Bud Structure

Rhizogenic

Rhizogenic

Member
I'm interested to hear what some of you consider to be good bud structure. I understand that this is subjective and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the quality of the flowers.

For example, I prefer the effects of longer flowering sativa dominant plants that often produce flower clusters that one couldn't call a "nug". High quality strains can look mangy like this. More often than not density is a desirable trait and also one that allows a bud to better survive a trimming machine (something I'm looking for). I've found a nice balance of sativa like effects and indica structure in a pheno of sensi star from paradise's old stock. Can anyone point me to other examples?
 
Do you mean buds like this?

PA180018.jpg


If so, that is Columbian Gold according to google.
 
hsfkush said:
Do you mean buds like this?

PA180018.jpg


If so, that is Columbian Gold according to google.
Click to expand...

That's a good example of what I'm trying to avoid. It probably smokes well, but if I ever run something like that it will only be one plant because they stretch like mad and are a pain to manage.

The pheno of sensi star that I had years back would produce buds like golf balls. I've secured some sannie's herijuana that's supposed to have this type of structure but I'm still looking for more suggestions if anyone has any experience.
 
Rhizogenic said:
That's a good example of what I'm trying to avoid. It probably smokes well, but if I ever run something like that it will only be one plant because they stretch like mad and are a pain to manage.

The pheno of sensi star that I had years back would produce buds like gold balls. I've secured some sannie's herijuana that's supposed to have this type of structure but I'm still looking for more suggestions if anyone has any experience.
Click to expand...

That very well could be the newer' Columbian Gold that's been diluted with genetics.. here's what the 72' looks like, grows like a damn ornamental shrub/bush with hella-tight internode spacing.

ZboMWPB.png
 
Nice Ol Bud said:
Whats the highest yeilding strains out there? Sorry OP.. just got this quick question lol.
Click to expand...

There are hundreds of threads on that topic but a quick answer is probably a sat/ind hybrid that shows hybrid vigor. These plants will have larger bud structure coming from an indica with the growth rate and frame of a sativa. Blue dream is a good example. Afghan haze is another. Look at the "growing large plants thread" on icmag.
 
Rhizogenic said:
There are hundreds of threads on that topic but a quick answer is probably a sat/ind hybrid that shows hybrid vigor. These plants will have larger bud structure coming from an indica with the growth rate and frame of a sativa. Blue dream is a good example. Afghan haze is another. Look at the "growing large plants thread" on icmag.
Click to expand...

Cool man good looking out.
 
Rhizogenic said:
I'm interested to hear what some of you consider to be good bud structure. I understand that this is subjective and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the quality of the flowers.
Click to expand...

Individually dense/heavy buds are certainly what the commercial MARKET prefers.

From a trimming perspective, stuff that makes big colas and has high calyx/leaf ratio (ie mostly flowers/little leaves) is the "best".

From a smoking perspective, as you've noted the more interesting sativa landrace strains typically have a more "stretchy" or open flower pattern with leaves. Looks like schwagg, smokes like heaven!

Herijuana, which is a strain you mentioned, was specifically bred to have an indica-like high in a plant with an "open" sativa-like bud structure. AK-47, in contrast, was bred sort of the opposite; to have a sativa-like high with a more compact indica-like structure.

From a more mundane/botanical perspective, sativa genetics often come from more humid/tropical climates, and the open bud structure is much better as resisting humidity. Indica plants are typically from arid/dry climates. They make nice dense buds, but they're also much more prone to bud rot towards the end of the season in colder/wet climates outdoors, or in not perfectly humidity controlled indoor environments. If you want dense individual buds but a sativa-like effect, you'll want a hybrid.

I've found a nice balance of sativa like effects and indica structure in a pheno of sensi star from paradise's old stock. Can anyone point me to other examples?
Click to expand...
Green crack is one that doesn't make colas, but has a sativa-like stimulating effect and puts out dense round buds (You can see my signature for a grow report on a seeded S1 version with pictures).

As mentioned above, AK-47 is one strain that was bred to have dense buds, but retain a more mixed or sativa-like high.

Heck, the original Skunk #1 was bred with this in mind, and you could still do a lot worse, I think.
 
Jogro,

Thanks for the reply. Your sickmeds logs are part of the reason I picked up a pack of green crack S1's already. They will be outdoors this season at roughly 45 degrees north. We'll see if I can pull em in before the end of September. Do you plan to try anything else offered by sickmeds?

I got the herijuana from sannies for a few patients with serious pain issues, one who also needs something to put her to sleep. From the grows I've seen of it on opengrow and other sites this strain fits the bill of a narcotic body high plant that produces dense round buds.

I've grown AK47 and a local hybrid called "Black Betty" or just "Betty" that is a sour diesel/ak cross and both of these plants did have the shorter stature of indica doms with overall bud shape to match that stature. However, they both were not dense. This, I think, allowed them to stay out til mid-late October through wet weather with almost no mold. I've seen that people have had mold issues with AK47 before so maybe my clones source wasn't reliable at the time.

I'll still hand trim a plant with irregular bud structure if I think it's going to get mangled by a machine, but I'd prefer not to hire people for security purposes.
 
I just started some Herijuana last night. Tiniest beans I've ever seen, but my KO Kush beans were tiny and they certainly started just fine. On the subject of bud structure, I think the only thing that most people can really agree on is that they don't like smoking a whole bunch of leaf. Plants that are overwhelmingly leafy usually make excellent hash plants and little else. Some sativas have extremely open bud structure, here is one of my killing fields that I like for her incredibly large calyxes and massive foxtail buds, dried and cured. However, she is almost all calyx and little else, and those big fat calyxes load up a bowl faster than you would think.
kf3e_zpsbba29a18.jpg

Contrasted to my Sannie's Jack, still a sativa but with a much more dense bud structure
sjack4_zpsc019dd77.jpg

Both plants have sativa dominant genetics, and fairly similar highs, but the buds on the killing fields are much more open and airy. Hmm.... don't have many good dried indica pictures right now, but here's an up close of my cut of Jabba's Stash (original bubba x snow lotus) from Bodhi, which as it dries and cures pulls into dense, tight nugs with no air space inside them.
JabbasStash2_zps08f41b82.jpg

personally, I think, it's a matter of opinion, as long as the buds are grown to ripeness.
thin, whispy, anemic looking calyxes and an overabundance of leaf and hair do not indicate a sativa, they indicate a plant that was harvested too early. Every kind of herb will produce its own uniquely beautiful flowers if grown to its liking, but as a matter of personal preference, I have always found Sour Diesel to have just the most amazing bud structure; not too dense, not too airy, but overflowing with calyxes and a bubbly, exotic appearance. At least that was the cut I ran around 6 years ago, and a couple of the nicer cuts I've seen since.
 
Clankie said:
I just started some Herijuana last night. Tiniest beans I've ever seen, but my KO Kush beans were tiny and they certainly started just fine.
Click to expand...
If its OK, could you please post a report on this when you're done?

I'd love, in particular, to hear your opinion on how this one stacks up in comparison to Sannies Jack, KO Kush, and Kill. Fields, among other Sannie strains.

thin, whispy, anemic looking calyxes and an overabundance of leaf and hair do not indicate a sativa, they indicate a plant that was harvested too early.
Click to expand...
Insufficient, or poor-spectrum lighting can make stretchy/wispy buds too.

In general, I think bud structure is more important for commercial growers. If you're going to sell the product, it needs "bag appeal" to be marketable and fetch top dollar.

If you're growing for personal use, I think absolute bud quality is the most important thing. If you can get nice LOOKING/easier trimming buds, so much the better, but those things should be way lower in the list of factors for considering a strain, in my opinion.
 
Rhizogenic said:
Jogro,

Thanks for the reply. Your sickmeds logs are part of the reason I picked up a pack of green crack S1's already. They will be outdoors this season at roughly 45 degrees north. We'll see if I can pull em in before the end of September.
Click to expand...
You're welcome.
The Green Cracks finish remarkably fast; they're a true 7-8 week strain indoors.
I think even up North where you are, you should be able to finish before the end of September.
Certainly if you've done it before with any conventional indica/kush strain, you'll get it done with these.

Do you plan to try anything else offered by sickmeds?
Click to expand...
You mean other than the William's Wonder?

You want dense bud structure?. . .holy cow. . .try THAT one! (Again, see grow report below in my signature, if you haven't already). This one should be a great commercial/medical strain, in that it gives high yields of high density high potency indica buds.

In response to the question, yes, I'll definitely be growing more Sickmeds stuff.

The next one from Sickmeds I'll probably be growing is Wonder Kush, which is (Jedi Kush F3 x William's Wonder). This one was supposed to be out commercially now, but the breeder ran into some serious personal troubles and I think he had to delay it a few months. Don't know exactly when this will be available, but it should be pretty soon.

He's got one or two others that I'd like to try, including his Chupacabras (which is Trainwreck IBL x Strawberry Fire), and I will eventually get to those.

I got the herijuana from sannies for a few patients with serious pain issues, one who also needs something to put her to sleep. From the grows I've seen of it on opengrow and other sites this strain fits the bill of a narcotic body high plant that produces dense round buds.
Click to expand...
That's what its supposed to do, alright. In terms of growing, this one supposedly takes a long time to veg if you want to get a decent yield, so be prepared.

This one is also on my "to do" list, though for some reason, it always seems to get displaced to the #2 position!
 
Clankie said:
Some sativas have extremely open bud structure, here is one of my killing fields that I like for her incredibly large calyxes and massive foxtail buds, dried and cured. However, she is almost all calyx and little else, and those big fat calyxes load up a bowl faster than you would think.
kf3e_zpsbba29a18.jpg
Click to expand...

How long does your killing fields flower? Looks like a 12 weeker. I have 4 inside now, 2 green, 2 purple, all smell very different. Can't wait to try them.

Clankie said:
personally, I think, it's a matter of opinion, as long as the buds are grown to ripeness.
thin, whispy, anemic looking calyxes and an overabundance of leaf and hair do not indicate a sativa, they indicate a plant that was harvested too early. Every kind of herb will produce its own uniquely beautiful flowers if grown to its liking, but as a matter of personal preference, I have always found Sour Diesel to have just the most amazing bud structure; not too dense, not too airy, but overflowing with calyxes and a bubbly, exotic appearance. At least that was the cut I ran around 6 years ago, and a couple of the nicer cuts I've seen since.
Click to expand...

Well said. It's true that the volume of bract material to leaf material seems to increase through the flowering cycle. Some plants just have so much leaf though. Cannacopia's BC Roadkill X DC comes to mind, those were leafy as hell and def. DC dominant.

Jogro said:
Insufficient, or poor-spectrum lighting can make stretchy/wispy buds too.

In general, I think bud structure is more important for commercial growers. If you're going to sell the product, it needs "bag appeal" to be marketable and fetch top dollar.

If you're growing for personal use, I think absolute bud quality is the most important thing. If you can get nice LOOKING/easier trimming buds, so much the better, but those things should be way lower in the list of factors for considering a strain, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Bag appeal is important for commercial purposes. I'm just looking to save time. Picture an apple and a starfruit with leaves growing off the exterior of both. Which would you rather trim...:)

Jogro said:
You're welcome.
The Green Cracks finish remarkably fast; they're a true 7-8 week strain indoors.
I think even up North where you are, you should be able to finish before the end of September.
Certainly if you've done it before with any conventional indica/kush strain, you'll get it done with these.


You mean other than the William's Wonder?

You want dense bud structure?. . .holy cow. . .try THAT one! (Again, see grow report below in my signature, if you haven't already). This one should be a great commercial/medical strain, in that it gives high yields of high density high potency indica buds.

In response to the question, yes, I'll definitely be growing more Sickmeds stuff.

The next one from Sickmeds I'll probably be growing is Wonder Kush, which is (Jedi Kush F3 x William's Wonder). This one was supposed to be out commercially now, but the breeder ran into some serious personal troubles and I think he had to delay it a few months. Don't know exactly when this will be available, but it should be pretty soon.

He's got one or two others that I'd like to try, including his Chupacabras (which is Trainwreck IBL x Strawberry Fire), and I will eventually get to those.
Click to expand...

It would be great to get the GC in before October. The current early bird is a DJ Short blueberry that is done done by 9/25.

Yes, I did see your Willy's grow. Massive clubs of flowers I must say. I wouldn't dare put her outside in my climate. The Bizarre looks like a beautiful plant too. If sickmeds wins me over with the GC I'll try the others. Their website layout and content is a welcomed change to other seed companies' soft science and marketing oriented approach.

I'll keep an eye out for your other logs and if my partner permits it I'll be posting results of the outdoor trials.
 
Nice Ol Bud said:
Whats the highest yeilding strains out there? Sorry OP.. just got this quick question lol.
Click to expand...
I dont know if it the largest strain in world but Kalshinikov by greenhouse has i think 1200-1400m2 yield I would bet there exaturatating a little but I have looked at strains for a while I think greenhouse kalshnikov its really big ak47xwhitewidow
 
Rhizogenic said:
How long does your killing fields flower? Looks like a 12 weeker. I have 4 inside now, 2 green, 2 purple, all smell very different. Can't wait to try them.



Well said. It's true that the volume of bract material to leaf material seems to increase through the flowering cycle. Some plants just have so much leaf though. Cannacopia's BC Roadkill X DC comes to mind, those were leafy as hell and def. DC dominant.



Bag appeal is important for commercial purposes. I'm just looking to save time. Picture an apple and a starfruit with leaves growing off the exterior of both. Which would you rather trim...:)



It would be great to get the GC in before October. The current early bird is a DJ Short blueberry that is done done by 9/25.

Yes, I did see your Willy's grow. Massive clubs of flowers I must say. I wouldn't dare put her outside in my climate. The Bizarre looks like a beautiful plant too. If sickmeds wins me over with the GC I'll try the others. Their website layout and content is a welcomed change to other seed companies' soft science and marketing oriented approach.

Roadkill has huge leaves, Yea i hate those small short indica strains with huge leaves mainly short indica's

I'll keep an eye out for your other logs and if my partner permits it I'll be posting results of the outdoor trials.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top