Building a new grow room

I've got a brand spanking new 10x6 empty space just waiting to be filled with some plants and gear. I'm going to try to make the room multi-use (ie, more than just weed).

I will be splitting the room into two sections: one for vegging and one for flowering. I'm currently thinking that I will have one entry into the whole room, via the vegging section. Getting to the flowering room means going through the vegging room. I considered a door/entry for each section separately, but I don't want to bother with the expense or risk someone opening the flowering room accidentally. It's not out of the realm of possibilities yet, but I think I can make the single door thing work.

Each section will be wrapped in black & white poly. I'll make a couple of flaps for the entry between the two sections and keep them down via some velcro. Nothing fancy.

The idea is to have enough space for lots of experimentation. I'm going to start with ebb & flow, but I'd like to try DWC and perhaps some other techniques as well.

There are three main things I'm trying to work out at the moment.

The first is ventilation. I'm going to need lots of ventilation and I will probably want some odor control as well. I can vent the air outside, so I'll probably hold off on a carbon filter or something until I know what the odor situation is like. I don't plan on having many weeds plants on the go, so it should be somewhat reduced.

I've been thinking about the following idea for ventilation, but I'm looking for some input. I was thinking that I could have a single inline duct fan that draws air from both sections. This air would be sucked through a carbon filter (if I need it) and then vented outside. Here's a horrible sketch of what I'm thinking:

Provided I had a powerful enough fan, would this have any chance of working?

The second and third issues are related - lighting and table setup. My original thought was to use tube fluoros for vegging and flowering, even though I know that an HPS is likely the better choice for flowering. Based on that assumption, I was thinking of doing the following:


Basically the two walls of each section would be lined with (approx) 4x2 or 4x3 tables. This would give me some space to move around and I could easily suspend the fluoros over the plants.

As I continued to read, I became more convinced that a 400/430W HPS was the way to go. The problem with that, though, is that it's got limited reach. I've seen claims of 3x3, 4x4, and 4x2, which doesn't give me a lot of room to play with. At 3x3, I could still get away with one 4x3 table (or 5x3), with a little left over (supported with additional lighting - CFL maybe?). The hydro shop I went to suggested I build a 4x4 table right in the middle (or at least centered along one wall). Given that I'll have the poly on the walls, I would think I could get a little more light by being closer to them. In any case, it's what I'm going to start with. It may turn out that I just don't need any additional lighting.

Any thoughts on any of this would be greatly appreciated.

1nce again the same problem just like in a other post posted today most air will be sucked from the first room leaving hardly any air getting sucked in the second

Second problem with one air exhaust is that when you're running exhaust you'll be sucking out valuable Co2 from both rooms when you may only need to cool one.

Let me do you a favor, erase the thought of flouroso from your head, the only place for them in growing is cloning. Otherwise put them over your workbench in the garrage.

Also, remember when designing a grow room, think in 3D. Rooms can be split top to bottom as well as front to back, and side to side. You might want to allow more room for flowering then vegging depending on what type of growing you're going to do. If you're going ebb and gro you're probably looking at a SOG or SCROG in which case top to bottom might be a good way to go. Two 5'x6' rooms can produce a lot of herb. Hydrofarm drip ring systems will work very well in that size room. I produced large amounts of herbs in a 5x5 closet with that system. See my pic "have a bowl" under pics, those buds were grown with that system in a 5x5 closet. Depending on ceiling height anything can happen.

Hope it helps
FFF

also keep in mind a carbon filter only has 1 end with a duct on it the other end is sealed and all air is pulled in via holes in the side of the filter so that all air entering the filter passes thru the carbon

All valuable information.

I hadn't considered the fact that air wouldn't be pulled through equally. Two fans it is.

Good point about the filters. If I need them, I'd need one for each room.

Regarding fluoros, I've seen enough examples here of using fluoros for vegging and flowering to know that it can work. Having said that, I'll try fluoros for vegging first and if I don't like the results I'll switch to something else. As I've said, this is sort of a multi-purpose room. From what I've read, lettuce, for example, works very well with fluoros.

Excellent points about thinking in 3D. I'm just getting started, so a single level will be good for now until I get more experience. I have seen examples of stacking and stuff that are interesting. Something to think about in the future for sure.

Worped said:

All valuable information.

I hadn't considered the fact that air wouldn't be pulled through equally. Two fans it is.

.

Click to expand...

actually, if you're counting, i think you're going to need three fans, all with variable controllers. you are trying to pull a vaccum through a split vent and its going to suck most of its air from where the least resistance is. if you put a fan on the further room and it is too powerful you won't get any air from the nearer room.

much better to vent the second room to the first. then a totally separate vent from the first room out of the area. then put the carbon filter in the first room and you have treated the air from both rooms.

desertrat said:

actually, if you're counting, i think you're going to need three fans, all with variable controllers. you are trying to pull a vaccum through a split vent and its going to suck most of its air from where the least resistance is. if you put a fan on the further room and it is too powerful you won't get any air from the nearer room.

Click to expand...

So having one fan in each room exhausting through a shared pipe won't work? I'll have to think about that one.

desertrat said:

much better to vent the second room to the first. then a totally separate vent from the first room out of the area. then put the carbon filter in the first room and you have treated the air from both rooms.

Click to expand...

Also an interesting idea and requires only 1 filter instead of 2, which is good for costs. However, suppose I turned off the second fan to allow a CO2 source to kick in for a little bit. If the first fan was still going, wouldn't it also draw air through the vent into the second room? If so, I'd have to make sure I had some sort of valve. An inline would need something extra, but maybe a squirrel cage would already have such a thing? I haven't don't much research into those yet.

I'm such a n00b I can hardly stand it.

Worped said:

Also an interesting idea and requires only 1 filter instead of 2, which is good for costs. However, suppose I turned off the second fan to allow a CO2 source to kick in for a little bit. If the first fan was still going, wouldn't it also draw air through the vent into the second room? If so, I'd have to make sure I had some sort of valve. An inline would need something extra, but maybe a squirrel cage would already have such a thing? I haven't don't much research into those yet.

I'm such a n00b I can hardly stand it.

Click to expand...

if you are getting fresh air from outside co2 is a luxury and i would wait to add it until you've done a few grows. you will want to design to accomodate it in the future so i'll tackle it anyway.

first, i would reverse the air flow if you can vent it so that the air goes from the veg room to the flower room and then separately out of the flower room. that lets you put the carbon filter in the flower room where most of the smell is instead of piping smelly air all around.

second, you're going to want to add the co2 to the flowering room. you shut off both venting fans for whatever the recommended period is for your size room (there is a calculator somewhere on this site) during and after adding the co2.

that sound good?

other thoughts
- you may want to add an aircooled hood and ducting for the 400 watt hps -that will reduce your temps and let you get the light down on the plants. that light was a good choice for your space, btw.

- i would seriously consider doing your first grow in soil. you can get all the basics of weed cultivation and your room setup before you add the complexity of hydro. yes, hydro will give you higher yields if you do it right, but its more likely to give you nothing compared to the forgiveness of growing in soil. save hydro for grow number 2.

I strongly suggest running separate venting if finances are not an issue for several reasons. Sounds like you’ve made up your mind on going fluoro’s in the vegging room. I’ll put my two cents in again to try and persuade you to go HID instead. Yup, you sure can veg under fluoro’s but when it comes to growing it’s all about lumens and you just can’t get enough with tubes. Even a small Metal Halide will produce far more lumens then a tube. When growing indoors one of the most important considerations is node separation. With a HID light you will have tighter nodes and stronger plants able to support bigger buds. If your nodes are every three inches apart instead of every six inches apart under fluoro’s that’s twice the budding sites. Twice the budding sites are a good thing. You’ll end up there just depends how much you want to spend on what will become future cloning equipment. Enough anti-fluoro.
By vegging under fluoro’s and flowering under HID you are going to have two very different temperatures in your rooms. I will make the assumption that as money permits you’ll be running supplemental Co2. You don’t want to be sucking Co2 out of your flower room every time you exhaust your veg room. Get’s expensive and without a Co2 sniffer it’s likely you’ll be below optimum levels in your flowering room.
As your plants increase in size the levels of humidity will also increase requiring more ventilation. With only one exhaust you may have one very dry room and one very wet room, or exhaust that never sleeps which isn’t good.
Food for thought. I’ll include a pic of one of my rooms if I can figure it out. New here

desertrat said:

if you are getting fresh air from outside co2 is a luxury and i would wait to add it until you've done a few grows. you will want to design to accomodate it in the future so i'll tackle it anyway.

Click to expand...

What would qualify as "outside"? I have an air exchanger in my house that sucks in air from outside and vents it all over the place. I also have another loose intake near my furnace that always has fresh air coming in. Both of these vents are close to my room and the room won't be airtight.

desertrat said:

first, i would reverse the air flow if you can vent it so that the air goes from the veg room to the flower room and then separately out of the flower room. that lets you put the carbon filter in the flower room where most of the smell is instead of piping smelly air all around.

second, you're going to want to add the co2 to the flowering room. you shut off both venting fans for whatever the recommended period is for your size room (there is a calculator somewhere on this site) during and after adding the co2.

that sound good?

Click to expand...

It certainly does.

desertrat said:

other thoughts
- you may want to add an aircooled hood and ducting for the 400 watt hps -that will reduce your temps and let you get the light down on the plants. that light was a good choice for your space, btw.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what worries me about the HID lights. However, I think I may have a way to do a passthrough from one room, through the light, and into another room, if that becomes necessary. The rooms aren't going to be airtight, so I'm hoping that the cooler air being sucked in from the other places in the basement as part of the ventilation we've been discussing here might help keep temps down.

desertrat said:

- i would seriously consider doing your first grow in soil. you can get all the basics of weed cultivation and your room setup before you add the complexity of hydro. yes, hydro will give you higher yields if you do it right, but its more likely to give you nothing compared to the forgiveness of growing in soil. save hydro for grow number 2.

Click to expand...

I'm doing a soil grow right now, albeit a difficult one in a couple of rubbermaids. The soil has been giving me lots of problems (calcium deficiency, bad pH, etc) so I've certainly learned a lot from that. Definitely a good idea, though.

Floweringfor40 said:

I strongly suggest running separate venting if finances are not an issue for several reasons. .

1. You don’t want to be sucking Co2 out of your flower room every time you exhaust your veg room. Get’s expensive and without a Co2 sniffer it’s likely you’ll be below optimum levels in your flowering room.
2. As your plants increase in size the levels of humidity will also increase requiring more ventilation. With only one exhaust you may have one very dry room and one very wet room, or exhaust that never sleeps which isn’t good.
Food for thought. I’ll include a pic of one of my rooms if I can figure it out.

Click to expand...

floweringfor40 is right if you can afford it and can fit three complete venting systems in the space. however, you can overcome his issues if you plan ahead:

1. this is one of the reasons i suggested changing the direction of the airflow to make the flowering room last in line. that will solve this issue.
2. put another small connection with a fan blowing air from the flowering room to the veg room at the top of the two rooms. this will bring hot air into the veg room and help equalize temps and humidity.

Check out this picture.

(bigger version at bottom of post)




1. This fan pulls in air from outside the grow room, over the lightbulb and cools it down, (this can pull or push air) if you are using the cooltube as a means of venting your grow room it's not going to cool your light because the heat of the growroom is going to keep it hot!

2. The cooltube for your light.

3. This airtight ducting HAS to be airtight in order to pull the hot air that the light produces away from and out of the cool tube.

4. The Carbon filter. This is ment to be completely seperate from your cool tube. You can pull grow room air through this or you can push air through it. Most people recomend you pull smelly grow room air through it and out of the grow room/area.

The diagram is just to give you an idea of what people are talking about.

If you are using your money and buying the equipment, you might as well use it for the correct purpose..

-------------------------------------------

I would personally like to say that you should make a doorway to each room. Not a doorway to the Flowering room through the Veg room.

-------------------------------------------

You have the ambition to do this.
so do it!

Arrid said:

Check out this picture.

(bigger version at bottom of post)

Click to expand...

That picture matches what I had pictured in my head. Thanks for the confirmation!

I would personally like to say that you should make a doorway to each room. Not a doorway to the Flowering room through the Veg room.

Click to expand...

I think that's two votes now for separate doors. It would certainly give me more room in the future if I wanted to expand the tables.

You have the ambition to do this.
so do it!

Click to expand...

Done! I'm picking up lumber today to start building the walls!

Worped said:

That picture matches what I had pictured in my head. Thanks for the confirmation!

I think that's two votes now for separate doors. It would certainly give me more room in the future if I wanted to expand the tables.

Done! I'm picking up lumber today to start building the walls!

Click to expand...

Glad i could have helped.
You making a grow journal?

desertrat said:

first, i would reverse the air flow if you can vent it so that the air goes from the veg room to the flower room and then separately out of the flower room. that lets you put the carbon filter in the flower room where most of the smell is instead of piping smelly air all around.

Click to expand...

as long as the smelly air is contained, it shouldn't be a problem. I would worry more about temps and humidity. the flower room is slightly more important then the veg room. I would pull fresh air into the flower room to help keep the temperature and humidity stable in there, then let the veg room have the second hand air before filtering and venting back out.

Worped said:

Done! I'm picking up lumber today to start building the walls!

Click to expand...

you're gonna post pictures for us, right?

Take a look at www.medical-user.com

Then look at his other shit. www.medical-user.com/the_shed/page_01.htm

See how this Shed was changed.

Peace

Michael

Arrid said:

Glad i could have helped.
You making a grow journal?

Click to expand...

Once I get the room done and I'm ready to start growing, I'll definitely put together a journal.

lorenzo08 said:

you're gonna post pictures for us, right?

Click to expand...

Ask, and ye shall receive. There isn't a whole lot to see yet, since I'm just beginning the construction process, but something is better than nothing, right?

Here's a picture of that starting conditions of the space. I just started putting up the strapping when I took this picture.



The light is exactly where I need to build the separator wall, so I'll be moving that. That's a bathroom on the other side of the wall. If I really wanted to be adventurous, I could tap into the cold water supply, install a tap and have a ready supply of water for mixing solutions right in the grow room itself, rather than having to lug it from the bathroom.

This is the wall where I'll be running the ventilation pipes. I'll just run them under the sewer pipe. Unfortunately, the insulation and strapping that is already there is only about 2.5 inches thick, so I'll actually be building a new wall there so that there's room for the pipes.



Of course, we need to have access to power.



Here's the first wall built and installed:



Strapping finished, light moved, separator wall built and waiting installation (leaning on the right):



Just the front wall left to build, then I can worry about ventilation, hanging up the panda plastic, etc. Hopefully I can get to that this weekend.

People love seeing others develop their grow space.

you should start a grow journal now, and show a step by step of how you're making your room.

I especially love watching peoples grow rooms take shape.

You should definitely do it!


peace and happy growing!

I've got the framing for the walls finally finished. Apart from the 2 days I had to put up strapping, move the light, and build the walls shown above, I typically only manage to get 30 or 60 minutes of free time once or twice a week when I can do noisy stuff like cutting boards or hammering some nails.

Before I post any pics, I'm just wondering now where the best place is to record this information - do it here or start a grow journal (even though it is likely to be a couple of months before I can actually grow anything)?

I don't want to say that money is no object with this endeavor, but I am in a position where I can save up my pennies to do things reasonably correct. I've been debating at what pace I should be proceeding. The "go go go" part of me says to just go out and set up the two rooms and just get moving. The rational part of me is leaning towards taking things slowly, putting together what I need when I need it. I'm leaning towards the latter because I'm not entirely certain exactly what my goals are. All I know right now is that I have a hydroponics itch and I want to grow stuff. I don't know if this will last for 6 months or 6 years.

With that out of the way, I'm definitely looking at 2 ventilation systems, sharing a single exhaust out of the house. If heat from the lighting becomes an issue, I have the opportunity to set up the appropriate ventilation for that as well (based on what was shown earlier).

I'm still looking at a 400/430 HPS for flowering. I may be changing my thinking about fluoros for vegging, but I think I'll use some for a crop or two. This fits into my experimentation goals. If I'm not happy with them, they can be easily sold, with the money going towards some sort of HID.

I've been thinking about table designs for the E&F systems. I'm not sure this is a great idea, but I'm thinking about building 2'x4' tables. This would allow me to start small and provide an easy way to build up in the future, if necessary, by adding another 2'x4' table. The rooms are only 5'x6', so there isn't a lot of maneuvering room around 4'x4'-worth of tables. To help with that, I've been considering putting the tables on casters, which will allow me to roll them back and forth as necessary.

Finding materials to build E&F systems at reasonable prices has NOT been easy. I've managed to get appropriate fittings for the supply/drain of the flood tables and the necessary tubing. Finding suitable submersible pumps has been pretty much impossible. I'll likely have to order those online, unless I can find them at a reasonable price at my local hydro store (I found some for $65, but that is definitely NOT reasonable). I've been looking everywhere for some 24x24x6 plastic tubs/trays for the flood trays, but I have yet to locate any. I have sourced some inexpensive 24x16x6 trays, which would give me 3 trays on a single 2'x4' table instead of 2. Since I want to grow a variety of stuff at the same time, this might not be a bad thing.

There are basically 3 things I want to get done soon: 1) figure out what I might eventually need for ventilation and get appropriate duct work installed from the exhaust to the start of the rooms, 2) install the panda plastic, 3) build two E&F tables.

Any comments are certainly welcome.