Buds quality LEDs VS HPS

coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
In actuality, however, plants do not absorb all incoming sunlight (due to reflection, respiration requirements of photosynthesis and the need for optimal solar radiation levels) and do not convert all harvested energy into biomass, which results in an overall photosynthetic efficiency of 3 to 6% of total solar radiation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency

Very small amount of light is converted, just consider watts as a measurement of heat since you can directly translate them into joules which can be translated into btu.
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I remember citing that article from the last time we had this conversation. (Or the time before that :lol:)

Taking into account the first 47% loss from photons in the non bio available range, as with our indoor lights.
That changes the leaf efficiency considerably, once recalculated it could be as high as 22% instead of 3-6%
So giving the differences in LED and HPS spectrum their must be a difference in leaf efficiency between the two light sources.
Albeit a small difference. ? But that would change the amount of light turned into biomass overall.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
You’re sure I don’t know? I research everything. Not just what hits my agenda.

Those bulbs were the highest cri at the time. Phillips sold plenty in the old versions. They were repurposed for auto showrooms and other retail. And there are new versions made specifically for that. And the second jacket protects our eyes and skin.

All info available from Phillips.

The horticulture bulbs are re designed to let uv through and with a horticulture specific spectrum from specific gasses and glass. And must be run on a low frequency square wave ballast to take advantage of the new design. Even the base is part of the tech.

And the university chose it as the best spectrum for plants. Not cobs or full spectrum low watt diodes.

Sorry dude. Your info is wrong and you are trying to bend the facts to suit you.

It’s not a re-purposed light it is completely re designed.

What you are selling is already old led tech as far as horticulture is concerned. Yours are the re-purposes but not redesigned lights.


Old hps bulbs grow plants fine. But newer horticulture designed bulbs work better.


Same with all tech over time.


I was a high line sales manager for over 20 years. I taught sales for a long time. My advice to you is to not oversell. You just bought my new light back basically if I was trying to purchase from you.
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Over sale? I made a factual statement that 315 cmh doesn't contain much uv. You ran with it. I could honestly care less if you purchase from us or not. I'm sure the buyer/seller experience in the case would be lack luster anyways.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
coreywebster said:
I remember citing that article from the last time we had this conversation. (Or the time before that :lol:)

Taking into account the first 47% loss from photons in the non bio available range, as with our indoor lights.
That changes the leaf efficiency considerably, once recalculated it could be as high as 22% instead of 3-6%
So giving the differences in LED and HPS spectrum their must be a difference in leaf efficiency between the two light sources.
Albeit a small difference. ? But that would change the amount of light turned into biomass overall.
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need more information but could be true, i'd like to see some more research done could be very useful.
 
Humple

Humple

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
I try to defend you guys and then you post misinformation. Why bother?

I have posted the university of Utah info on this. I will put up the chart reprinted by cycloptics again. It is on his thread already.

Phillips 315 cmh bulbs are specific to horticulture. They use special gasses and glass to get the most par and uv. The 4200k has more. Both have some a and b.

And no. They don’t have the percentage the sun has or the same as a uvb specific bulb.

The new bulbs are not made for human vision at all. They even designed a new ballast to run the new hotter burning gasses.

They are specifically designed to grow plants by a massive lighting company.

The old 400 and 860 are showroom window retail lights.


Your lights are not specific to horticulture at all. They are a hobby project compared to the design and testing done by Phillips and collaborating lamp manufacturers. You have lost credibility once again. There was no need for your mis information.

https://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/GB USU Spectral Characterization link.pdf

The university has determined the 315 cmh is the best stand alone horticulture bulb available.
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I see you quoted me, but I'm not sure what misinformation you believe was in my post, dude. I made no comment on UV or CMH.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
mauricem00 said:
plants have close to 400 pigments and we don't know what most of them do but the absorption spectrum tells us what light plants use and what percentage of each wavelength they use.In time we will have a better understanding of this but for now we can assume plants use most of the light they receive in the 300-680nm range and convert that to chemical energy and not heat
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Earlier in the thread I posted a link to the university of Michigan from 2016. They have gone deeper into this science now. They are seeming to have picked up where NASA left off.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Over sale? I made a factual statement that 315 cmh doesn't contain much uv. You ran with it. I could honestly care less if you purchase from us or not. I'm sure the buyer/seller experience in the case would be lack luster anyways.
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No you said they were simply repurposed light bulbs. Yours are. 315 cmh agro bulbs are not. They are specifically designed for plants.

And you are sure of a lot of things about me for someone who doesn’t know me.

I’m the best customer. I figure shit out for myself and don’t need help from an agenda filled retailer.

It’s nice when they offer with no agenda though.

Then I pay cash and am never heard from unless there is a legitimate warrantee claim or I want more product.

You lose a lot making a statement like you just did to me in public.

Lackluster experience. Lol. You’re a lamp salesman. You’re not selling me a fucking yacht or sports car.

And apparently I am not welcome in your store because of my opinion.

Nice work!
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
I didn't say that. I said maybe it could be improved.

I have increased terpenes in my flowers with practice and trial and error under the same hps lamps I have always used.

1 side by side conducted by the grower in question is interesting. And it proves the lights work and work well. But it does not prove what can be done as far as plant potential with them except for the one grower and Grow used as an example.

Real scientific testing to conclude such things requires third party testers and multiple trials with identical parameters.

and then there is always the factor of different strains responding differently to the heat and intensity. I constantly adjust the distance of the plants to the lamps individually for best results.
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I have grown with LEDs ,T5s and HPS and found that each one requires different nutrients and growing styles.if I tried to grow with LEDs the same way I grow with T5s my results would not be very good if the plant survived. when using a new kind of light you need to learn how to grow with that light. I almost lost a plant to cal-mag deficiency the first time I tried growing with bridgelux strips. light plays a role but grower skill and style is much more important
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
No you said they were simply repurposed light bulbs. Yours are. 315 cmh agro bulbs are not. They are specifically designed for plants.

And you are sure of a lot of things about me for someone who doesn’t know me.

I’m the best customer. I figure shit out for myself and don’t need help from an agenda filled retailer.

It’s nice when they offer with no agenda though.

Then I pay cash and am never heard from unless there is a legitimate warrantee claim or I want more product.

You lose a lot making a statement like you just did to me in public.

Lackluster experience. Lol. You’re a lamp salesman. You’re not selling me a fucking yacht or sports car.

And apparently I am not welcome in your store because of my opinion.

Nice work!
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Your welcome in our store any time. I've noticed your demeanor twords others. Humility isn't your strong suite. Just making a statement on observation that I'll be just fine without your buisness lol.
 
mauricem00

mauricem00

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
View attachment 4046350 View attachment 4046351

https://www.rollitup.org/t/apache-at600-led-vs-1000w-hps-blue-dream-grow.813412/
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if I took 2 buds. dried one to 60% moisture content and the other to 10% moisture content which would show a higher percentage of THC?( hint: water dilutes chemical content) it is that easy to produce studies or teat result to support any position you want to take. this kind of junk science is way to common.those test reports do not show moisture content
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Your welcome in our store any time. I've noticed your demeanor twords others. Humility isn't your strong suite. Just making a statement on observation that I'll be just fine without your buisness lol.
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LOL
MMG is one of the most abrasive and emotionally detached people I've ever met online.
But he's no dummy and I kinda like him.

Everyone is weird in their own special way... o_O
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
LOL
MMG is one of the most abrasive and emotionally detached people I've ever met online.
But he's no dummy and I kinda like him.

Everyone is weird in their own special way... o_O
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Thank you ;-)

I am not really like that in person. I think it’s just my writing that pisses everyone off. I am honest and straight to the point. And I stand behind my own research and experiences.

Many times when I log in I am very surprised my comment started any argument. Almost none of the factual university proven info I post to help answer questions everyone is arguing about is ever commented on. But the answers are in there and they do not always support commonly held beliefs here.

Also growing is all I have left and it has saved our lives literally so I am quite shy to listen to a forum or seller that has unsupported info and does not respond to accepted science. Just what they themselves invested in or are selling. I need my perpetual garden to continually produce as it is.

And when it comes to something I am interested and learning I am more concerned with the info than the virtual relationships.

For that I am often sorry.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Stephenj37826 said:
Your welcome in our store any time. I've noticed your demeanor twords others. Humility isn't your strong suite. Just making a statement on observation that I'll be just fine without your buisness lol.
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Well thanks for re pre throwing me out of your store.

You have only noticed that I don’t stand for bullshit.

The way I write is all you you are judging. You didn’t even comment on the newest led testing info I offered. You only answer in a way that promotes your business. Not that I blame you. You are doing your job.



But this is a public forum.......
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
This topic wastes more time on this forum than any other thread about growing, you know the fucking horse has been dead for a long time now lol.
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Flushing comes close but no one seems to learn anything new there either. There is still an argument about what the term even means.

But not in the real world. Only here.

And other weed forums

But this topic isn’t dead. New led lights are likely on the way with new pricing and better tech for plants.

So buckle up for the long ride. :-)
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
You only answer in a way that promotes your business. Not that I blame you. You are doing your job.
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True, it's fine that people try to sell stuff, but I feel it's not OK to post clear falsehoods in order to sell stuff and that just happens too often. Like when he posts that HPS only gets 2.1umol/s/W for the first 100 hours. Well that part might be true since it does drop a bit steeper in the first 100 hours, but to pretend that after that 100 hours the efficiency dropped to 90% or 85% is just a blatant lie (or idiocy) and any self respecting grow light seller should have known this. When I call him out and show an actual datasheet chart showing the benchmark 1000W HPS bulb "only" dropping to 95% after 10,000 hours he actually still defends his claim/lie by pretending color shift is what is losing the light. Uhm ... yeah.

Sad thing is that people here actually cheer him on for posting it. They don't care that it's a lie. The lie fits their their agenda too so it's all good.
 
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