically describe a 1000w dual arc bulb as a combination of a 600w HPS with a 400w MH therefore totaling up to 1000w.

So considering yes you get full spectrum lighting it is easy to see how a 1000w HPS (used for flowering) will out perform a 600w HPS straight up head to head. Even if coupled with a 400w MH considering blue light helps mainly vegetative growth not flowering size. You would be almost better off with a 1000w digital ballast that strikes(can use) both HPS and MH and spring the extra money for the second 1000w metal halide bulb since the difference is only around $40 or so. Then of course the ballast if you dont already have one but...

Now you have 1000w MH for veg stage & 1000w HPS for flowering instead of using a 1000w (total power) 600/400 dual arc bulb. The ~33% more red lighting will pay for the upgrade the first time around in yield results. Not to mention you will be cutting down veg time with a ~200% increase in blue light... Quicker veg, Quicker bloom :)
 
Medi 1

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
looks like a sorta conversion bulb and is also less in lumens as they are. those showed a 110k lumens. a real 1k is 155k. my 600 runs almost 100k in lumens. so again ill continue with what i have. and the mh ellemt in thsoe dont last as long as the hps does so then its colour is all over the place,.and for 45 bucks you get what you pay for, im no knockin anyone usingt hem just they are old news in lighting tech.
 
Medi 1

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
the dual ones are old news, and so is mh and hps for that matter,.never said anything about not using them. and i did upgrade from 1k to 600 and do way better now.

so what math is rthis...the less lemsn means more bud math??? cause that what you get running a 1k. or i takes more fans and venting to run cool enough to use the light right and get it close to the plant. not the average 18 inches from tops im seeing on this site. at 24 that is all the max lumens they have each inch firther drops by 50%
and nobody said anything about a biulb quiting...i said dont last can be many ways. like max lumens or colour spectrum. there is more to a bulbs quality. than if its on or not.

and them conversion ones having only 110k lumens at costing 1k worth of power and putting off 1k worth of heat is not better than a 600 running 90k lumens and less cost and less heat....how.
hps longer lasting , only a 10k lumens diff but with less heat can utilize the lumens better than the 1k thus giving bigger and better yields.
 
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DVSxGenetix

Member
Ok, I C

i was comparing a true 1000w HPS to a 1000w dual arc, and you are right, they are all old news :)

View attachment 1255796

New technology would be LEDs like this 90w Quad band UFO which i plan to use over my ez-cloner. Twice the wattage of a 48w 2foot T5, twice the area coverage, 1/4 the cost (not that it matters much for T5s) but more importantly 80-90% of the light from this UFO will be used for chlorophyll production compared to only 20-30% from the T5 or other HID bulbs... its still just a theory but this should cut down my root time significantly...

Like you said there is more to it than just watts & lumens
 
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