budding with organic vs synthetic nutes

I was talking with a professional grower who said that he always starts veg in organic super soil but when it comes time to flower he uses synthetic nutrients. In his opinion its much more efficient to bloom with the salt based fertilizers. Would people here agree or recommend a better solution? We actually live in Asia where we do not have access to as many organic nutrients that you would have in the West.

Overgrowtho said:

I was talking with a professional grower who said that he always starts veg in organic super soil but when it comes time to flower he uses synthetic nutrients. In his opinion its much more efficient to bloom with the salt based fertilizers. Would people here agree or recommend a better solution? We actually live in Asia where we do not have access to as many organic nutrients that you would have in the West.

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This makes the smallest amount of cents to me lol. The whole draw of organic gardening is sustainability with reusing soils, not using salts, using less water. Et.

Let alone the quality... also re training the plant on a nutrient uptake level to start taking up chelated salts from the natural way with the microherd.

I don't consider my self a "professional" however most that I know or follow never combine growing styles. Go synthetic all the way or grow organic. My two cents

This was exactly my thought. If your really seeking to get the rapid efficient growth, why no just go for soil-less inert medium, or hydro.

Otherwise do organic living soil, however mixing them seems so counter intuitive. The grower I spoke with about his strategy has been in the growing game for about 7 years and is only 25 years old. I expect his strategy will evolve soon.... I am not sure I would want to replicate such a hybrid approach!

Why would you go to all the trouble of making living soil to then fuck it up with crap

Leeski said:

Why would you go to all the trouble of making living soil to then fuck it up with crap

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Most likely never was really on a good soil program. I've seen this actually pretty often. Some growers label it "super soil" but really it's nothing special. Typically bagged soil
Mixed with random amendments and compost et. Not a true living soil. And when you try to flower with super soil like that it can leave you disappointed. And the early organic gardener will dig in, change recipe or base soils. Increase this or that and dial in the soil over many years.
The eager professionals when need crops right away often go back to synthetics before the cycle is over.
This ruining any chance of recycling soil. Throwing money down the drain. And taking a hit on quality. IMO.

green_machine_two9er said:

Most likely never was really on a good soil program. I've seen this actually pretty often. Some growers label it "super soil" but really it's nothing special. Typically bagged soil
Mixed with random amendments and compost et. Not a true living soil. And when you try to flower with super soil like that it can leave you disappointed. And the early organic gardener will dig in, change recipe or base soils. Increase this or that and dial in the soil over many years.
The eager professionals when need crops right away often go back to synthetics before the cycle is over.
This ruining any chance of recycling soil. Throwing money down the drain. And taking a hit on quality. IMO.

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Yer I have seen it in the past also just don’t make any sense what so ever to me either
I love my soil as much as my girls just put some avocado halves 2” deep last wk to check my worm population full on avocado shag pad lol

The plant can't tell the difference it's oblivious to organic or synthetic it's the same minerals.

Star Dog said:

The plant can't tell the difference it's oblivious to organic or synthetic it's the same minerals.

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I will respectfully disagree. First and biggest evidence is the increase of pathogen And pest resistance found in plants grown organically in living soil. This is well documented.

Also If I can tell the difference as the consumer it wouldn't make since that the plant would know.

I'll look for some info on this but Ive read the actual root structures is different.

It's just counter intuitive to think the plant doesn't know the difference when the plant is symbiotic relationships with the life in the soil.

green_machine_two9er said:

I will respectfully disagree. First and biggest evidence is the increase of pathogen And pest resistance found in plants grown organically in living soil. This is well documented.

Also If I can tell the difference as the consumer it wouldn't make since that the plant would know.

I'll look for some info on this but Ive read the actual root structures is different.

It's just counter intuitive to think the plant doesn't know the difference when the plant is symbiotic relationships with the life in the soil.

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It's not really an opinion it's a science based fact?

Star Dog said:

It's not really an opinion it's a science based fact?

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Yes that's what I was saying really. There's plenty of evidence. I'll get some links together when I get to the computer. This is not just cannibus. But with agricultural as a whole there's plenty of evidence. Even the vitamin And mineral levels are different in synthetic grown vs organic. If there are physiological differences then Is very plain to see the plant knows, or feels (or whatever plants do) the subtle differences in feeding styles.

Or we can talk about plant exudes. The fact that plants will secrete exudates To influence the mixrobial and bacteria populations.

These functions cease in soiless gardening. There's no need for plant And soil to talk about what the plant wants next, because the synthetics are force fed by professional gardeners who know what the plant wants, even more than it does itself.

green_machine_two9er said:

Yes that's what I was saying really. There's plenty of evidence. I'll get some links together when I get to the computer. This is not just cannibus. But with agricultural as a whole there's plenty of evidence. Even the vitamin And mineral levels are different in synthetic grown vs organic. If there are physiological differences then Is very plain to see the plant knows, or feels (or whatever plants do) the subtle differences in feeding styles.

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I would never argue that organic fruit and vegetables aren't superior they are imo but apparently to the plant npk etc organic or synthetic is no different?

If you don't know how to feed plants all through flower with "Organic" stuff, it is more efficient to use chemical fertilizers.

If you don't have enough "organic" stuff to feed throughout flower, it is more efficient to us chemical fertilizers.

When you have a system that works, there will be a few hiccups when you try to change things up. If dude were to switch to organics he'd probably yield less the first time or two and burn off a bunch of leaves while he figured things out. Eventually results might be "better" than using the chemical stuff, but that initial drop might be more than people want to mess with.

Star Dog said:

I would never argue that organic fruit and vegetables aren't superior they are imo but apparently to the plant npk etc organic or synthetic is no different?

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Agree with this, as far as an organic or synthetic suppliment of any nutrients, not just n-p-k but any nutritional input is irrelevant to the plant itself where it comes from. This being said cannabis does however prefer different forms of nitrogen over others but at the end of the day its still N and will be metebolically broken down and used by the plant. So yes the Plant itself doesnt care or even know "where" its food source comes from, however the soil does care and is either an inert medium or thriving living organic soil.

@green_machine_two9er
I agree with you that feeding salts upposed to organic nutrients is completely different and the mediums and the way the plants are fed is much different... but lets say you bring your plant a cheese burger on a paper plate you plan on composting and recycling. Now lets assume star brings his plant a cheese burger on a plastic plate headed into the trash because its garbage. Do you think the plant cares what plate the cheese burger is on or is it just a cheese burger at the end of the day? Your method is organic and gives back in the compost, Stars method is sythentic and cannot be recycled but the plant still ate a cheese burger no matter what happened to the plate. Same with organic nutrients and synthetic, plant cannot tell its eating salty nitrates or organic NO3 as it preffers, it just uptakes the nitrogen no matter what because it needs to, synthetic salts are terrible for organic living soil and eventually for plants being perpetually grown in the same medium over time, but in the 2 months it takes to flower out a mature plant the salts wont do anything but provide readily available nutrition to your plants while certainly killing off any chance of a bio diverse life in its medium. My 2 cents...

green_machine_two9er said:

Or we can talk about plant exudes. The fact that plants will secrete exudates To influence the mixrobial and bacteria populations.

These functions cease in soiless gardening. There's no need for plant And soil to talk about what the plant wants next, because the synthetics are force fed by professional gardeners who know what the plant wants, even more than it does itself.

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These function don't cease in hydroponics, actually the plant produces more exudates in search of biology. Exudates are an essential part of the carbon cycle for organic growers, but exudates are a massive source of wasted energy that takes away from the yield.

green_machine_two9er said:

This makes the smallest amount of cents to me lol. The whole draw of organic gardening is sustainability with reusing soils, not using salts, using less water. Et.

Let alone the quality... also re training the plant on a nutrient uptake level to start taking up chelated salts from the natural way with the microherd.

I don't consider my self a "professional" however most that I know or follow never combine growing styles. Go synthetic all the way or grow organic. My two cents

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It actually makes more sense to grow vegetative plants in hydroponics and then switch to living soil for flower. Young, susceptible plants can benefit from a sterile environment and the logistics of large scale production in vegetative growth are easier in hydroponic production.

Hydroponics can produce rapid growth with empty calories (plants that look healthy, but have low Brix) Living soil systems produces better yield, quality and Brix. But you can't argue with the convenience of hydroponics for vegetative production, I think.

regenerative_cultivation said:

Living soil systems produces better yield,

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That a fact? Well let's see im testing in my own setup. Perhaps it needs to be qualified more... my friend swears by the opposite but let's see...

Claiming better yeilds and quality from soil raises an eyebrow, that is some statement to make?

Overgrowtho said:

That a fact? Well let's see im testing in my own setup. Perhaps it needs to be qualified more... my friend swears by the opposite but let's see...

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Star Dog said:

Claiming better yeilds and quality from soil raises an eyebrow, that is some statement to make?

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I agree. I'm an organic soil grower and chemicals definitely grow buds faster. I would probably guess that organics can produce better quality but I haven't done a side by side comparison.

Star Dog said:

Claiming better yeilds and quality from soil raises an eyebrow, that is some statement to make?

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Has there been any research on this with side to side studies of living soil and synthetic soiless/hydro?

I know taste supposedly can be better with organics but I was not aware of other advantages in terms of yield etc.

I'm very interested.