Bridgelux Gen2 BXEB-L0560Z-30E2000-C-B3 First Look

Humple

Well-Known Member
Can you say Ad Hominum?

And still misquoting me.



Nice graph. I do not remember the numbers at 36" & 40" Like 97 and 120? That would be exactly what an ISL calculator would compute. But 40" is less than 2x the fixture's max 30" dimension. A little short of the 5x rule.

Just plug the 36" and 40" PPFD numbers into an inverse square calculator.


Take a look at the AMS TCS3400 Color Light-to-Digital Converter. Very inexpensive 4 photodiode sensor RGB+clear. A PAR meter cannot use an ambient light sensor. A PAR meter must have some spectral data. RGB minimum.

I have a couple of their AS7262 sensors, one a USB port the other on a serial port. The AS7262 will blow away most PAR meters. It is nearly spectrometer quality for $5.00. I will be writing an app for it very soon.
6 visible channels: 450nm, 500nm, 550nm, 570nm, 600nm and 650nm, each with 40nm FWHM. Perfect for horticulture spectrometry.

I've covered all your deceptive comments previously, so I hope we are done.
@wietefras has exposed your backtracking and revisionism over and over again. The rest of the forum has been witness to your weak attempts at side-stepping and diversion. You post mile-long rants full of jargon that you seem to think lend credence to your points, but I would be very surprised if there were even a handful of people here who believe that you know what you're talking about. Let it go, man. This is not where you will find your validation. Find peace doing something that you actually understand. Something you can take pride in. Something other than "grow light research".
 

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
would be very surprised if there were even a handful of people here who believe that you know what you're talking about. Let it go, man. This is not where you will find your validation.
That is very likely true. I have only run into a couple of others that caught on to his bullshit. They just disappear. Me I'm too old and stubborn. I think it is wrong to state things as fact when giving advice. He has given a lot of bad advice and I have not been on here too long. I'm retired and usually only pop in here when I'm home alone getting drunk. The past couple of days I have been sober. But spent too much time here. Retired life.

doing something that you actually understand.
That is just so wrong. You do not know me at all. And obviously you are one of them that does not understand. It is very complex subject matter. To me, it is simple stuff. If you knew me or knew someone that knows me, you would not have said what you said.

has exposed your backtracking
He has misquoted, insinuated, and misunderstood me time after time.

But hey I understand where you are coming from. I have seen the stuff he says and he is convincing to those that do not know he is lying. He can say fallacious things with such conviction. That's not okay by me but I am happy and no one on the Internet has the ability to hurt me with their words. I am always smiling when I type out my messages.
 

SteelyX

Active Member
Are you guys familiar with Dialux 4 or Dialux Evo ?
I've did some simulations too using this software to compare a CXB and F-Series setup at 4'x4'.

View attachment 4083064

Thanks for the heads up on Dialux. I can't believe this program is free.

I've played around a bit with it, but you could take 20 years to learn it all. How did you learn to model light distribution? The tutorials I've seen don't have a quick lesson on modeling light distributions.

Could you send me the script for that rendering? Or if you have any other shortcuts to learning the basics I'm interested.
 

wietefras

Well-Known Member
still misquoting me. I do not remember the numbers at 36" & 40" Like 97 and 120?
Not misquoting, you demonstrate again that you have a sieve for a memory
The measured values matched calculated ISL.

No Sides 40" 97 µMoles
No Sides 36" 117 µMoles
I left out the reflection bit, because that's too difficult for you. So only overlap and it's pretty much a straight line.

Just plug the 36" and 40" PPFD numbers into an inverse square calculator.
Yes that's your confirmation bias. You only look at the viewpoints which support your claims and ignore the heaps of evidence that you are wrong. Which on it's own already completely disqualifies you from being a researcher.

Added to that, your grasp of math is as poor as your understanding of light. You need three points to determine the nature of a relation.

But then, even with the two pairs of measurements you compared it's abundantly clear it's linear. You see 13% loss in the first 4 inches and 17% loss in the last 4 inches. So you were completely staggered about the readings of the first 4 inch not matching ISL, but you found that the last 4 inches "sort of" came close to "ISL", so the universe is safe and you were right all along! Really only you can see such conflicting observations and still claim you are right.

If you just imagine a world where you are wrong and allow yourself to look at all the data properly, then you would see the linear line. Lesson learned and move on.

Take a look at the AMS TCS3400 Color Light-to-Digital Converter. Very inexpensive 4 photodiode sensor RGB+clear.
That is not a CMOS nor a CCD like you claimed. Also, small detail perhaps, but that's not a PAR meter at all.

That's another problem with your attitude, you have no clue about anything and yet you think whatever you Google proves that you are right. Yet what you find is either completely unrelated or you simply also misunderstand what ever you Googled. Or both.

Like when you thought that a "sun direction sensor" with a CCD inside was a PAR meter.

Or now when you think a sensor for adjusting the backlight on a smartphone is a PAR meter.

A PAR meter cannot use an ambient light sensor. A PAR meter must have some spectral data. RGB minimum.
No, a PAR meter does not need to "have spectral data" and yes they do generally measure ambient light. That's why the cosine corrector is added.

You have got to be kidding me that you understand that little of how they work. You keep insisting people waste money on a PAR meter and you don't even know how they work or what they do.

Here is how LICOR explains how it works:
The LI‑190R uses a high-quality silicon photodiode and glass optical filter to create uniform sensitivity to light between 400 nm to 700 nm
no CCD, no special software calculation angles and arctanning, no array of photodiodes correcting for the "spectral data". A single photodiode and a filter. Exactly like a lux meter uses. Albeit filtered for a different response curve.

The sensor features excellent cosine response, which ensures accurate measurements under diffuse light and when sunlight originates from a low solar angle.
and a cosine corrector to make sure it measures light over a wide angle.

I've covered all your deceptive comments previously, so I hope we are done.
As long as you keep posting this utter bullshit there will be people calling you out.

How about you stop pretending that you know anything about light and just read and learn for a few months on this forum? There is a heap of knowledge and knowledgeable people here who you could learn a lot from. Just screaming nonsense at everybody constantly is not going to get you over your lack of understanding of the subject.

If you ever manage to get over yourself and actually learn how things work then you will look back at these posts and you will feel the shame of posting so much stupidity. I kid you not. Although odds are you will never learn.
 

tomate

Well-Known Member
How did you learn to model light distribution? The tutorials I've seen don't have a quick lesson on modeling light distributions.
You don't have to do that. Most of the manufacturers provide an IES optical source model. All you have to do is to open it with the DIAL LDTeditor and complete the missing information like size/shape, wattage and luminous output. In case of the lumen output you can simply provide the absolute ppf values (µmol/s) instead of lumens so your results will show PPFD instead of lux which by the way Cree probably did the same for their horticulture reference paper using the same software to demonstrate some PAR maps.
If you need more decimal spaces for more accurate results, simply open the ies file with a text editor and change the numbers manually. Dialux will show you only rounded numbers, but it will use the point numbers for its calculations.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I found a simple constrution manual for a Smartphone Spectrometer.
It comes from a german student and it uses the smartphone camera and a light tunnel with diffraction grating. It's cheap and easy to build, but all in german language. Here is the link, I also attach pdf's but can also be downloaded on the website. But again, it's all in german(copy and paste it into a translator, googles translation is good enough).

http://www.ipp.mpg.de/handyspektrometer

This is needed:
-------------------------
printed instructions
Craft sheet, printed on dark cardboard 130-160 g / m², DIN A4 (important: print in original size without scaling!)
Scissors and cutter knives
All-purpose adhesive and easily removable dark insulating tape
Transmitted light diffraction grating (1000 lines / mm) from the Internet trade
Smartphone
original-1517424873.jpg


Please note, you will need an image editor to qualitatively evaluate the spectral images.
I will try to recreate such a cardboard spectrometer.
If I find a good Image editing app to evaluate, I'll let you know. Maybe someone can recommend a good tool for the evaluation? GLR? Wietefras? Anyone else?
 

Attachments

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
Here is how LICOR explains how it works:
I do not care about Licor. I no longer care to converse with your dumb ass. You are a liar and a fraud. Go away.

I've wasted too much time with your bullshit. I can spend my time productively without you involved. My mistake was trying to explain thing in scientific terms. No one understands me and they believe you because you have been around much longer. I would suggest you get professional help with your personality disorder.
 
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Randomblame

Well-Known Member
That's nice. Thank you.



Corrections? Ouch.

I know he has been on here longer than me and gained some respect for his wizardry.
I'm afraid that respect will be lessened as long as I hang in here. He has been very good manipulating others with is ad hominem replies and misquoting me. He is very good at deception. Wizards sometimes do that. Stand by as I pull back the curtain and revel the Wizard of Oz imitator.

I make mistakes. I'm old and I drink. And the ability to edit is a shorter amount of time than it takes me to get sober. There is not enough liquor in Costa Ric'er to get me to think reflections cancel ISL.

Champagne don't drive me crazy
Cocaine don't make me lazy
Ain't nobody's business but my own
Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker
I can drink all the liquor down in Costa Ric'er
Ain't nobody's business but my own

You can ride a great big pink Cadillac to church on Sunday
You can hang around the house with your old lady on Monday
Ain't nobody's business but your own
Man, I don't care what in the world that you do
As long as you do what you say you going to
Ain't nobody's business but your own


Haha, I do not give much credit just because someone is here for a long time or not. I basically draw my own conclusions. I also do not care who prefers which drug. Personally, I do not like liquor because I had to watch how he executed my father, but I like anything else, beside of crystal speed. My father died because of multiple organ failure at 52, but I've undoubtedly inherited its addiction genes.
Two years later, I was thirteen in 1978 I shaved my head and tattooed "Sex Pistols" on my ass cheek and after that everything was over anyway..
I did what I wanted and still today I believe in this freedom.

Believe me, you do not want to know the odyssey I've been taking since then. That I still being alive, some consider as a miracle ...
Today I am calmer, my wife died early, the most of my budies are already dead and gone, my bones hurt and I get the receipt for my life change.
I am the last one who has prejudices, because I have met them the whole time of my life.
Everyone should be happy after his own temper, that has always been my motto. I still believe in anarchy!

So, let's keep it further like Ian Dury, mate and keep up the good work.

 

wietefras

Well-Known Member
Please note, you will need an image editor to qualitatively evaluate the spectral images.
I will try to recreate such a cardboard spectrometer.
If I find a good Image editing app to evaluate, I'll let you know. Maybe someone can recommend a good tool for the evaluation? GLR? Wietefras? Anyone else?
I got the one from Public lab with the webcam years ago.
https://publiclab.org/wiki/desktop-spectrometry-kit-3-0

Again something you don't use a lot, but I wanted to check if my far red diodes and I was thinking perhaps to use it with the add-ons to detect what's in the water

You don't need an imaging editor. You can use their website to process the images:
https://spectralworkbench.org/

BTW the one I got, they still had you peel the grating off a DVD. So that was still DIY.
 
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wietefras

Well-Known Member
I do not care about Licor.
Yep, cognitive dissonance again. You don;t want to acknowledge that you are wrong

No one understands me and they believe you because you have been around much longer.
We understand you perfectly fine. The problem is that your ideas are bullshit.

I'm not right because I have been here longer. People know I'm right because they know how a PAR meter works. Or at the very least they can read how LICOR describes it. They know there is no CCD element used for calculating and correcting for angles.

They can see that when they move their lux sensor a meter away from their light they are not left with only 1% of the light they had at 4" (which would be the case if inverse square actually applied). Or they can just look at their floor and see that it's not dark of course.

Your claims are all verifiable untrue. Although they way you pretend to be a researcher and write it down like you are some sort of authority does run the risk that people lose sight of reality. So I will explain the actual science involved to expose your nonsense.

Just learn the basics first and stop posting your bullshit opinions as fact and no one will bother you.


I'll admit that I am a bit more tenacious in fighting bullshit on this forum than most yes. Years ago someone came up with some poorly performed and poorly understood tests that showed that a reflector on a COB gave 20% to 30% more light. Clearly that is bullshit since all they really do is absorb 8% of the light and confine it to a smaller area. Even when perfectly clean.

I went against this and people went nuts. So I gave it up and though that if people want to waste their time and money it's not my problem. At least I tried to help them. I'd hoped they'd figure it out in a few weeks. Or months at best. It took years!

I think a year later Greengenes pitched in after he did some measurements on how badly reflectors work after being used for a few grows. Then Malocan clearly showed that you lose 15% of the light by adding reflectors. This is because you need to hang them higher than bare COBs to get correct uniformity. So they absorb 8% (when clean) and then due to hanging higher the "ISL" takes away your light. Oh wait, no the wall losses eat away your light.

By now hardly anyone still uses reflectors on their COBs but still I feel sad that one person with a dumb idea and poor understanding of science can do so much damage on a forum (and even outside).

Then the quantum board came along which is about the second worst idea I have seen on this forum. The light distribution of these things is appalling and they cost twice as much as any other (and better) solution. CobKits showed that four Citizen 1212 COBs replace a quantum board (same light production and efficiency) and you can evenly spread those 4 COBs over your grow instead of clumping all the light in the middle of a 2x2 space.

Luckily led strips seem to bring an end to the quantum board craze.

So I have witnessed over the years that dumb ideas cost people money and they stifle development in a direction that actually would be beneficial to the forum and thus myself.

In that light, you telling people they must have a PAR meter is practically a crime. So yes I will spend time to combat your ridiculous fake science and try to save people money and try to keep the correct ideas being developed instead of people flocking to a bad idea.

Fixture height is used to get correct uniformity. Nothing else. You do not need a PAR meter for that. Not even a lux meter. Simply keep the height below "the distance between the led strips".

Don't hang the fixture higher than that to get less light on the plants. Just dim the lights instead. You can lower the lights to about half the strip distance and individual tops can be closer still. I've had my plants grow straight through the fixture and they were fine.
 

GrowLightResearch

Well-Known Member
! Looks almost similar but one can get all parts from one source
Just noticed they are sold out. Sometimes I see them on eBay and Amazon. Many times marked up.


Haha, I do not give much credit just because someone is here for a long time or not.
That sex pistols image in my head was not good.

I went through some very rough years recently. I am finally back to near normal. Although I was never normal. I could not imagine how awful it would be to be normal. I used to say I have lived a blessed life. the worst that happened to me was my dog died. Then 2010 came along. An unbelievable number of things beyond my control went to shit. Sometime between 2010 and 2014 my dog died. I do not know what year that was.

I understand Quantum electrodynamics fairly well. Much more than what's his name. I did not like seeing him give others bad advice.
I like a challenge, I tried to get him to understand. He knows stuff, like book smart. He likely took physics and was able to take and pass the exams. But there is a difference between being able to answer a question and know why that formula comes up with the answer. I am not satisfied with knowing the answers. I need to understand why and how it works. I need to visualize it in my head.. For example I could ace an exam on gravity. I cannot wrap my head around how gravity actually works. Haven't had the need to either. In this thread I gave it my all to put him in his place. I have seriously come to the conclusion he has some sort of personality disorder. In retrospect I wasted too much time. I could have been helping others that needed it. And those I can help, rather than this lost cause. I was too technical. It's science to me. I know the difference between intensity, density, radiance, and radiance. I am very careful to use the correct terminology. I have a PhD son in law. If I use an incorrect term he corrects me. You can not image how many times I have heard the difference between taste and flavor explained to me. He drinks too. One of the problems is I do not come across well in written words. You can not see my smile. I always smile now. My next challenge is to learn diplomacy. I can't even read his posts anymore.
 

wietefras

Well-Known Member
I know the difference between intensity, density, radiance, and radiance. I am very careful to use the correct terminology.
That is just comedy gold right there. From the guy who started out here by averaging a mix of lumen datasheet figures and PPFD measurements. But at least he knows the difference between "radiance, and radiance".

We are DONE!
Great. We don't need your bullshit replies. I'm posting for the people who do want to understand properly. So at least now I can expose your lies and fake science in peace and quiet. Thanks!
 
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PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Yep, cognitive dissonance again. You don;t want to acknowledge that you are wrong

We understand you perfectly fine. The problem is that your ideas are bullshit.

I'm not right because I have been here longer. People know I'm right because they know how a PAR meter works. Or at the very least they can read how LICOR describes it. They know there is no CCD element used for calculating and correcting for angles.

They can see that when they move their lux sensor a meter away from their light they are not left with only 1% of the light they had at 4" (which would be the case if inverse square actually applied). Or they can just look at their floor and see that it's not dark of course.

Your claims are all verifiable untrue. Although they way you pretend to be a researcher and write it down like you are some sort of authority does run the risk that people lose sight of reality. So I will explain the actual science involved to expose your nonsense.

Just learn the basics first and stop posting your bullshit opinions as fact and no one will bother you.


I'll admit that I am a bit more tenacious in fighting bullshit on this forum than most yes. Years ago someone came up with some poorly performed and poorly understood tests that showed that a reflector on a COB gave 20% to 30% more light. Clearly that is bullshit since all they really do is absorb 8% of the light and confine it to a smaller area. Even when perfectly clean.

I went against this and people went nuts. So I gave it up and though that if people want to waste their time and money it's not my problem. At least I tried to help them. I'd hoped they'd figure it out in a few weeks. Or months at best. It took years!

I think a year later Greengenes pitched in after he did some measurements on how badly reflectors work after being used for a few grows. Then Malocan clearly showed that you lose 15% of the light by adding reflectors. This is because you need to hang them higher than bare COBs to get correct uniformity. So they absorb 8% (when clean) and then due to hanging higher the "ISL" takes away your light. Oh wait, no the wall losses eat away your light.

By now hardly anyone still uses reflectors on their COBs but still I feel sad that one person with a dumb idea and poor understanding of science can do so much damage on a forum (and even outside).

Then the quantum board came along which is about the second worst idea I have seen on this forum. The light distribution of these things is appalling and they cost twice as much as any other (and better) solution. CobKits showed that four Citizen 1212 COBs replace a quantum board (same light production and efficiency) and you can evenly spread those 4 COBs over your grow instead of clumping all the light in the middle of a 2x2 space.

Luckily led strips seem to bring an end to the quantum board craze.

So I have witnessed over the years that dumb ideas cost people money and they stifle development in a direction that actually would be beneficial to the forum and thus myself.

In that light, you telling people they must have a PAR meter is practically a crime. So yes I will spend time to combat your ridiculous fake science and try to save people money and try to keep the correct ideas being developed instead of people flocking to a bad idea.

Fixture height is used to get correct uniformity. Nothing else. You do not need a PAR meter for that. Not even a lux meter. Simply keep the height below "the distance between the led strips".

Don't hang the fixture higher than that to get less light on the plants. Just dim the lights instead. You can lower the lights to about half the strip distance and individual tops can be closer still. I've had my plants grow straight through the fixture and they were fine.

Careful brother, starting to sound like GrowDickResearch with the ego...

Most HID growers know about common losses ( reflectors, glass , direct bulb cooling) and bare bulb/ vert was the most efficient...... with its own set of cons of course. Idk who you fought with that disputed it ? For over a year, lol. Reflectors/ secondary lenses where always considered to have an impact on output in here......

QB's are a terrible idea? That's new to me, did robin piss in your cereal? 2+ppf/w confirmed in a sphere is excellent by today's standards. The countless threads and growers who love them with results to back it up must be all lying then;)
 

wietefras

Well-Known Member
@WeedSexWeightsShakes Like I said, very poor light distribution and it's almost double the cost of COBs and led strips.

Most HID growers know about common losses ( reflectors, glass , direct bulb cooling) and bare bulb/ vert was the most efficient
True, but I'm talking about reflectors on COBs. Reflectors make even less sense on COBs, but in 2015/2016 they were plenty of people who were convinced reflectors were a must have.

QB's are a terrible idea? That's new to me, did robin piss in your cereal? 2+ppf/w confirmed in a sphere is excellent by today's standards. The countless threads and growers who love them with results to back it up must be all lying then;)
Sure they will work just fine, but people grow dank weed under CFL's just fine too. Just like reflectors on COBs worked perfectly fine too.

The point is people could have done better with bare COBs or led strips instead of QBs.

2+ppf/W in a sphere is meaningless because Quantum boards need to be at 18" or higher for correct uniformity and at that height you have lost any of that extra high efficiency light you paid for, on the walls. Check out LedGardner's PPFD matrix to see how much light is lost at that height. It was even worse than I anticipated.

Or imagine hanging 4 COBs lumped together in the center of a 2x2 tent instead of spreading them around. No one would do that. Why would it suddenly make sense to put all the light in the center of a 2x2 when using a board? Get 4 COBs or strips instead, spread the light properly and you can drop it to 4" to 6". That's a massive reduction in wall losses compared to hanging it at 18".

And then there is the cost. At spending close to half the money you can have a fixture with COBs or strips with the same efficiency and output. Or spend just as much for almost double the number of COBs/strips and run at higher efficiency still. Both with less wall losses to boot.

But you are right, I'm not going to argue (much) against the quantum board craze train. People are too vested in the idea that those things are a good idea. If people are willing to pay almost double for those boards instead of buying strips, I don't think they see logic and reason anymore. So I won't be able to reach them anyway.
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
@WeedSexWeightsShakes Like I said, very poor light distribution and it's almost double the cost of COBs and led strips.

True, but I'm talking about reflectors on COBs. Reflectors make even less sense on COBs, but in 2015/2016 they were plenty of people who were convinced reflectors were a must have.

Sure they will work just fine, but people grow dank weed under CFL's just fine too. Just like reflectors on COBs worked perfectly fine too.

The point is people could have done better with bare COBs or led strips instead of QBs.

2+ppf/W in a sphere is meaningless because Quantum boards need to be at 18" or higher for correct uniformity and at that height you have lost any of that extra high efficiency light you paid for, on the walls. Check out LedGardner's PPFD matrix to see how much light is lost at that height. It was even worse than I anticipated.

Or imagine hanging 4 COBs lumped together in the center of a 2x2 tent instead of spreading them around. No one would do that. Why would it suddenly make sense to put all the light in the center of a 2x2 when using a board? Get 4 COBs or strips instead, spread the light properly and you can drop it to 4" to 6". That's a massive reduction in wall losses compared to hanging it at 18".

And then there is the cost. At spending close to half the money you can have a fixture with COBs or strips with the same efficiency and output. Or spend just as much for almost double the number of COBs/strips and run at higher efficiency still. Both with less wall losses to boot.

But you are right, I'm not going to argue (much) against the quantum board craze train. People are too vested in the idea that those things are a good idea. If people are willing to pay almost double for those boards instead of buying strips, I don't think they see logic and reason anymore. So I won't be able to reach them anyway.
I've also come to the conclusion that strips are the best way to go. IMO HLG was on the right track with the QB120 boards (120 diodes, 11" x 9.5") the QB132 (132 diodes, 12" x 9")and the QB96 strips (96 diodes, 2.5" x 22") - larger footprint with less diode count. I'd like to see them expand on the QB96 design and make a 32" x 2.5" version with 192 diodes - and sold stand alone.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
@WeedSexWeightsShakes Like I said, very poor light distribution and it's almost double the cost of COBs and led strips.

True, but I'm talking about reflectors on COBs. Reflectors make even less sense on COBs, but in 2015/2016 they were plenty of people who were convinced reflectors were a must have.

Sure they will work just fine, but people grow dank weed under CFL's just fine too. Just like reflectors on COBs worked perfectly fine too.

The point is people could have done better with bare COBs or led strips instead of QBs.

2+ppf/W in a sphere is meaningless because Quantum boards need to be at 18" or higher for correct uniformity and at that height you have lost any of that extra high efficiency light you paid for, on the walls. Check out LedGardner's PPFD matrix to see how much light is lost at that height. It was even worse than I anticipated.

Or imagine hanging 4 COBs lumped together in the center of a 2x2 tent instead of spreading them around. No one would do that. Why would it suddenly make sense to put all the light in the center of a 2x2 when using a board? Get 4 COBs or strips instead, spread the light properly and you can drop it to 4" to 6". That's a massive reduction in wall losses compared to hanging it at 18".

And then there is the cost. At spending close to half the money you can have a fixture with COBs or strips with the same efficiency and output. Or spend just as much for almost double the number of COBs/strips and run at higher efficiency still. Both with less wall losses to boot.

But you are right, I'm not going to argue (much) against the quantum board craze train. People are too vested in the idea that those things are a good idea. If people are willing to pay almost double for those boards instead of buying strips, I don't think they see logic and reason anymore. So I won't be able to reach them anyway.
Lol, I want whatever you're vaping........i don't give a shit about some flat pane measurements with user error.

Idk where your getting higher efficiency, less losses from without proof/ sphere tested builds?
 
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